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Thread: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

  1. #1
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    As per posts in another thread, I can report that I've made progress on the resurrected Britannia 43AD It will be bundled into a new package which also contains the Punic Wars scenario, in line with the new policy of smaller installs with more features. This means I can free up some of the animation folders for extra units (eventually...)

    It's not coming out quite like the long lost original -- I think it will be better

    In all there are 19 factions, mostly Celtic tribes in Britain, plus a couple of pre-Celtic peoples (Cruithne and Novantae in the far north), Batavians in Germania Inferior, and the all-important Romans, of course.

    There's still a lot of translation to do, and new faction shields (for instance the Demetae still think they're Egyptians, despite the celtic unit roster), but it is working, and the various tribes are nicely engaging in the internecine warfare that allowed the Romans to gain a foothold.

    Anyway, here's a few tasters for you:

    Campaign select screen:



    Atrebates start screen:



    New provinces added to the map:

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  2. #2
    Member Member dimitrios the samian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Another brilliant addition Mac ....
    Definately worthy of a new backdrop !! and plenty of bif/buf image pillage from RTW ...

  3. #3
    Member Member Tratorix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Wow, this is the mod that just keeps on goin' isn't it?

    Now, if only I could tear myself away from EB so I could play it more.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Wow, this mod just gets better and better! Good work macsen rufus.
    Eras Total Conquest, your Eras TW for Kingdoms.

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    Savaran Commander Member Hound of Ulster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    nifty.

    Now if you could do a Warring States (China) mod.............
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Ar nDuctas' O'Dougherty clan motto

    'In Peace, sons bury thier fathers; In War, fathers bury thier sons' Thucydides

    'Forth Eorlingas!' motto of the Riders of Rohan

    'dammit, In for a Penny, In for a Pound!' the Duke of Wellington

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    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Hound of Ulster
    Now if you could do a Warring States (China) mod.............
    That would be sweet, but alas, also incredibly difficult, and would definitely need to be its own mod.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  7. #7
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    I'll check my diary for 2011

    The big job for a Chinese scenario would be units - I did have thoughts about making an add-on to fit into Samurai, but I'm not sure how "authentic" the unit animations would be. Isn't someone already working on a Three Kingdoms mod though?

    Anyway, I will be busy enough with Britannia for a while. I've corrected the name lists now, so Welsh factions look Welsh, Scottish factions look Scottish etc etc. There are still royal names to do, but I'm compiling lists of known royalty and heroes, and so far I have implemented Caratacus (an essential feature of South-east England in 43AD but he did get around a bit, spending time with the Catuvellauni where he originated, then the Ordovices and Silures and eventually ran off to the Brigantes who turned him over to the Romans....)

    I've also decided to add one last faction, the Red Branch of Ulster, so Ireland will now be contested a bit, and it will have the FN_07 slot, for raiding bonuses, and a few well known heroes like Cuchullain

    So the 20 factions will be:

    I = Indigenous/pre-Celtic, B = Belgic/Brythonic, G = Gaelic

    1 - Hibernii (G)
    2 - Corieltauvi (B)
    3 - Brigantes (B)
    4 - Cruithne (I)
    5 - Atrebates (B)
    6 - Rome
    7 - Craobh Ruadh (Red Branch) (I)
    8 - Ordovices (G)
    9 - Silures (I)
    10 - Batavians (Germanic)
    11 - Caledonii (I + G)
    12 - Iceni (B)
    13 - Demetae (G)
    14 - Deceangli (G)
    15 - Catuvellauni (B)
    16 - Dubonni (B)
    17 - Durotriges (B)
    18 - Parisi (B)
    19 - Venicones (G)
    20 - Novantae (I)

    The Gaelic and Brythonic division I've used is to distinguish between different waves of Celtic settlement of Britain, not real ethnicities per se - "G" equates to Iron Age A culture, and "B" covers both IA B and IA C. As the Caledonii were a federation rather than a tribe they get access to indigenous and Gaelic troop rosters.

