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Thread: MT2W:Where are we now??

  1. #61
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_Kyolic
    Community means the forum posters? Or the players who are present there at the lobby?


    How many players can you see online every night during the week? 40-50? And weekend nights? 60-70? And how many of them play Retrofit? 12-13?

    What a big community that is! Laughable.


    PS: As I stated in my previous post, game is broken seriously and the Retrofit mod tries to fix the balance issues at least and the majority of the tw veterans moved to it. So that is why I refer to it.

    Argeed with Kyolic also. I mean, I remerber when I started Viking Invasion Back in Early 2004, there would be 200-250 people on MTW/VI. It Differ on the Weekends and days, but it still more then the max number of people now. What is the highest number of people on a TW game today, 80 ot 90 like Kyoilc said?

  2. #62

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    TW is mainly a SP game. MP just doesn't cut it. It will never appeal to the market...

  3. #63

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by tibilicus
    It's not that the community is dead for Mp as such, just this community.
    That's because this community wouldn't accept the degraded multiplayer experience that constitutes the new TW. Original STW had more people playing online than M2TW does now. That means the original MP community was bigger than the current community.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


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  4. #64
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga
    TW is mainly a SP game. MP just doesn't cut it. It will never appeal to the market...

    It used to.... that's what we are saying

  5. #65
    Senior Member Senior Member Tomisama's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga
    TW is mainly a SP game. MP just doesn't cut it. It will never appeal to the market...
    Single Player was the easy money, and the natural path (safe) for developers to take in the beginning. Multiplayer was, and still is an add-on, only existing so that they can have something else to write on the box.

    In that beginning (STW), Multiplayer’s only represented 5% of the buyers, so it was never taken seriously, and never developed to its full potential as an engine to drive sales.

    From my perspective, this was and still is the major shortfall of the Total War series. They missed the big picture of how to sell games, and so have settled for a mediocre place in the market, with mediocre profits, and a mediocre future.

    The concept is simple. People are attracted to crowds. The more people you can get together, the more people will come to see what’s going on (Woodstock, Loto, etc.). Multiplayers are very visible, and a strong Multiplayer community is the best evidence that a game is worth playing. This is true for both other Multiplayer’s, “and” Single Players alike.

    The logic being; that if there are that many people playing it, it must be good!!!
    Last edited by Tomisama; 04-11-2008 at 16:46.
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  6. #66
    ..fears no adversary Senior Member Jochi Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Too true Tomi too true.
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  7. #67
    Member Member Marius Dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    I think most people who played M2:TW eventually realised it was a very poor game and have moved on.

  8. #68

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Marius Dynamite
    I think most people who played M2:TW eventually realised it was a very poor game and have moved on.
    Compared to Rome, MTW2 is a lot better. Well Rome was a joke anyway.

    But if you compare it to the original (MTW1), you find out that it just does not cut out. When you play MTW, it just feels solid where 90% of the resolution taking place has got a logical reason. That 10% chance factor is always there and that is not avoidable at all (initial charges and etc). Yet it is compensatable with player skills and in the past, it never became a huge concern unless you were a bad looser.

    However the chance factor with MTW2 is much more higher than that. I don't want to state a specific ratio but trust me. It is much more higher.

    Even that is enough reason to loose interest with the game.

    Apart from that, the engine does not work properly. CA introduced animations with Rome and at that point units started to react according to their own will instead of the players orders which was the begining of the end.

    Besides that, the number of the bugs that the game contained were countless. There was a petition for a patch and we listed more than 30 bugs demanded to be ironed (may be much more). Go figure it out.

    MTW2 has the same engine as Rome. Just a revised version. So some of the issues that Rome had due to a broken engine are obviously still present there. And it contains many bugs as well.

    So when you compare MTW2 to MTW1, you simply find out that MTW2 is way inferior. Only area it excels is the graphics and that is when you zoom in. Zoomed out, it is easier to identify units in MTW1.

    However it is a fact that MTW1 feels "old" after this point when you compare its design structure and design quality to the other recent games in the market. It just does not feel high end. So "then let's go back to MTW1" approach won't work at all.

