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Thread: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    When you come from a small place, it's always fun when your hometown gets coverage in the media. It's even more fun when the media gets things wrong. And it's simply hilarious when the racist blogosphere includes it in their doomsday predictions.

    Our story begins at a Øren school in Drammen. Last year, before christmas, a fifth grade class planned the usual show, an evening event where the kids show what they've learned to their parents(singing, dancing, etc). No problems so far. However, it was decided that the santa hats was not to be worn. Instant big trouble. The national media reported it, the racist blogosphere seized it. An obvious example of liberals bending over to the demands of muslim immigrants! We need to protect our culture and the right to wear santa hats!!

    The usual outcry from the racists is that journalists do shoddy work, they don't dig deep enough to discover the facts and they don't check their sources. Well, the racists failed bigtime.

    Was it really a liberal imposing multiculture on innocent children? Were muslims involved? The answer is, of course, no. I don't work at the school myself, but I have colleagues and friends who work or have their children there. So, here's what actually happened:

    The teacher of the class sent out an invitation to a "santa party". One of the kids in the class is a jehovas witness, and they regard such icons as satanical. So, the kids parents informed the school that they would not take part if such hats were present. The teacher then had a choice. Have the event without hats or without the kid. The latter was chosen. Why? Because building a proper learning enviroment is extremely important. Having one kid absent from such an event could disrupt that(social isolation, etc etc). As the hats were not deemed integral to the event, they were dropped. A new invitation was sent out. As is usual, one kids parents didn't get the message, so they were asked to take off the hat when they arrived. They told the media about that, and then muslims were blamed as usual.

    Was the handling perfect? No. After some days, the principal told the media that it wasn't muslims behind it, it was a christian group. That's the only thing I take issue with. If the people want to be idiots, let them, there's no reason to give them information about pupils. But it can be forgiven considering the ammount of pressure she was under(reporters were outside her house etc).

    The racist blogosphere, however, cared little about the facts, as long as it allowed them to attack muslims. Pathetic. Needless to say, they did not post a follow up clearing up the mistake. I have my doubts they are even aware that they were wrong, or that they care that they were wrong. As long as they can play the "muslims are destroying our culture"-card, facts don't seem to be important.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  2. #2
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    What the hell is anyone taking notice of a Jehovahs Witness for anyway? let them away off with themselves.

    Kids cannot wear Santa Hats because of one child why didnt they just not wear a hat themselves an leave everyone else alone.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Is this one of these things that changes everything? It almost never happens that muslims actually complain, it's usually what we just LOVE to call pre-emptive dhimmitude. As muslims just might complain.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    We get this crap all the time in the UK. Most of the time the "story" has been cooked up by mental UKIP/fringe Christian types who, whilst being in the top 5% in the world in terms of wealth and comfort, decide that they are in fact a desperately and brutally persecuted sect, struggling for survival.

    In order to defend themselves they make the entirely defensive and christian step of whipping up racial and religious intolerance based on unsubstantiated BS.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Is this one of these things that changes everything? It almost never happens that muslims actually complain, it's usually what we just LOVE to call pre-emptive dhimmitude. As muslims just might complain.
    Please feel free to submit evidence of these frequent complaints. Although I am afraid I won't accept examples from nutty jihadi groups who have more journalists and secret service chasing them than they do actual members.
    Last edited by Idaho; 04-26-2012 at 13:59.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    pre-emptive dhimmitude.
    This.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

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    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    There are about 15 000 members of JW in Norway. I doubt they are making the same considerations in every class that has a JW child.
    Do you want to spark a discussion of minority imposing their views on the majority and wins? Another angle on the ABB case?
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Please feel free to submit evidence of these frequent complaints. Although I am afraid I won't accept examples from nutty jihadi groups who have more journalists and secret service chasing them than they do actual members.
    I said muslims hardly ever actually complain, your mind is playing tricks on you. I have an absolute wealth of examples of pre-emptive dhimmitude or leftist islamphilae though, especially in England

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    Senior Member Senior Member Ibn-Khaldun's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    It's good to leave in a country where most of the people really don't care about religion and stuff like that. We can make fun and mock or just ignore all the religions and the people here really don't care what some may or may not think about them.
    If something like that would have happened in here that one kid would've been without a hat and not entire class.
    And those racists .. they are just ignorant little people.
    To me this just shows how ridiculous the world have become. In the 21st century there shouldn't be a place for religions.