    I will be cleaning out unused units, as the RW prod_files still contain all the previous units from the Bronze Age and eastern campaigns, then I can see which animations are then unused, and get on with making extra units. So far there are about 70 units available across all factions, but some are not yet implemented pending research on Roman auxilliary units that came to Britain (and yes, Claudius did actually bring 12 elephants with him ). I need to convert the Hastati/Principes/Triarii into Legionaries (80-man units), and will include a "First Cohort" option for a double-century of 160 men. Germanic Heavy Cavalry will be recruitable in Germania Inferior, along with the Batavian auxilliaries that were so effective, eg in Ynys Mon where they swam the Menai Straits in order to massacre the Druids.

    Roman auxilliaries (and initially legionaries) will be recruitable only through Belgica (to represent reinforcements coming from the rest of the empire), except British and German ones, obviously. Legionaries will need a legionary HQ or similar, so the Romans will have to take places like Deva and Eboracum to recruit new legionaries.

    Victory conditions will match the maximum extent of historical Roman occupation.
    Last edited by macsen rufus; 02-14-2008 at 12:57.
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    Savaran Commander Member Hound of Ulster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    A highly professional Chinese mod team did a 3Kingdoms mod for RTW and started a Warring States mod, but the Warring States mod died. The 3Kingdoms mod's most stable version (at least for me) is a paritly translated 1.3 version. Portraits, unit sprites, and some traits might be difficult, but it might be doable.
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Ar nDuctas' O'Dougherty clan motto

    'In Peace, sons bury thier fathers; In War, fathers bury thier sons' Thucydides

    'Forth Eorlingas!' motto of the Riders of Rohan

    'dammit, In for a Penny, In for a Pound!' the Duke of Wellington

  9. #9
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Progress over the weekend: I've mostly been working on Ireland, but I've also added in new animations for Roman legionaries and Batavian auxilliaries, and finally moved away from the anachronistic hastati/prinicpes/triarii line-up that I'd used just to get it going. Includes a "First Cohort" option for recruiting double-centuries.

    Roman roster so far:

    Legionaries (80 man century, 2-yr training)
    Legionaries (First Cohort) (160 man double century, 3 yr training)
    Equites (BG unit)
    Sagitarii
    Gallic auxilliaries (Belgica and Lugdunensis only)
    Batavi auxilliaries (Germania Inferior only - yes, you have to beat the Batavians first )
    German Heavy Cavalry (Germania Inferior only)
    Catapults (working with crew from new animation)
    Gastraphetes (I still need to find the correct Latin name....)
    Oxivolos (to be implemented, and renamed, some variety of ballista, anyway...)

    There will be more auxilliaries in due course, some will be province-related not as they were local, but where they were stationed - eg Hamian (Syrian) archers will be available from Lothene, as they were stationed on Hadrian's Wall. Use of auxilliaries has a certain hidden cost

    Ireland:

    Two factions - the Hibernii, now starting in Munster and Laigin, and the Craobh Ruadh starting in Ulaidh (Ulster). There's a range of troops available only to the Irish factions:



    Some of the units are more widely available, the panel shows:

    Tribal warriors
    Tribal chariots (will be replaced with something specific to get a different dismount option later)
    Tribal spears
    Heavy slingers
    Riglach - "Royal champions" - the heavy infantry
    Gaiscedach - cognate with gaesetae for continental Celts
    Feinnid Cleideb - sword-warband (if my Gaellic grammar is wrong please correct, someone )
    Oglach - "Young Heroes" - effectively the young warriors out to prove themselves, armed with spears and darts (set up with javelins at present til I check projectilestats), and as "raiders" they are experts in concealment and surprise

    Plus, not showing here, Tribal Horsemen, and Matarisae (Celtic pikes)

    I'm also considering a couple of "regional units" - Gamanrad cavalry in Connaught, and Nasc Niadh in Munster (unit type to be decided, but probably another elite infantry, anyway...)

    I'm also planning some additions to the build_prod, too, including a vicus - a native village "attached" to a Roman fort.
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    Savaran Commander Member Hound of Ulster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    sweet.

    Are Cu Cuchuailan and Medb going to be heroes for the two Irish factions?
    Last edited by Hound of Ulster; 02-18-2008 at 22:39.
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Ar nDuctas' O'Dougherty clan motto

    'In Peace, sons bury thier fathers; In War, fathers bury thier sons' Thucydides

    'Forth Eorlingas!' motto of the Riders of Rohan

    'dammit, In for a Penny, In for a Pound!' the Duke of Wellington

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    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Mebd, CuChullain, Fergus (which side, though ), Conchubar, Loeg .... all that I can glean. Actually, hate to say it, but I'm beginning to get yearnings to do an Ireland-only campaign map and do a full-blown Tain war campaign.... let's see, maybe for 2013?

