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Thread: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

  1. #1
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Please post all your gripes, critiques and suggestions for future vesrion here.
    While I do not promise that all your suggestions will be implemented, I will get back to them and explain my reasoning. Please understand that while I value all suggestions and will definitely consider them, as the author I do have a vision for this modification as well.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions (FAQ) Thread

    Heya,

    Do you have any plans on expanding this and incorporating a new map and possibly skins?

  3. #3
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frequently asked questions (FAQ) Thread

    Thanks for the suggestion,

    Yes I would be interested in making the map larger, however I would still offer a standard map version in addition for download for those who don't want a larger one, therefore having 2 somewhat different versions of VanillaMod.

    If you are interested in making a larger map, you could have a chat with Warluster who offered to make one currently.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Hello there!

    I think the AI is getting too much money! The armies it is constructing are large even though it has less settlements than me and is losing the war.

    I think you should limit the amount of florins a faction receives.

    Thanks!

  5. #5

    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Hello again!

    Checked some files and noticed that you are giving each faction 8000 florins a turn!

    That is way too much. I limited that to 1000 as long they have less than 20000.

    Now I understand why my enemies are sending wave after wave of armies consisting of 2 full stacks every 3 or so turns! TOO HARD!

  6. #6
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Hiya,

    They get between 4000 and 8000 but normally will not attack you until turn 11 the earliest, and even then only if your relations are truly bad with them. Alliances last fairly long, so if you can convince them to be on your side early on, that is an advantage.

    I will look into your claim that they are getting too much however, and see if I can split it into 4000 early on and 8000 later on. That will not be until at least a week from now though as I will lose access to M2TW for a week due to repairs.
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  7. #7
    Beauty hunter Senior Member Raz's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    I don't suppose this is possible but I'll ask it anyway. About those injections of money, is there a way of using the AI's provinces to calculate how many Florins are given? Say they own four cities, multiply four by 1500 and thats how many Florins that are injected. That combined with the "no florins after 70,000" would make for some interesting gameplay.
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  8. #8
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Hmmm I don't think multiplications (or calculations in general) work in the campaign_scipt. What is possible is to give a set amount per settlement for instance, but that would require 4 lines of code for each settlement, and even when capping this at 30 settlements, that would be 120 extra lines of code per faction and really bloat the file. Might even break it possibly...

    What I could do (to keep the code to a minimum) is to stratify it, so that 1-2 gets X 3-6 gets +Y etc. I'll consider that for the next release. Thanks for your suggestion
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  9. #9
    The Idle Inquisitor Member rebelscum's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Playing Russia I ran into some huge rebel stacks around Moscow, are you sure that the rebels aren't getting a bit too much money?
    Its costing me a load of resources to wipe them out, and I probably wont be able to withstand the mongol horde at this rate. Good job making it harder though.
    I took Moscow with a full stack over two battlws by waiting until the rebel stacks had started romaing. Which is a good thing, is this something else the mod has introduced, I'm used to rebel stacks coming and plonking themselves in my territory rather than defending their own.
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  10. #10
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Yup, I modded the rebels so that they can build buildings and hire units as if they were their own faction. When rebels have many provinces, their funds are split accordingly and thus each province is defended mediocrely well. Once they are down to a few, they also get less cash, but each province will be defended heavily.

    The advantage the player still has over rebels is that rebels have inherently lower morale and you don't need to chase down a rebel stack to defeat it. If a rebel stack involved in a battle loses, it disappears.

    I'll see what I can do in terms of maybe lowering their cash amount though without making them the usual walk in the park.
    Last edited by FactionHeir; 03-11-2008 at 15:34.
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  11. #11
    The Idle Inquisitor Member rebelscum's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Yes that would be great. You can probably tell by the name I'm a rebel fan. Have you adjusted the bribary chances of rebels as per other factions, I know you have made bribary work, but I think Rebels should be a bit easier to bribe. You could make them cost about the same as mercs. I suppose how bribable they are depends on how strongly their cause, if you are a despotic leader, you could make the bribable chances a bit lower. On another, note, one persons rebels are another persons allies. Maybe the bribable chance could depend on how close the rebels origin settlement was to your eniemies. Ooh its so complex ;)
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  12. #12

    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Can you please do something to make gunners (who are defending the castle) able to shoot off walls correctly and straight? :)

