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Thread: MT2W:Where are we now??

  1. #31
    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Sorry Cheetach - BI was even less balanced than RTW.
    With rules you were talking about most players would take rome, and rome would be dominating. Every barbarian nation would be destroyed - sooner or faster. Some by archers and plumbatriarii, some by meele rush, some by undefeated cav. We tested that with Fireblade - rome was crushing everything.
    BTW Bersekers were one of most balanced units into WHOLE TOTAL WAR HISTORY. Extremely powerful when good used (but after 1.6 patch berseker hardly killed plumbatriari into meele only), but expensive, vulverable to missiles, charging and you had to kept them into mandess :).
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK
    Sorry Cheetach - BI was even less balanced than RTW.
    With rules you were talking about most players would take rome, and rome would be dominating. Every barbarian nation would be destroyed - sooner or faster. Some by archers and plumbatriarii, some by meele rush, some by undefeated cav. We tested that with Fireblade - rome was crushing everything.
    BTW Bersekers were one of most balanced units into WHOLE TOTAL WAR HISTORY. Extremely powerful when good used (but after 1.6 patch berseker hardly killed plumbatriari into meele only), but expensive, vulverable to missiles, charging and you had to kept them into mandess :).
    You can call me Lional, RTK2Lional that name should be more familiar to you.

    Well, I should have been more clear, I was not taling about 1v1. What you said might hold in 1v1. I was playing mostly 3v3s and in a 3v3 all kind of factions, i.e. chosen axe barbs (burgundii, alemanii, etc), archer heavy barbs (goths) and romans were very useful.

    Zerks were not that costly and any good player would hide them into other troops. Also there was not much time to shoot a rushing enemy anyway. If they were so balanced why were they banned in all competions?
    Lional of Cornwall
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  3. #33

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Cheetah.. does BI still contain no penalty for overlapping friendly units?

  4. #34
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    I do not know the exact stats but if you mean the blobbing exploit that killed vanilla RTW then it is not working in BI. Well, actually you can squize your troops into a small area (perhaps not as much as in RTW) but you wont get that huge advantage that you got in RTW.
    There is still a mild push-through but nothing that cannot be stopped with a few spears in schiltrom. Some ppl will try it I am sure, especially against spread out troops but it is not working against reasonably thick formations.
    On the other hand do not expect a neat 1 on 1 match up of each unit like in MTW where each MAA were carefully matched up. Some ppl might do it, with some units it might worth to do (like plumbatarii) but on most occasions (still talking about 3v3s) it is more like group vs group.
    However, it is not RTW. Brute force push through does not work. Match ups matter, i.e. which group against which one, chosen axes vs plumbatarii is not the same as chosen axes vs spears in schiltrom etc.
    Also, moral is very important. Unlike in MTW2 it is possible to get chainrouts with proper tactics, it is not easy though, brute force push through wont do it unlike in RTW.
    Lional of Cornwall
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  5. #35
    Freedom Fighters Clan LadyAnn's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK
    NO - 18 into 2 lines (8 and 10) units of plumbatriarii come to enemy line, threw 14 plumbas per soldier which kill 90% of enemies and then attack meele, which will rout enemies into 15 seconds.
    It looks like a one-trick army.

    Annie
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  6. #36

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK
    When the units are unbalanced the strategic AI doesn't know which units are unbalanced, but after a while the human player figures out which units work better and will buy more of them giving the human an advantage in the battles

    Here I can't agree. Into Barbarian Invasion Eastern Rome (into single player, when commanded by AI), used great army, which influenced multiplayer a lot.
    They were taking 20 units of plumbatriarii - and it was almost undefeated.
    Ok, but that's just by chance that the AI trained a lot of that particular unit isn't it? I doubt that the strategic AI recognizes that the unit is that effective tactically, although, it might be doing some kind of cost effective analysis, but I doubt it. The strategic and tactical AI's are completely separate in all the Total War games which is something that's supposed to change in ETW.

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  7. #37

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheetah
    I have not seen three styles in any of the other TW games and I played tourney finals (CWB, CWC, TWPL) in all TW games. In MTW the dominant style was well balanced with a few good rusher clans (well actually one: SA).
    The SA clan did win MTW/VI CWC finals with a rush style vs my clan's more balanced style. There was a no artillery rule.

    The three styles: rush, balanced and turtle are also usable in Samurai Wars in both 1v1 and team play which is something that happens when the game system is balanced. (There was some imbalance in original STW which slightly favored the rush style.) In addition, co-ordinating all 16 units individually to make matchups is important because the game mechanics penalize men who have less than 1 meter of space to fight and the RPS is relatively strong. Also, the morale level is optimized to allow enough time for flank attacks to be carried out, but low enough that flanked units will rout which can trigger chain routs as well. This isn't easy gameplay to master despite the relatively small number of unit types, and it might not appeal to players who would rather a gameplay where control of fewer groups is the effective method of play.