    I know the Tain has roots in the Bronze Age, but it has been added to over the centuries, and glossed and Christianised (though not as badly as other mythologies were, the Irish monks were more faithful recorders of folklore than some other scribes, though I think we can take Fionn's resurrection and conversion with a BIG pinch of salt )

    Anyway, a bit of trawling online dictionaries has convinced me to correct some spellings (or use a different transliteration/anglicization) of some of the Gaelic:

    Riglaoich - "Royal champions" (sing. Riglaoch)
    Gaiscedaich
    Oglaoich - "Young Heroes" (now with darts instead of javelins)

    and there are also:

    Carbadan (chariots) dismount as Riglaoich, but only for sieges
    Marcaichean (horsemen) (sing. Marcach)

    And a quick peek at some of the new units in action:

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    Member Member axel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    looking great mate

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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    A kick ass Irish unit would be those super heavily armored spearmen that EB has a regional.


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    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    A couple more screenies;

    New legionaries:



    New catapult crew:




    I also had a look through the auxiliary detachments attested in Britain, and have decided to add about 5-6 different cavalry alae, and 7-8 infantry cohorts. The "Roman" version of the German Heavy Cavalry is now renamed as "Cohort Batavorum equitata" (I think, I might have stuck with Ala Batavorum in the end, but the Batavians did come as a mixed cohort, hence the "cohort ... equitata" notation), plus there will be Nervii, Pannonians, Asturians and another Celtic tribe whose name I forgot overnight Infantry auxilia will include Gallorum from belgica, someone else from Lugdunensis, Batavorum of course (already implmented - just a name change), Thracum (will make them light infantry), Hamian Archers for when Hadrian's Wall is built, Classica (marines), Vasconum (Basque) heavy spearmen.

    I've managed to change most of the fort names to something "in period" across most of the mainland - Pouis is proving difficult, but we now have strongholds like Deva, Aquae Sulis, Durnovaria, Canovium, Camulodunum, Coriosopitum, and (of course ) Ratae Corieltavorum.

    @RA - yes, I was thinking of some sort of heavy spears for the Nasc Niadh - I haven't got EB loaded up yet, though, but I can check their website for details of that unit
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    Savaran Commander Member Hound of Ulster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    the Roman helmets look kinda wierd.

    I can't wait to play as the Red Branch.
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Ar nDuctas' O'Dougherty clan motto

    'In Peace, sons bury thier fathers; In War, fathers bury thier sons' Thucydides

    'Forth Eorlingas!' motto of the Riders of Rohan

    'dammit, In for a Penny, In for a Pound!' the Duke of Wellington

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    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    the Roman helmets look kinda wierd
    They do a bit, but it's about the closest available animation, really. I could probably find a more realistic helmet in there somewhere, but then the armour would be more wrong.... and it also matches with the animations for gastraphetes and oxivolos, so the same look applies across the "Roman" units..... and no, I'm not creating any new ones I'm using the "old" Roman animation (which has the outdated helmet types) for some of the auxilia.

    Last edited by macsen rufus; 02-23-2008 at 10:42.
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    Savaran Commander Member Hound of Ulster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    whatever works.
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Ar nDuctas' O'Dougherty clan motto

    'In Peace, sons bury thier fathers; In War, fathers bury thier sons' Thucydides

    'Forth Eorlingas!' motto of the Riders of Rohan

    'dammit, In for a Penny, In for a Pound!' the Duke of Wellington

  18. #18
    Member Member axel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Hi Macsen,
    About the three kingdoms china mod Raz isn t doing the mod anymore see:

    Raz
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sorry to say this - It's what every mod will probably go through at least once - But I don't think I'll be able to finish this.

    I'm not going to sugar-coat it, I just can't be bothered, that and several other things. Some modding related, some more to do with my life away from the PC. I haven't worked on this for quite a little while, and in that time I've learned a few extra things about modding, structural things that would require me to start from square one. I think I might've promised too much, sorry to say.

