Grail Knights vs Blood Knights?

[Jonlissla]

Please, Bwian, don't let those bloodsuckers take away the wonderful shock value from the Grail Knights! Even though people say that BKs are better (yeah yeah, they might be better, but they got Frenzy, and are alot more expensive), don't let the GKs fall into the darkness! Alteast make them equally strong!



For those of you who don't know; the Blood Knights are a new unit for the newly updated Vampire Counts. They are stronger (almost ) than the Grail Knights, but since I'm a hardcore Bretonnia fan, I don't like them at all (yes, I'm a Warhammer-fanatic). It wouldn't really give Bretonnia the "Super-Shock Cavalry" title, but would rather turn it over to the VC. Even if it's just one unit, it might make a difference.

[Silly Knicket]

The AI has a tendency of overusing good units, so if the VK's get an awesome cavalry unit, expect to see a lot of them if controlled by the AI...

[Di Asturien]

Well all cavalry is being seriously buffed up in this edition, so im sure Bretonnia will get quite a nice treatment in our next army book.
I think Grail Knights should be equally good, the best cavalry army in the game should have the best cavalry unit no?

[alexader]

i think not,we are ought to make the blood dragons the best unit in the game,and it will be the best!!!!!!muahahahahahhahahahahaahha
so i will say to you,to accept this fact that the blood dragons shall be the greatest(because i will remember you,that this thread is spam)you even could tell this on the brettonian or vampire counts......whatever,the blood dragons shall prevail,and they are not a new unit,the exist from the past,as the greatest knights,and now will even pass the chaos knghts.

[Lordy]

Well all cavalry is being seriously buffed up in this edition, so im sure Bretonnia will get quite a nice treatment in our next army book.
I think Grail Knights should be equally good, the best cavalry army in the game should have the best cavalry unit no?

Not when High Elf Silver Helms are Dragon Princes are superior to them no..

[Jonlissla]

Well all cavalry is being seriously buffed up in this edition, so im sure Bretonnia will get quite a nice treatment in our next army book.
I think Grail Knights should be equally good, the best cavalry army in the game should have the best cavalry unit no?

Agreed. It wouldn't make any sense at all. It's like giving Chaos a suoer-mega-crossbowman or something, that excels in ranged combat. Chaos has the best close-comabt infantry, Skaven got the numbers, Imperials are a good mix of everthing, and Bretonnia has the best Cavalry. He shouldn't change that (neither should Games Workshop ).

Not when High Elf Silver Helms are Dragon Princes are superior to them no..

I don't know.... I haven't read their rules or something, but I believe that Grail Knights are the best shock cavalry in the game, especially when coupled with a Lord or Damsel.

[fluffydragon]

grail knights are on paper the best SHOCK cavalry in the game, but not nessecerily the best heavy cavalry. they are better than dragon princes and normal chaos knights. but the lack of a 1+ save can be very annoying....particularly when i roll dice...

[Lordy]

grail knights are on paper the best SHOCK cavalry in the game, but not nessecerily the best heavy cavalry. they are better than dragon princes and normal chaos knights. but the lack of a 1+ save can be very annoying....particularly when i roll dice...

They are only better than Dragon Princes if they get the Charge first, DP's have 2 attacks and 2+ save

[Jonlissla]

Grail Knights also have 2 attacks. Plus they can issue and accept challanges. They're like a bunch a minor characters if you ask me.

[Lordy]

Then i stand corrected, i must have been looking at an older version stats of Grail Knights, apologies

[Born in lust for blood]

Blood knights are not only more expensive they do not have the lance formation. Everyone keeps forgetting that. Blood knights have a movement of 7 inches while grail knights 8 inches. Fix a unit of six grail knights with a damsel and have the charge the blood knights and bye bye blood knights.
Anyway it is easy to understand why some people fear this might destroy brettonia army. Truth be told that Khorne Chaos knights would easily wipe any Bret knight clean if they get to charge. It's all about charging with the brets.
What I did find annoying with the grail knights is that their Leadership is only 8 and they aren't unbreakable or at least stubborn.