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  8. #38

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    MT2W:Where are we now??
    Maybe near the end of total war series. What ever Empires will be, they will be nothing like total wars before. IMO

    Australian section is closed down (after they finished Kingdoms), RTW had new engine, MTW2 had new engine and ETW will have new engine. I guess that what will be left to us is MTW/VI with samurai mod or without, RTW/BI with excellent NTW2 (I doubt that anyone is playing it on MP this days) and MTW2 with retrofit mod. Have you noticed which word is repeating? Mod. Do you know World in Conflict game? When you enter into MP section you have an option to run a mod. A feature which was never provided by CA. I don't doubt that Empires will compleately change total war series. Bad for some and good for others (majority - SP) I guess.

    *I can see Elmo reading this forums from time to time with a smile - long ago he mentioned what might be the future of TW series* ''and there be dragons''
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  9. #39
    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Lional or Cheetach - I'm [SC]KrooK and how about that. Nicks are not playing.

    Do you know why into 3vs3 every fractions were being used.
    Because into most competition there were rule max 1 kind of fraction per team. So you could take 1 roman fraction 1 "axemen" fraction or 1 horse archers fraction.

    I don't know who banned bersekers. I think someone who was in charge into tourneys but did not play BI longer time. Personally I made some test "axemen" barbarians vs rome and almost every time rome won - no care about bersekers.

    Lady Ann - it was one trick, but if one always works why should we need more. Plumbatriari had range about 60 - 80 metres, practically like archers.
    And on 1.4 they had attack 14, sniper precision and dozens of plumbas.
    If you spend 20 % of plumbas on enemy archers, they are down.
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

  10. #40

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK

    Lady Ann - it was one trick, but if one always works why should we need more.

    Yes!!!!!!!!!!!


    lol

  11. #41
    Wolf_NimbleNota Member NimbleNota's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Where are we now?

    Nowhere

  12. #42
    Sideswipe feature king Member shingenmitch2's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    First time back in a bit...

    Nice to see folks like Puzz, Annie, Louis St., and Lionel are still around.

    I stopped after Rome. The big issue for me was that the battles -- which sucked even in SP. The battle-game (the strength and point of the original STW) became almost an afterthought to the overall strategic game (which, even with all the eye candy CA added was still a lesser economic game than the Civilization series).

    With Rome a big problem on the battlefield was that the units ran around almost uncontrollably fast -- like chickens with heads cut off. It became less an exercise in tactical generalship and more a fast mouse-click fest. Also, when units engaged each other their individual fights were over so quickly that any attempt at army tactics was useless. It lost the beautiful pin and flank tactics that were possible with STW1, STW/MI and to a lesser extent with MTW1 -- tactics that made possible the defeat of a more powerful unit by 2 lesser units by having them act in concert. This was something crucially missing in almost all prior wargames and, unfortunately, also with all these later versions of Total War.

    Sadly, with a decline in MP I'm pretty sure the forums declined as well -- the MP built the clans and the clans built the community.

    With all that said, I'm still holding out hope that one day CA will go back to its roots and build a good battle engine that plays well in MP.
    Retreat? Hell, we're just attacking in a different direction...

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  13. #43
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    I just beleve that the MP players here should be more active (I would, but hard to when you have wrist tentidonts ). I know MP isn't great like it was before, but I just think it be better if a lot of us actually stayed and help out, and not complain and leave the TW for good, or leave TW MP but not the fourms.

  14. #44

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    I think you guys should try the new Retrofit Multiplayer.

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=100848


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  15. #45
    Nur-ad-Din Forum Administrator TosaInu's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Hello shingenmitch2.
    Ja mata

    TosaInu

  16. #46
    ..fears no adversary Senior Member Jochi Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Hello shingenmitch2.

    It's been a long time m8.
    R.I.P Great Warrior Ja mata TosaInu


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  17. #47

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    When I get back into MP I am planning on playing the Retrofit MP version. I believe it should be the standard for everyone to jump on board with.

  18. #48
    PapaSmurf Senior Member Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Nice seeing you Mitch, playing anything fun at the moment?

    (since it seems that noone is actually playing MTW2 MP, we might as well turn this forum into an "any other fun game around?" forum, right?)

    Smurfy,
    [FF] Louis St Simurgh / The Simurgh



  19. #49

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    TW is not a MP game anymore. VI was the last one in the serie which could be played online. All the releases after that are for SP.

    If that was not the case, 90% of the MP community would not quit playing it.

    Game is broken (a non-functioning engine with endless bugs and a non-hapening MP) since Rome and the devs do not give a damn about these facts where they are already able to sell 2 million copies to SP customers with every release.

    Ctrl+A and double click enemy. That is how they plan it for the battlefield and MP peeps can go play other games if they don't like it. Selling 300 less copies do not bother them at all. They have two choices: Please MP community of 300 players and loose several hundred thousand SP customers or just ignore the MP and sell millions. Which would you choose if you were the owner of CA?