    Unlikely true, but I'll suggest it anyway... I would be very happy to see this project done - if someone would like to pick this project up I'd be glad to hand-over what I've done and you can take it from there. Very, very sorry to those of you expecting a release.


    maybe you cane finish it somme day

    I done a little googling for units and more stuff for china if you want i could mail it to you

    But in the meen while i am looking forward to this wonderfull mod

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Oh wow that's lovely! Great work! Good to see you're still modding.
    #Hillary4prism

    BD:TW

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  20. #20
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Hi Rhythmic, yup, still plugging away

    The Britannia scenario is still behaving a bit oddly, and I think it's going to need a lot of tweaking for the economy and AI preferences. The Romans are having trouble grasping the central idea that they are supposed to be invading Britannia, and keep getting distracted by making Belgica happy and secure. And the British factions are having trouble maintaining loyalty, so there's oodles of rebellions and re-emergences, so they're not really training armies properly, just relying on loyalist uprisings etc. I might need to make the map a bit richer, or possibly reduce the size and/or upkeep for BG units so there's some money left over for other units. I don't want to overdo it though, as the constant inter-tribal warfare makes it rather interesting if you play one of the tribes

    Roman recruitment has been tweaked a bit now, so legionaries can only come from a Legionary Fortress, which can only be built in Belgica, Dere (Eboracum), Pec Saetan (Deva), Guent (Caerleon) and East Seaxe (Camulodunum). Auxilia are on a mixed system - some are regionals (eg the Gallic auxilia and alae, Batavians etc), some depend upon having a Military Port (Pannonian cav, Hispanic aux etc etc) which can only be built in a few provinces, as it depends on having a "natural harbour" first (which is indestructible and non-buildable) in those few provinces which were historically used as bases for the Roman fleets.

    I still need to add in the features for allowing Britannic auxilia to be raised, but it will probably depend upon a vicus, which was a small native settlement attached to a Roman Fort and established under the 'management' of the Legion. The vici will also have some other benefits, as they did a lot to persuade locals that Roman spending power was to be welcomed, and legionaries were able to supplement their rations with more fresh foodstuffs and access other *cough* amenities *cough* etc. Besides 'Auxilia Britannorum' I also intend to add hunters and native scouts for a bit of colour....
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    Savaran Commander Member Hound of Ulster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    when are you shooting to release the Britiannia expansion?
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Ar nDuctas' O'Dougherty clan motto

    'In Peace, sons bury thier fathers; In War, fathers bury thier sons' Thucydides

    'Forth Eorlingas!' motto of the Riders of Rohan

    'dammit, In for a Penny, In for a Pound!' the Duke of Wellington

  22. #22
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Hi Hound - it's far enough away that I don't have a date planned yet....
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    Savaran Commander Member Hound of Ulster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    take your time.
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Ar nDuctas' O'Dougherty clan motto

    'In Peace, sons bury thier fathers; In War, fathers bury thier sons' Thucydides

    'Forth Eorlingas!' motto of the Riders of Rohan

    'dammit, In for a Penny, In for a Pound!' the Duke of Wellington

  24. #24
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    I've been plugging away at Britannia over the weekend, in particular keeping an eye on how the AI handles the Romans (I've been playing as the Hibernii and Croabh Ruadh to minimise the impact of my own actions on the British mainland).

    So far it seems like:
    * The Romans haven't properly got the idea that they are invading Britain, though it is improving
    * They really don't know how to defend the Rhine, so Germanic incursions keep knocking them back
    * They have a lot of trouble with province loyalty (but that seems pretty general for all factions)

    I think part of the problem is that they have no 'native' spear units, and depend on auxilia for that role - ie Batavians (which means they have to conquer Germania Inferior first) and the rather expensive Vasconians, which require other infrastructure they don't have at the start of the game. They do have one unit of Batavi at the beginning but they're stationed in Kent so they can play their historic role in defeating Caratacus...