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    There are about 15 000 members of JW in Norway. I doubt they are making the same considerations in every class that has a JW child.
    Do you want to spark a discussion of minority imposing their views on the majority and wins? Another angle on the ABB case?
    It seems to be more of an issue of the majority beating itself into submission to appease the demon of political correctness.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    It seems to be more of an issue of the majority beating itself into submission to appease the demon of political correctness.
    Uh-huh. Lefties and their absolute faith in multiculture are the problem. I don't know why they crave it so badly but I also understand lemmings so it could just be me

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    * don't unerstand lemmings (edit is broken)

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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    * don't unerstand lemmings (edit is broken)
    Lemmings dont jump off cliffs that was made up for telly I believe.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    Lemmings dont jump off cliffs that was made up for telly I believe.
    You are wrong, it was made for the pc and it's quite hard once you get through the first levels

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    Just another Member rajpoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Someone should ban religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    Lemmings dont jump off cliffs that was made up for telly I believe.
    I blame Walt Disney and that cartoon of his.


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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    My wifes old friend is a JW. A complete barmpot.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    You are wrong, it was made for the pc and it's quite hard once you get through the first levels


    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    My wifes old friend is a JW. A complete barmpot.
    Excellant term I shall use it in everyday conversation at the first opportunity.
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 04-26-2012 at 15:45.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by The King View Post
    It's good to leave in a country where most of the people really don't care about religion and stuff like that. We can make fun and mock or just ignore all the religions and the people here really don't care what some may or may not think about them.
    If something like that would have happened in here that one kid would've been without a hat and not entire class.
    And those racists .. they are just ignorant little people.
    To me this just shows how ridiculous the world have become. In the 21st century there shouldn't be a place for religions.
    You like to make fun of and mock religious people, you think they have no place in the world, and your happy your country is relatively "pure" in that regard...but you don't like racists? What you said isn't that different.

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    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    My wifes old friend is a JW. A complete barmpot.
    My brother married one. And now my grand mother hardly speaks to him.
    If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    It seems to be more of an issue of the majority beating itself into submission to appease the demon of political correctness.
    The child should have been excluded from the class if that was the wishes of the parents. They should not be allowed dictate things to everyone else. This obsession of trying to please everyone is how the Millennium Dome was reached.

    Generally Muslims get in the spotlight as they are the most intolerant group. But the same principle applies to any other group that acts in the same way.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    The child should have been excluded from the class if that was the wishes of the parents. They should not be allowed dictate things to everyone else. This obsession of trying to please everyone is how the Millennium Dome was reached.

    Generally Muslims get in the spotlight as they are the most intolerant group. But the same principle applies to any other group that acts in the same way.

    If only you had a grasp of history Rory, you could put that reasonable brain to good use.

    Go and look at attitudes to Catholic emancipation in the 18th C, Jews in the late 19th C.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Yeah, I am aware of these. Yes, Pitt the Younger quit over George's refusal to allow Catholic emancipation. But we are currently in the 21st. I am not blaming Muslims for burning down the Library of Alexandria, the Catholics for wiping out the Cathars or what most religious groups have done to any that are weaker than they currently are.

    Christmas is as we all know a Frankenstein's monster of different religion facets pasted over each other for the last few millennia, but is a tradition.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    The child should have been excluded from the class if that was the wishes of the parents. They should not be allowed dictate things to everyone else. This obsession of trying to please everyone is how the Millennium Dome was reached.
    Surely you've just got to treat it on a case by case basis. If one pupil or a minority of pupils felt strongly about something that the rest were pretty indifferent towards, it hardly seems unreasonable to try to accomodate them to some degree.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    If only you had a grasp of history Rory, you could put that reasonable brain to good use.

