Archery vs. Weather

**Red Harvest** · 12-12-2004, 08:51

I did some quick tests with the grassland map using Greek Hoplites (not armoured hops, not militia hops, not spartans) and a unit of Forester Warband, testing weather impact on archers with medium settings. Note that my hoplite unit is larger than default (121 on large) and my Forester warband range is limited to 150 range vs. 170 range in the vanilla game. Armour, shield and missile attack are unchanged. I allowed the hoplites to advance, shut off skirmish for the archers and allowed fire at will. I counted volleys and recorded the men left standing after each volley. Each time the hoplites switched to phalanx after the 5th volley.

Observations:
1. Heavy rain considerably reduces kill rate at range--to approximately 33% of the calm weather value. As the range declines (or as the hoplite unit switches to phalanx...I'm not certain yet) the difference is less pronounced, perhaps reducing it to 67% of normal
2. Light rain did not appear to effect archery. Perhaps more runs would show some statistical difference, but it was not apparent as I recorded values.
3. Dense fog didn't seem to effect archery much. One of the two tests I ran had higher kill rate than calm, while the other was considerably lower. Again, it would take some statistics to notice a difference...and that is a sign that the effect is understated.
4. I couldn't reverse the tests and let the AI shoot at me, because the brain dead AI charges its archers at the hoplites instead of shooting...DUH!

If someone wants to get more statistical with this and test other units there might be some fertile ground here. With respect to rain and fog, only heavy rain seems to be relevant for battle purposes. (Unless you want flaming arrows, which I did not test.)

Next up...snow.

**Red Harvest** · 12-12-2004, 09:35

Adding on to this testing...flaming arrows work in heavy rain and in a blizzard. Blizzard is debatable, their effect should be miniscule since they are unlikely to produce ignition on contact during a blizzard, even if the oil or pitch is of low enough viscosity to actually use in freezing conditions. And in a blowing blizzard the arrows would not even get close to their targets at any rate.

I did calm winter and blizzard tests with normal arrows.
1. Winter reduced the kill rate a bit at range, and more at closer range. Overall impact was a kill rate of ~67% of calm summer.
2. Blizzard cut the kill rate less than heavy rain at range, but more so at closer range. Overall impact was a kill rate 50% of the calm summer rate, and about ~67% of the calm winter kill rate.

Conclusion: So far archery appears overpowered with respect to weather. Archers should be next to useless in heavy rain or blizzards. They can't see their targets and their projectiles and bowstrings would be quite adversely effected anyway. They should not have flaming arrow capability in any sort of rain, and probably not in blizzard conditions,and reduced capability in cold weather.

**m4rt14n** · 12-12-2004, 15:01

Hmpffhh... I missed MTW already. That game actually simulate the weather effect properly in regards to archery and gunpowder units.

I remembered refusing to fight in Brittania whenever there were large precipitations. Made all my longbow useless....

**Ldvs** · 12-12-2004, 18:18

I didn't make such tests but I did notice that weather had lesser effects on the archery efficiency than in MTW. That's probably why I tend to use archers sparingly. Otherwise it's too easy.

**Kraxis** · 12-13-2004, 10:47

Red, perhaps you should change the Foresters to Cretans. The Foresters are good enough in melee that the AI considers it more effective to charge in with them.

I remember when I ran tests in MTW with archers, the Nizari just wouldn't stay put and kill my pikemen with their bows. I think the same applies here. Use a less powerful archer unit, at least in the melee department.

**Puzz3D** · 12-13-2004, 15:02

You could increase the experience to 9 on the target unit so that the AI won't want to attack it.

**Red Harvest** · 01-26-2005, 03:44

It is just another case of weak AI. Logical AI would keep the enemy at "the end of the stick." Why take any casualties by closing? The AI should force you to come to it when it has the only ranged units. Even with archer missile attack at 1 they will close. Now they are usually stopping, but at a range of ~50 yards. (And the higher end archers actually charge me and die like fools.) That is nuts. Do they think they are javelinemen? As it is changing formations from phalanx to non-phalanx seems to have some impact on the range, so I can't trust the AI to allow me to do anything quantitative this way, only qualitative because I can't be certain of the range used.