[Di Asturien]

Not when High Elf Silver Helms are Dragon Princes are superior to them no..

I beg to differ, Silver helms are definetly not better and Dragon princes are about the same.

[Jonlissla]

Then i stand corrected, i must have been looking at an older version stats of Grail Knights, apologies

If I remember correctly, they had 2 attacks, but I haven't read their rules for quite some time (I'm mostly do modelling instead of playing). Perhaps I'm wrong and you're right.
Hmm.... I gotta check this up.

[Axel JD]

Blood Knights are without a doubt the best knight unit stat wise, I mean, frenzy, strength five AND lance, a hard to beat combo. BUT Grail knights have four bonuses that makes them, in my opinion, the most useful; the lance formation (never underestimate it!), immunity to psychology, magical attacks and the Blessing of the Lady. And nothing, NOTHING beats the Blessing of the Lady, it's just that simple, I've failed to keep count on how many times that little beauty has saved my knights from getting chopped up /blasted to shreds/disintegrated by magic/smashed into a pulp by Fanatics... etc. etc.

Bretonnians, never change.

[fluffydragon]

Blood knights the best stat wise? Hmmmm... frenzy is not the most useful of abilities, particularly for troops that are dead-they are already immune to psycology and though the extra attack is nice, when they are pulled out of position any jumped on they will expire. To me they just seem like dead chaos knights-S7 on the charge yes, but a distressing tendancy to fall apart when the dice dont behave.

[alexader]

no,you are wrong.wacth this!they are frenzy because they are not dead,they are the ones that he gave them the bloodkiss because they fought heroicaly when he challenged them,and they became vampires,now he told them that if they could prove their worth to him and fight the best heroes of the old world,he will grand them with the gift of containing their lust for blood,which he managed to contained when he slew the blood dragon......now they seek to challenge the best to gain his attention.that's why they are frenzy,they want to fight every time,every place,the best(it doesn't matter who it is!!!).finally the grave guards,in which some of them are from the drakenhof.they are the one he killed them when he challenged the whole order,they are the blood order's men at arms,they are the dead knights.....

[Jonlissla]

no,you are wrong.wacth this!they are frenzy because they are not dead,they are the ones that he gave them the bloodkiss because they fought heroicaly when he challenged them,and they became vampires,now he told them that if they could prove their worth to him and fight the best heroes of the old world,he will grand them with the gift of containing their lust for blood,which he managed to contained when he slew the blood dragon......now they seek to challenge the best to gain his attention.that's why they are frenzy,they want to fight every time,every place,the best(it doesn't matter who it is!!!).finally the grave guards,in which some of them are from the drakenhof.they are the one he killed them when he challenged the whole order,they are the blood order's men at arms,they are the dead knights.....

No one actually said WHERE the Frenzy stat came from, more like just a reminder that they HAD it. I still think that Blood Knights < Grail Knights.

[alexader]

hmmm,they wanted to take it off.i can see well by the way

[alexader]

i say the opposite:Blood Knights > Grail Knights

[Revan-Shan]

I say =

[Goncalou]

Grail knights are better than blood knights for one the gks move at 16 for charge and dks charge at 14. So the gks have better speed and formashions then the bks with the wegformathion

[Ertai]

Blood Knight - 55 pts/model
Grail Knight - 38 pts/model

Blood Knight = 5 At (Frenzy, 3 Knight, 2 Nightmare) @ S7 (at charge) and S5 (elseway) (S4 for steed)

These are the fackts.

Blood Knights are almost ancient creatures that learn to fight for centuries.
Grail Knights are "living saints" and elite knights, but they're mortal and short living comparing to vampires.

[Abokasee]

Thats unique among first posts, welcome to the .org Ertai!

[Ertai]

Thank you, hope I can help. I love Warhammer and MTW2, so it's obvious I'm waiting for this mod impatiently and I will gladly share with whatever I know about both games.

And I'm sorry for my English - it's not my native language.