    Unfortunatly, CA simply cannot manage to bring it together. When game play is there, the high end feel is missing and when it is there, (sort of) this time the game play is missing. It is always "wait till the next release" since Rome and upto now there has been 3 releases (BI, MTW2 and Kingdoms) which failed utterly and dissapointed the veterans of the game. And none of those releases were "free". People paid for their broken games.

    As I always tell; right game, wrong company.

    Returning back to the quote; yes, MTW2 is a poor game. Just the eye candy and that is all. It just does not feel right if you know what the real concept of the game is and how the mechanics should work (Shogun and MTW1). Originally TW is about skills (unit control, micro management, speed, making quick and right decisions and etc) and using your brain and creativity (tactics and depth). MTW2 lacks that depth which MTW1 and Shogun had. It lacks that because to have that, you need a perfect engine which is "operating". And it has to be bug free as well. MTW2 is too far from that. And yet devs try to avoid complexity on purpose because the game has to reach to masses.

    Retrofit mod which the community plays makes everything a bit better to a degree but that is all. Modifying your Ford Focus does not turn it into a Ferrari no matter how hard core the modding is.
    Last edited by Wolf_Kyolic; 04-12-2008 at 11:59.

  9. #69

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    It used to.... that's what we are saying
    TW MP never appealed to mass market...Even at its best...

  10. #70
    Wolf_Cub Member Khasar's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga
    TW MP never appealed to mass market...Even at its best...

    If you are talking about everyone who buys that game then yes as I have said SP has a bigger following. What I am saying is that MP had a larger following than it does now.... far larger.

    The anticipation through the community for RTW was unbelievable. We'd all seen the graphics and we were awaiting it with baited breath. It was a real shame when we were let down so badly on gameplay.

    This thread is about dissatisfied MP's I'm not interested in the "mass market" SP side of the game


  11. #71

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    If you are talking about everyone who buys that game then yes as I have said SP has a bigger following. What I am saying is that MP had a larger following than it does now.... far larger.

    The anticipation through the community for RTW was unbelievable. We'd all seen the graphics and we were awaiting it with baited breath. It was a real shame when we were let down so badly on gameplay.

    This thread is about dissatisfied MP's I'm not interested in the "mass market" SP side of the game
    read man! i said TW MP never appealed to the MASS market. I know it had larger following in the past... but it never appealed to the MASS market.

  12. #72

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga
    read man! i said TW MP never appealed to the MASS market. I know it had larger following in the past... but it never appealed to the MASS market.

    As far as I know, MTW2 sold around 2 million copies.

  13. #73

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    As far as I know, MTW2 sold around 2 million copies.
    Yeah but how many people are in the multilayer foyer nowadays? Again I am talking about MP not SP. This game (MP) is stale. MP didn't change from the days of STW...which is sad really...

  14. #74

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    BTW how come u guys are fixated on this game? As far as my experience go other RTS games (warcraft/starcraft/age series/war hammer 40K/Company of Heroes..) provide a better much more deep MP experience...

  15. #75
    Senior Member Senior Member Tomisama's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga
    TW MP never appealed to mass market...Even at its best...
    No Total War game was ever developed intentionally for, or promoted to the mass market as multiplayer, so how can you say they never appealed to the mass market?


    For an example only:

    January 25, 2007
    SAGA Breaks Open the New Era of RTS Gaming

    Saga, a new Massively-Multiplayer Online Real-time Strategy (MMORTS) game from Wahoo Studios, is set to revolutionize the way RTS games are played.

    “The biggest innovation happening right now is that battles aren't self-contained anymore … You build up your armies and you carry them forward from battle to battle … Injecting a little RPG element into your army is the future.”- IGN article entitled “The State of the RTS”, April 7, 2006

    According to IGN’s recent article, the future of RTS is persistency. The present of RTS is playing for a few hours, building a mighty city and army, amassing resources and money, all just to have the session suddenly end in victory or defeat, game over, sorry try again, start from scratch…

    Saga brings persistency to RTS gaming. You build cities and armies to defend and manage a persistent online kingdom in a persistent fantasy world. When you’re offline, your kingdom continues to function; your guild wars progress as your friends and teammates play, your resources continue collecting, your kingdom continues to defend against enemy assassins and espionage missions…

    “Think World of Warcraft from a thousand feet up… instead of having just a character, you own hundreds of troops and fight massive battles against other players,” says Jason Faller, Saga Creator and Executive Producer.