  13. #13
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by soulbreaker360
    Can you please do something to make gunners (who are defending the castle) able to shoot off walls correctly and straight? :)
    Sadly gunners will only be able to shoot at targets lower than them off the castle walls if they shoot into the air due to the way they are coded, and I'm not sure if that would be desired. They will however shoot from the walls correctly at targets that are on a near even level (some city battles have internal battlements which are optimal for gunners to shoot at the external battlements)
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  14. #14
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelscum
    Yes that would be great. You can probably tell by the name I'm a rebel fan. Have you adjusted the bribary chances of rebels as per other factions, I know you have made bribary work, but I think Rebels should be a bit easier to bribe. You could make them cost about the same as mercs. I suppose how bribable they are depends on how strongly their cause, if you are a despotic leader, you could make the bribable chances a bit lower. On another, note, one persons rebels are another persons allies. Maybe the bribable chance could depend on how close the rebels origin settlement was to your eniemies. Ooh its so complex ;)
    The problem with bribery is that it is a few variables that apply globally and cannot be tied to specific factions, so one can't make rebels much more difficult to bribe than normal factions without making everyone too easy to bribe.
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  15. #15
    The Idle Inquisitor Member rebelscum's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Does this also apply to diplomacy? Diplomacy is one of my pet peeves since MTWI. The main issue is, some factions are ultimately out to get you, so diplomacy leads nowhere. Whilst some factions are quite amiable. One thing I've noticed in your mod is that princesses seem to be much more active, and their appearance is slightly more prolific. I agree with the limitation on the production of diplomats, most of us know from MTWI, RTW its a pain to have a lot of diplomats camped around Rome and your major city, and I usually have a roaming diplomat and a Rome camper. I've got some diplomats maxed out and still have been uable to make some factions see sense, offering cities, cash, map information. Money should be more of a major factor in diplomacy and everybody should have a price.
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  16. #16
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    In diplomacy, several faction specific factors play a role: Whether it is a shadow faction, whether they are of the same religion as you and the current standings/reputations.

    However, as you can see those aren't really specific to any one faction. Other variables do depend on monetary value and have been modified to make diplomacy more useful, but I didn't want to make florins too useful either, where you can buy half of someone's empire for 100k. While this isn't inherently a problem with humans (you can reject the offer) the AI just works by balancing numbers and will accept any offer (save military access and sometimes map info - seems to be an engine issue that doesn't let me fix these to display as the others to the fullest extent) that is rated generous or better.

    Oh, and making factions your vassal only works if they want to be your vassal, i.e. are not a shadow faction and don't have a lot of allies that are all at war with you. You also need to be bordering their regions and have significantly more military prowess than them and their allies combined.
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  17. #17
    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
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    Default

    Shadow Faction?

    Only suggestion I have is 2h Animations, if they arent fixed (I havent used 2 handers yet)

    Make all ancilleries transferrable?
    Last edited by FactionHeir; 04-20-2008 at 10:47.
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  18. #18
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Yeah, the animations aren't fixed because the ones currently out there are too strong (i.e. faster than 1H) or don't fit (halberd animation for 2H).
    I've tweaked their stats though so they should be useful at times in melee against infantry while still being decent cav killers, but not overly so.

    You are the second person to suggest transferrable ancillaries. I'll bring out an alt version for those of you who want all to be tranferrable in a bit.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    hey i was wondering would it be feasible to change the year passed per turn from 2 years to 1 year. generals age 6 months per turn (correct me if im wrong) so i thought it would be more in sync. increasing build times and cost would balance the time difference. i was thinking of changing that in my game but i do not know how to do it. could anyone teach me?

  20. #20
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Please have a look here. I already posted a quick 1tpy script there

    Since you have Vista, please ensure that after placing all three files into your imperial_campaign folder, you delete any hidden stuff of the old files you need to overwrite. Also, you need to start a new game for it to take effect.
    Last edited by FactionHeir; 07-08-2008 at 18:14.
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  21. #21
    Member Member Johan217's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Only three suggestions really:
    - include Kingdoms features Boiling oil, Control reinforcements and Hotseat like in the Retrofit mod
    - include the Historical Character Names mod
    - correct some spelling/language errors, mostly in diplomacy_speech.txt.strings.bin

    If those seem like nitpicks it's because VanillaMod includes everything I want :)

    One change I would like to make is to have characters age more realistically, like 1 year per turn (still not in pace with the game, but better at least). There is a script that does this, but it also makes devastation on the campaign map permanent. You can get around this by changing devastation parameters in descr_campaign_db.xml, but I think this only works for Kingdoms. Hence my first suggestion.