    A lot of the odd behaviour seems to be down to the number of factions - 20 factions in 40 odd provinces is a lot, and the land seems to have trouble feeding them all. I've had to make the farmlands a bit more productive, reduced a few upkeep costs and bodyguard unit sizes. Otherwise the AI factions never get any troop variety, just BGs and basic level troops (tribal warriors and slingers). So there's still a lot of stat tweaking to do, especially for unit preferences and building combination influences.

    Still, I have been progressing on units: gastraphetes are now renamed as Arcuballistae, and oxyvolos are Manuballistae. I've also added in the Nasc Niadh, heavy spearmen in Munster only (after all they were the historical royal bodyguards for the Kings of Munster, and the Order still survives today, although now called the Niadh Nasc!) Oh, and did I say that the Irish version of tribal warriors has been beefed up a bit in recognition of the Irish art of 'stick-fighting'? They are now known as Àrmuinn (Irish is a very rich language when it comes to different words for "warriors" )

    I've also instituted an interesting "feared unit" network between various Irish units, and beefed up the rebel provinces as well, so taking control of all Ireland is a lot harder for either of the factions...

    Anyway, I'm going to have to start up yet another new campaign to test the latest changes, which should hopefully make the Romans a more convincing world-conquering power than they have been so far

    Then there are more names to add - a wider variety of Gallic style names for the Belgic tribes, historical tribal kings and heroes, the Irish kings and heroes etc - and new faction shields for a lot of the tribes (the Ordovici wearing Spartan colours just looks wrong, but the aesthetics can wait for now - though I do have a nice collection of Celtic knots for the new ones).

    One other odd one, that I've never seen before: two re-emergences in the same province
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    Member Member dimitrios the samian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    Good to hear its getting better Macsen ,, take your time and make it as challenging as possible ,, Im sure it will only get better as you keep tweaking .. cheers .

  26. #26
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    I've managed to test the newest tweaks, and the campaign seems to develop in a more stable manner now - there are still loyalist uprisings and the occasional re-emergence, but the AI factions seem to have a better grip on things finally. The latest reforms of the Roman troop training facilities seems to work okay, and Caratacus has been killed once again I think I'm clear to get more new features in place again
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  27. #27
    Savaran Commander Member Hound of Ulster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    why don't you try giving the Romans a provience in Brittiania itself. That might kick the AI into trying to conquer the whole island.
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Ar nDuctas' O'Dougherty clan motto

    'In Peace, sons bury thier fathers; In War, fathers bury thier sons' Thucydides

    'Forth Eorlingas!' motto of the Riders of Rohan

    'dammit, In for a Penny, In for a Pound!' the Duke of Wellington

  28. #28
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    They already have a bridgehead in Kent, facing up to Caratacus across the Thames. Now they're acting a bit better, and sometimes they attack him, sometimes they go sideways into Sussex and whack the Atrebates.


    EDIT: I've actually made a few changes to the start map that shows at the top of the thread - the Catuvellauni have an extra province, Dorset has changed from Atrebatean to Durotrigean, the Hibernii now have Munster instead of Brega, and of course the Croabh Ruadh are in Ulster.
    Last edited by macsen rufus; 03-13-2008 at 10:43.
    ANCIENT: TW

    A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)

    Discussion forum thread

    Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4

  29. #29
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    I've started on the new faction flags, and the Croabh Ruadh now have a more realistic "red hand" symbol... the next wee puzzle is how to persuade the Romans they really ought to train a few legionaries before they start on the catapults, and am tinkering with the personality preferences yet again. I might just change the starting buildings to make them behave more sensibly

    I've also done bit of a reform on the the province titles as well, trying to improve economic and loyalty issues. Much to my utter disgust and embarrassment, it seems to be the Corieltauvi who always get wiped out first, and gave them bit of a play last night. It just looks like they're going to be one of the harder factions
    ANCIENT: TW

    A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)

    Discussion forum thread

    Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4

  30. #30
    Savaran Commander Member Hound of Ulster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient TW3 - Roman Wars

    it just looks like they're going to be one of the harder factions
    oh, well.

    What your plans for the installation of this particular add-on for ATW?
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Ar nDuctas' O'Dougherty clan motto

    'In Peace, sons bury thier fathers; In War, fathers bury thier sons' Thucydides

    'Forth Eorlingas!' motto of the Riders of Rohan

    'dammit, In for a Penny, In for a Pound!' the Duke of Wellington

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