    Saga’s features include military questing, an auction house for trading troops and spells, guild wars, espionage, and more. Kingdoms and armies gain permanent experience that carries forward perpetually for a more realistic and more exciting RTS experience.

    Additionally, Saga brings the excitement of collectible gaming to the online environment. Rather than pay subscription fees, in Saga you pay as little or as much as you decide. Just as in collectible card or miniatures games, players can buy ‘booster packs’ of random troops and spells, which are traded and customized to create the strategic army of choice for each player.

    Saga is the future, and for that matter, the not-so-distant future; internal Alpha testing is under way; closed Alpha testing begins late January, signups beginning immediately. Saga is slated for Beta release in Spring 2007. Visit http://www.playsaga.com for details and further information.

    About Wahoo Studios, Inc. - Wahoo Studios is a leading independent developer of PC and console games. Based in Orem, Utah, Wahoo Studios has worked with the top game publishers, creating outstanding titles for all age groups and all platforms. Under their NinjaBee label, Wahoo Studios has also developed several critically acclaimed titles for the Xbox Live Arcade downloadable market.
    http://www.mpogd.com/news/?ID=2351

    To bad it wasn’t a Total War game
    Last edited by Tomisama; 04-12-2008 at 17:00.
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  16. #76

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    i said TW MP never appealed to the mass market not TW MP can never appeal to the mass market. Although I think that TW MP in its current state can't (in no way) compete with other (RTS) MP games.

    Magazine/Game Websites articles are all hype and marketing we all know that. They count for nothing. As an example RTW scored on all game magazines/game websites more than STW/MTW... And we know that RTW is a crap game...

  17. #77
    Senior Member Senior Member Tomisama's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga
    BTW how come u guys are fixated on this game? As far as my experience go other RTS games (warcraft/starcraft/age series/war hammer 40K/Company of Heroes..) provide a better much more deep MP experience...
    I am presently checking out Company of Heroes, hoping to find what I personally want in a multiplayer game.

    Thanks Nobu
    Last edited by Tomisama; 04-13-2008 at 02:02.
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  18. #78
    Senior Member Senior Member Tomisama's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_Kyolic
    Retrofit mod which the community plays makes everything a bit better to a degree but that is all. Modifying your Ford Focus does not turn it into a Ferrari no matter how hard core the modding is.
    I agree

    But if you are going to try to make the best of the situation, be sure you understand that there are “two” Retrofit mods (Retrofit 1.0 and Retrofit MP).

    They are completely separate Kingdom mods (MP does not require 1.0).

    Retrofit MP is the one you want for the best multiplayer version.

    Apparently the latest patch (Kingdoms v1.5 ) upgrades the original Kingdom mods ( Britannia, Crusades, Teutonic, and Americas), but does not effect any of the other mods.

    So if you have Medieval II Kingdoms, and the Retrofit MP mod, I believe you have everything you need for the best multiplayer experience you can get with this game.

    Have fun
    Last edited by Tomisama; 04-13-2008 at 13:28.
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  19. #79

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomisama
    So if you have Medieval II Kingdoms, and the Retrofit MP mod, I believe you have everything you need for the best multiplayer experience you can get with this game.
    Which is very limited.

  20. #80
    Master of Puppets Member hellenes's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga
    BTW how come u guys are fixated on this game? As far as my experience go other RTS games (warcraft/starcraft/age series/war hammer 40K/Company of Heroes..) provide a better much more deep MP experience...
    But are mere dumbed down DUne2 clo(w)nes....
    Impunity is an open wound in the human soul.


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  21. #81
    Senior Member Senior Member Tomisama's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    A new face in town?