    If you like campaign, that's fine. You can enjoy TW for a couple of months. If you want MP, just forget it.

    ETW is on the way and that will be an even bigger disaster than Rome for the veterans of the game. All but all will be random in the battlefield. Note these words of mine somewhere. We talk again when it is released.

    Just cope with the fact that TW is a story of the past. Was an epic story -but it is over. Get used to that and move on.
    Last edited by Wolf_Kyolic; 04-07-2008 at 03:01.

  20. #50
    Wolf_Cub Member Khasar's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Sadly ..... I agree with all of the above. It's a real shame that they can't make more of an effort for the MP players. Our voice just seems to get swept under the carpet.

  21. #51

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Who said theyll loose their SP customers customers if they make a better battle engine with better balance? Even SP players complain about balance and exploits, its lazyness, only laziness, and carelessness, as most fanboys will buy it just to see how it is, and they have made their money, even if it sucks ****. Than theyll make flawed patches, the big uplightening was retrofit, but now most players seem to prefer vanilla LOL.

    Many here dont play TW or at least dont M2, so test it and see the main tactic(im not referring, to kyolic that seems, even if not playing it to know the "best" tactic)

  22. #52
    Wolf_Cub Member Khasar's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    The way I see it is they get a budget to complete a game.... So where do you think they will put most of their energy and money?? It stands to reason that that MP will always be the poor relation to SP. And MP's will always be moaning about some imbalance or other.


    I guess most of us will try out Empire in the vain hope that MP will be a balanced
    experience. Then come straight on here and moan about the injustice. The sad reality is that we are haemorrhaging MP's with each release.

  23. #53

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lupu
    Many here dont play TW or at least dont M2, so test it and see the main tactic.
    Why should I do that? I would have to buy a new computer to do that, and my clan won't play M2 online. Nothing that's been posted about M2 + K + "any optional mod you want to include" suggests to me that it would be worth playing even if I got the game for free.

    The codebase of this game has become so large that it is beyond the ability of the company to produce a fully functional game. After the game is released they only fix the stuff that's relatively easy to fix and new bugs are created by that process which proves that the game is beyond their control. Multiplayer suffers very badly as a result of this problem because it requires virtually unflawed functionality and very good playbalance. This project management deficiency became apparent when RTW was released, and they haven't solved the problem yet. Unless management becomes more realistic about what they can achieve with the available resources, the problem is not going to go away.

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  24. #54

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Retrofit mod brings back some VI experience. There are few things like flanking and so on which will be fixed in next addon but overall this mod is very good. Like NTW2 was for RTW. Of course this is not addon like Viking Invasion was yet
    most of the clans are now playing Retrofit.
    ''Constant training is the only Way to learn strategy.''

  25. #55
    Wolf_Cub Member Khasar's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Fenix, I agree that the retrofit mod has improved what was largely a poor rush based experience.... I play retrofit only and to say that most of the clans are playing it may be a bit of a exaggeration. I would however say that there has been an upturn in the numbers of retrofit games in the lobby over the last week or so due to the GS tournament which people seem to be practising for. This in my book is a good thing as It's now easier for me to get a game.

    Now we need a 2v2 tournament open to anyone, with lose regulations to promote game play. Anything that advertises retrofit is a good thing in my book.

  26. #56
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    It's not that the community is dead for Mp as such, just this community. Take a look at clan community sheild they manage to be engaging whilst allowing freeedom and keeping an eye on the behaviour of people. That is why theres no surprise that it transformed from a tournement site to the home of the MP community.

    To be hoenst I would be surprised if this Mp section of the forums got more than 30 veiws a day, let alone some actually meeeningfull posts.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  27. #57
    Member Member Titan of Gaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    To be hoenst I would be surprised if this Mp section of the forums got more than 30 veiws a day, let alone some actually meeeningfull posts.
    Most truthful post this topic tbh lol

  28. #58
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    At One Time this fourm used to be the home of MP, maybe it will become so once agan one day?

  29. #59

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by tibilicus
    It's not that the community is dead for Mp as such, just this community. Take a look at clan community sheild they manage to be engaging whilst allowing freeedom and keeping an eye on the behaviour of people. That is why theres no surprise that it transformed from a tournement site to the home of the MP community.

    To be hoenst I would be surprised if this Mp section of the forums got more than 30 veiws a day, let alone some actually meeeningfull posts.

    Community means the forum posters? Or the players who are present there at the lobby?


    How many players can you see online every night during the week? 40-50? And weekend nights? 60-70? And how many of them play Retrofit? 12-13?

    What a big community that is! Laughable.


    PS: As I stated in my previous post, game is broken seriously and the Retrofit mod tries to fix the balance issues at least and the majority of the tw veterans moved to it. So that is why I refer to it.
    Last edited by Wolf_Kyolic; 04-10-2008 at 02:14.

  30. #60
    Wolf_Cub Member Khasar's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    agreed, it doesn't matter how many are posting it's only ever about how many are playing

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