    BTW Love the work you did on the character traits! I just wish there was a way to limit them

  22. #22
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Hello and welcome to VanillaMod

    Unfortunately your first point cannot be done as it requires Kingdoms. I have vowed that this mod will never require Kingdoms so all those non Kingdoms players have a mod they can have fun with that is up to the standard of other Kingdoms mods.

    I have been considering including the CNP, but finneys has been rather uncooperative with fixing bugs in his mod (CTD and missing names) or providing more information on it, so its currently out until that situation changes.

    Not aware of diplomacy text bugs but then I hardly ever read them. Let me know when you get them (i.e. with which faction, talking to which faction about what and their response) or a rough outline of what was said so I can track it down and fix it.

    Aging characters 1 year per turn is only possible by making the campaign stay always in winter mode, so that is not really a great option sadly
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  23. #23
    Member Member Johan217's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir View Post
    Unfortunately your first point cannot be done as it requires Kingdoms. I have vowed that this mod will never require Kingdoms so all those non Kingdoms players have a mod they can have fun with that is up to the standard of other Kingdoms mods.
    Fair enough :)

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir View Post
    I have been considering including the CNP, but finneys has been rather uncooperative with fixing bugs in his mod (CTD and missing names) or providing more information on it, so its currently out until that situation changes.
    I did some work on the CNP too. I've merged it into my VanillaMod installation and I haven't seen any CTD's yet. I might have a look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir View Post
    Not aware of diplomacy text bugs but then I hardly ever read them. Let me know when you get them (i.e. with which faction, talking to which faction about what and their response) or a rough outline of what was said so I can track it down and fix it.
    I'll have another look at the files and let you know.

    A few things I found:
    - Muslim characters can get crusader knights as ancillary, which seems inappropriate to me, since they give command/security bonuses
    - I have also seen muslim imams with the "bishop" trait.

  24. #24
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Are you sure you haven't modded some files?
    Since 0.91 at least (probably since 0.9) the triggers are as follows:

    Code:
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger knight_crusader_vnv_trigger
        WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
        Condition AgentType = priest
              and I_CrusadeInProgress
              and IsRegionCrusadeTarget
              and CharacterReligion catholic
              and TimeInRegion > 1
    
        AcquireAncillary knight_crusader chance  33 
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Code:
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger priestinit4
        WhenToTest AgentCreated
    
        Condition AgentType = priest
              and SettlementBuildingExists >= cathedral
              and Trait PriestLevel = 0
    
        Affects PriestLevel  1  Chance  100 
        Affects NaturalPriestSkill  1  Chance  10 
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger priestinit4_orthodox
        WhenToTest AgentCreated
    
        Condition AgentType = priest
              and SettlementBuildingExists >= cathedral_o
              and Trait PriestLevel = 0
    
        Affects PriestLevel  1  Chance  100 
        Affects NaturalPriestSkill  1  Chance  10 
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger priestinit4b
        WhenToTest AgentCreated
    
        Condition AgentType = priest
              and SettlementBuildingExists >= jama
    
        Affects NaturalPriestSkill  1  Chance  50 
        Affects Dogmatic  1  Chance  50 
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    So as you see, muslims cannot get Bishop nor crusader knights.
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  25. #25
    Member Member Johan217's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir View Post
    Are you sure you haven't modded some files?
    Uhm... possibly

  26. #26
    Member Member Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Thought I might add a few minor gripes & suggestions.

    I do get a lot of Papal elections, something in the order of every 3-4 turns. Wow! Imagine the repetitive scenario Pope calling a crusade on an excommunicated faction capital or maybe Rome and 3 turns later the crusade is cancelled. I would like to see more papal elections so that factions aren't excommunicated for pro-longed periods but perhaps something between vanilla and vanillamod setting would be ideal. BTW which file do I mod to change this?

    The guild offers don't seem to have any logic. The first guild I get offered was a Templars and never was on a crusade. I kind off liked the vanilla settings as it gave some faction specific guilds or at least guilds that are more likely to appear with certain factions. With vanillamod I have more or less each & every guild offered and I feel this reduces challenge b/c its the player which ends up with a headquarters for almost everything. It also reduces inter-faction guild diversity.

    Not too much else that I have come across to gripe about. I did however restore normal build times as I do prefer a slower paced game.

    Very dynamic campaign map with key settlements constantly changing ownership and power waxing & waning among factions.

