What exact penalties do cavalry get in forests?
What exact penalties do cavalry get in forests?
dont know the numbers, but they lose attack and defense drastically...
Follow up questions:
Do spear/pikemen lose their extra rank bonus in forests? That is, can pikemen still attack with four rows in forest? I read somewhere that they can't.
Second, do units lose any defensive bonuses when they attack rather than hold and wait for an attack? I'm thinking, in particuolar, of pike units -- do they lose defense when they charge or advance on an enemy?
Realistically, advancing would not in and of itself weaken the pike wall in any way. A reckless and disordered charge surely would-- that is not the way such weapons were usually intended to be used, although I believe Gustav used them thus, as formation breakers after a point-blank round of musketry.
Del
I think it was like -4 attack for cavalry in stw. Basically if you're playing against a known mass-cavalry user on a map such as plainsinland or agincourt, you should consider fighting in the forest at all costs. This works great at beating wolf clan including magyar and other cav users. The forest will turn any of your units into an automatic spearmen when fighting cavalry. You shouldn't ever have to use more than one weak unit to fight a cav while in forest.
I've also heard that spearmen fight worse in trees. Also a good way to counter those spear armies. Next time someone says spears are too good give them extra florins and defend on a tree map, get swords and watch them die. The part about the spears/pikes losing bonus is suppossed to be written in the strat guide.
--reaverlisk
If you're interested in your spearmen holding the longest you should never have them charge or attack or anything. Once in awhile you might select all your spears and tell them to halt. The idea is that you don't want them to fight, because they're job is to tie up the enemy units fighting them while you win the flank with your flankers(another reason why swords are crucial, you have to use them over orders etc because they kill much faster and you don't have a lot of time before your spearmen rout or break.)--reaverlisk
Ok, I think I found one answer.
Hold formation reduces your attack by 2, but reduces your enemy's attack as well.
But what about forest penalties? Do spearmen get rank bonuses to attack in the forest?
No they don't get rank bonuses in forests.
I've held off chiv knights with almohad urban militia easily in the forest.
And the highest kill/death ratio that i've ever gotten in MP happened in a 3v3 when both me and the person across from me started in forest. He was almost all order foot and I hit him with maa in the woods. It was a total slaughter.
Quote Originally posted by longjohn2:
No they don't get rank bonuses in forests.[/QUOTE]
Very nice to know...
Though I have stopped using spears in the woods after I lost an entire unit to a Royal unit. They simlpy fought my spears around a tree, one at a time.
So to me it semed the trees disrupted the nice lines of the spears enough to be deadly for them, I never thought that they lost the bonus entirely.
I use swords and other non spears in woods now. They work like a charm.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
What's a royal unit? You mean a cav beat a spear in trees? What spears and valor were they and what cav/valor were they fighting?
Yea, spearmen get torn up in the woods. Their defense is just horrible without the rank bonus.
I noticed that my AUM did much better against spearmen in the forest, and I also noticed that the computer AI, in general, avoided forests with cavalry AND spearmen. Now it makes a little more sense
It was a unit of Royal Knights... Can't remember if it was the general (it was not the king), but generally the Royals have about 3-4 Valours.
I doubt the Royals would have won so easily (they lost 7) if it hadn't been for that tree they were fighting around. My spears, Feudal Sergeants I think, engaged them one at a time because they were strung out around the tree, just like when a unit gets too close to a cliff.
I should have put my men in Engage, but I didn't watch the fight as I thought I would win (spears > knights and with the woods I thought it was even more sure). I just noticed that I had 40 spears left and they were wavering...
I won the battle in the end but I lost a good unit, I think they had 3 Valours or something. It is a long time ago, when I had almost just started my English campaign.
------------------
BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
[This message has been edited by Kraxis (edited 10-07-2002).]
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
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