    Go and look at attitudes to Catholic emancipation in the 18th C, Jews in the late 19th C.
    Not the same, Jehovah's Witnesses are self-excluders socially and theologically, they live in the secular world but they do not consider themselves part of it.

    Furthermore, the parents should have been told that the "Santa Hat" is, at worst, a mark of a pious old Turkish Christian who gave generously with no expectation or desire for recognition.

    The child should have been excluded because society should not bend to the tyrnnical superstitions of the minority.

    And, yes, before you ask that means we should have gay "marriage" in this country provided that is the more-or-less informed decision of the greater part of the people.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    There are about 15 000 members of JW in Norway. I doubt they are making the same considerations in every class that has a JW child.
    Do you want to spark a discussion of minority imposing their views on the majority and wins? Another angle on the ABB case?
    I have no problems whatsoever with how this was handled, with the exception of the principal succumbing to pressure and telling the public what the issue really was.

    Classroom learning enviroment trumps santa hats. Sure, one could've wanted these people not to view santa hats as satanical, but they do. The school has to deal with that, and they have to deal with it in the way that is most beneficial to learning. No other considerations should be made. If they cared about other things, like other peoples feelings, THAT would be a problem. A school is a place for learning, not santa hat-promotion.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  26. #26
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    The child should have been excluded from the class if that was the wishes of the parents. They should not be allowed dictate things to everyone else. This obsession of trying to please everyone is how the Millennium Dome was reached.

    Generally Muslims get in the spotlight as they are the most intolerant group. But the same principle applies to any other group that acts in the same way.

    The kid should absolutely not be excluded. The parents are the problem, and the kid should not be made to suffer because of them. A teacher has a responsibility towards the kids, not the parents. A school cannot choose parents for the kids, but we sure as hell can do our utmost to counter their negative influence.

    Bloody parents. The main problem with todays schools. The only thing coming close to that title is political involment. Of any colour.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  27. #27
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfhylwyr View Post
    Surely you've just got to treat it on a case by case basis. If one pupil or a minority of pupils felt strongly about something that the rest were pretty indifferent towards, it hardly seems unreasonable to try to accomodate them to some degree.
    Good thinking, Rhy.

    It comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. If the minoritys losses outweigh the losses of the majority, then the minority calls the shots. And vice-versa.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  28. #28
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Good thinking, Rhy.

    It comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. If the minoritys losses outweigh the losses of the majority, then the minority calls the shots. And vice-versa.
    There's a problem with that approach: it involves thinking, something that people generally try to avoid.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  29. #29
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    There's a problem with that approach: it involves thinking, something that people generally try to avoid.
    This is the way the world currently works, and is what the racist right calls "muslims and multiculture destroying our culture!!!!1111"
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  30. #30
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: A muslim attack on christmas!! No, wait...

    Disney made a movie which showed lemmings commiting mass suicide in the Artic.

    What they failed to disclose was that it was not true, and to make the myth real the Disney team pushed the animals into a river.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White...ilm)#section_2

    =][=

    Tolerance of a minority is a good thing, however it would be good for minorities to tolerate majorities too.

    I do not seen this as a multicultural problem. It is a religious minority imposing its views on a diverse majority. It is a monoculture problem of a blinkered world view and demanding all else walk in lockstep with them.

    Exposé the children to all of the festivals or none at all. Do not base choices on the desires of a single group, essentially the school has propagated JW teaching above all the others... Not doing something as it may offend a religios group is kowtowing to the unreasonable mindset that that groups way of life out ranks all others. That is neither democratic nor tolerant nor multicultural.

    Personally I would be happiest keeping religion in a 'comparative religion class' and minimizing exposure to such until a child is old enough not to take everything a teacher says as 100% true. I think it should be left as a teen/adult choice. Nor do I think the public person should be spent on pastors in schools as it is done in Aus.
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