  27. #27
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Hmmm not sure how to address those, but I'll try

    Papal elections: How far are you in your campaign that they happen so frequently? How many cardinals do you have? I haven't changed anything with the papal elections so I'm wondering if it could just be the starting cardinals taking turns at becoming pope and they all being around 60 years old by then. I suppose if you want more elections, you want to reduce the max age of characters from the default value and/or make it even harder to get priestly traits (->fewer cardinals)

    Guilds: Some settlements have a high base chance of getting a guild historically. Those will mostly always end up with a certain guild unless you reject it the first time or so. As for the rest, they are based on points. Even in the unmodded game, you could get templars and the other order chapters if you did not partake in a crusade. In fact I think I raised the importance of crusading relatively. Still, another factor with orders is that they tend to appear more often in regions bordering other factions of a different religion and if you are declaring war against islamic faction or have a high chivalry governor for a given settlement. Overall, I rebalanced the points needed for each guild and what allows you to obtain a certain guild to prevent the AI ending up with only thieves and merchants guilds.

    Let me know if there's something else in specific that you feel could be improved though.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
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    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
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  28. #28
    Member Member Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir View Post

    Papal elections: How far are you in your campaign that they happen so frequently? How many cardinals do you have? I haven't changed anything with the papal elections so I'm wondering if it could just be the starting cardinals taking turns at becoming pope and they all being around 60 years old by then.

    I'm on about turn 80 but I doubt I have many cardinals as I only recruit priests on a need to basis. Exactly how many I'm not sure as I don't pay much attention to this part of the game. Guess its just a freak then.

    Guilds: Some settlements have a high base chance of getting a guild historically. Those will mostly always end up with a certain guild unless you reject it the first time or so. As for the rest, they are based on points. Even in the unmodded game, you could get templars and the other order chapters if you did not partake in a crusade. In fact I think I raised the importance of crusading relatively. Still, another factor with orders is that they tend to appear more often in regions bordering other factions of a different religion and if you are declaring war against islamic faction or have a high chivalry governor for a given settlement. Overall, I rebalanced the points needed for each guild and what allows you to obtain a certain guild to prevent the AI ending up with only thieves and merchants guilds.
    I'm aware its based on points but in a vanilla game I would only be ever offered Templars if I rejected St Johns a couple of times and been on at least 1 crusade. Its unusual b/c it was the first guild offered. Another example would be Portugal having a woodsmen guild before the English. Heaven forbid!

    In the vanilla game I had good success reducing the AI having only thieves guild by removing the Spy-on-settlement trigger and by reducing points for spy missions. This gave AI majority merchants & explorers guilds.

  29. #29
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    Its chance based really if both guild requirements are met. Which faction did you play and what factions did you border, and the settlement where you were offered the templars was bordering which settlements? What governor did it have?

    Regarding woodsmen, in the unmodded game only England could get it. Now any faction can (but only England can get the unit from the building) if they recruit tons of missile troops.

    I played around with removing some spying triggers early on before releasing the mod and as you describe, the outcome wasn't great with the AI just getting explorer and merchants guilds. With the current system, it can get unit guilds which actually result in it having stronger units to send against you and the woodsmen/swordsmith guilds will make battles tougher too, so I can't really complain
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  30. #30
    Member Member Johan217's Avatar
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    Default Re: VanillaMod Suggestions thread

    In the bug thread I read something about obsolete units. Maybe it's an idea to tie recruitment to in-game events.

    E.g.:
    Code:
    recruit_pool "Mailed Knights"  1   0.2   2  0  requires factions { england, scotland, france, hre, spain, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states, sicily, } and not event_counter gunpowder_discovered 1
    This way, no more new units of Mailed knights after a certain point. A bit like the Marian reforms in RTW :-)
    I think this would definitely be an option for ballista's and catapults, that are basically useless for sieges as walls become stronger later in the game. Same for "era-specific" units like mailed and feudal knights. Also, maybe link late units like arquebusiers, and cannon to an event well after 1400. I get the impression they are available too soon after the gunpowder event, so there is not much point in the early bombard or gunner units.

    Maybe also revisit the mercenary pool. Landsknecht Pikemen seem to be available from 1170 onwards, which is way too early (you may easily add 200 years to that). Same for mercenary arquebusiers, that are available right after the gunpowder event.

    And finally a trick I used in my install: remove all ships for the Papal States. I got tired of the Pope conquering African shores. Now he stays - more or less - where he belongs.

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