    XIII Century: Death or Glory

    http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...?mode=gsreview

    XIII Century: Death or Glory First Impressions
    With gameplay that's comparable to the Total War games, XIII Century will let you relive the great battles of the early Middle Ages.
    By Jason Ocampo, GameSpot
    Posted Apr 20, 2007 7:54 pm GMT
    If you took the popular Total War strategy games, stripped out their overarching turn-based strategic layer, and kept the awesome real-time battles, the resulting game would look a lot like XIII Century: Death or Glory, a real-time tactical game from 1C and developer Unicorn Games Studios that's about the brutal era of medieval warfare.

    XIII Century is a game that's about battles, and nothing but battles. It will feature more than 30 of them, divided into five campaigns that cover European history. These include notable battles such as Bouvines, Falkirk, Las Navas de Tolosa, and Lake Peipus, a legendary battle in Russian history that was fought on the surface of a frozen lake. All of the battles aim to historically reconstruct as much as possible, from accurate depictions of the landscape and terrain to the weather conditions and the colorful heraldry of the participants. Of course, how the battle unfolds will be up to you and your skills.

    Just looking at the screenshots will tell you that the battles in XIII Century look and feel a lot like those found in Total War. At your command will be a wide range of units, from simple warriors and archers to light cavalry to different types of knights. Each faction has its own unique factions and specialties, as well. For instance, the French have some of the best mounted units in the game with its knights, while the Welsh have the best archers. Meanwhile, the Mongols also make an appearance, and Mongolian cavalry are incredibly swift. These units are armed with the appropriate weapons and equipment, according to historical research.

    All of your units will be divided into formations, which is the basic control unit on the battlefield. You simply click on a formation and click somewhere on the map to tell it to move there, or click on an enemy formation to tell it to attack. Selecting multiple formations and click-dragging the mouse lets you play with different formation options on the battlefield, so you can put your foot soldiers in line to face an enemy charge or position your archers in the back of the formation for protection. Victory will go to those commanders that use their units wisely and maneuver them effectively on the battlefield.

    The scale of the action is comparable to that of Rome or Medieval: Total War, as you can easily have hundreds, if not thousands, of units on the screen at one time. The visuals are sharp and detailed, and there are subtle variations between each man on the battlefield. If you like medieval warfare tactics, then XIII century is a game worth checking out when it ships. 1C hasn't announced a specific release date, but it is scheduled to ship later this year.

    -GameSpot
    http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...169432&mode=pr
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  22. #82

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Multiplayer is something of a lost cause at present, as it supports only direct IP connections (although a patch providing access to a matchmaking server is apparently in the works).
    No MP as yet.

  23. #83

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    But are mere dumbed down DUne2 clo(w)nes....
    Not really. To get a feeling on what I am saying just read this article (from www.wcreplays.com - It is written by a pro warcraft 3 gamer called sky and translated by someone named "LCeh".

    Originally Posted by Sky
    This is my first time writing such a commentary, and I had always wanted to do one. Because this is my own game, I especially like to write according to what I was thinking at the time, so please let me know if there is anything I can improve (on writing).

    This is the first match against FoV in the WC3L series. Map is TS. I was a bit surprised to see Fov assigned to TS, as I was expecting Check. Nonetheless, I had to come up with a strategy before going into the game. (I lost to FoV on this map during IEF about a month ago, so I did a lot of preparation for this match)

    Knowing FoV, he should be going panda to counter my Paladin first hero strategy. So I wanted to confirm it by sending a footman to scout, because I can only decide on a strategy if I know which hero he is using. For each hero there is a different counter, so this is important.

    So once I knew he was going panda, my strategy was to creep the merch, don't build too many footmen, no expansion and fast tech to t3 and use tri hero to fight late game. This is because panda is very good against t1 units, so against panda I decide to go t3+tri hero, more to work with. Creeping this camp will allow me to get to lvl 3 quickly, as well as hiring the trollls.

    After creeping the merc, I went to shop to look for boots of speed and staff of teleportation, and then go to his base and see if there are any injured ghouls I can HL. This is to disrupt UD, and at the same time, creep with footman to level up Paladin. Once I hit t2, I go t3 immediately to get knights. Meanwhile, I do whatever I can to harass Fov. My goal was to take out as many acos as possible, slow down his economy and gain a bigger advantage.

    Once I get my knights and tri hero, I continue to harass with my paladin while leveling up my MK and BM. (Fov also tried to counter harrass by zepplin dropping in my base, but because I already built some towers to counter his panda, FoV's harassment did not do much). Since my paladin has been in his base this whole time, I know a lot about his army and his positioning. Knowing that I have a bigger army than he does, I decided to expand. (I tried engaging him in his base for a little bit, but was not able to gain any advantage, so I backed out and expand to build on my lead instead of fighting in his base)

    Once expo's up, FoV knows it as well. From FoV's pov, he would probably want to engage in a fight as soon as possible, so I was not in a hurry to engage him and waited at my base. And so, not long after, he came, but due to his impaired economy and his lower hero level, he was not able to succeed.



    Summary: In a game like this, Hu vs UD is more about the battle of the mind and strategies than anything else. It's about who can choose the right strategy and execute it better in the game. If you can take control of dynamics, then you are not far from winning. Therefore, it is safe to say that many times, in these matches between pros, it's about the battle of the combination of mind and the micro/macro execution.

  24. #84

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Dont get me wrong guys I love the TW series. STW was really innovative and had gr8 potential. But the MP was alway broken / full of exploits / full of bugs. For instance route bug in STW (i even suffered from this in SP) / fatigue rates in MTW / RTW / MTW2.

    Many options/changes should be added to this game to make the MP worth playing. For example CA can add strategic points on the map and/or the ability to get additional troops during battle...

    MP in its current state is just not worth it...

  25. #85

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    btw anybody have an idea where longjohn is working now? The guy is really brilliant.

  26. #86
    Senior Member Senior Member Tomisama's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_Kyolic
    No MP as yet.
    Direct only (with static IP) at present, but they will have a server up and 2v2 available soon. Who knows what the future will bring?

    What I see here is that their aim is clear. They are building a better game, and going to provide the design and development focus to the battle mechanics that the Total War series has completely lost sight of.

    I would rather support someone who is “trying” to make a game that I want to play, rather than wasting my time and money on someone who doesn’t care what I want.

    Time for truth! This has been a seven year down hill spiral, and I am tired of hoping it gets better, because it never does
    Last edited by Tomisama; 04-14-2008 at 12:53.
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  27. #87
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomisama
    Direct only (with static IP) at present, but they will have a server up and 2v2 available soon. Who knows what the future will bring?

    What I see here is that their aim is clear. They are building a better game, and going to provide the design and development focus to the battle mechanics that the Total War series has completely lost sight of.

    I would rather support someone who is “trying” to make a game that I want to play, rather than wasting my time and money on someone who doesn’t care what I want.

    Time for truth! This has been a seven year down hill spiral, and I am tired of hoping it gets better, because it never does

    Argeed, But Maybe one day when all the MP players start leaving, then they make a better MP for TW. But again, mabye not

  28. #88

    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomisama
    Time for truth! This has been a seven year down hill spiral, and I am tired of hoping it gets better, because it never does
    I mirror your sentiments, Tomi and it's one reason I did not buy Kingdoms. I've given up playing TW, like Kyolic said, it was fun but now it's history

    ........Orda

  29. #89
    Wolf_Cub Member Khasar's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Well I hope that the retrofit tournaments that are currently being played will get a few players across from Vanilla and that we can start to rebuild the mp community. I suppose that there is not much point moaning about it we either play TW in one form or another or we don't, people will vote with their feet.

  30. #90
    ..fears no adversary Senior Member Jochi Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: MT2W:Where are we now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Khasar
    Well we either play TW in one form or another or we don't, people will vote with their feet.
    They already have.
    R.I.P Great Warrior Ja mata TosaInu


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    --call it conscience--
    not just according to society's knowledge and judgement of your deeds.

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