The Greek Cities

[wumpus]

I'm not really sure which of these areas would make you get richer faster (as Greek, in either vanilla RTW or with XGM): developing your economic buildings in the Sicily/Magna Grecia area or doing it in the Rhodes/Asia area. Or would it be the Nile Delta area (considering that the Delta is very fertile, plus the seaport capability of Alexandria)? I mean, without taking into consideration the military/strategy aspects. Opinions, anyone? Hawooh.

[Quintus.JC]

I personally fancy the Nile Delta. The trade, farming and population growth are all excellent. The only lacking is mines, which are found in the Balkans, but I guess the grains made up for that.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

I need space and I need It fast.
First I focus on ports. Your empire stretches out across the oceans and if School history taught me anything its that if you want to maintain an overseas empire rule the waves. Then while my shores are being protected i focus main recruiting in syracuse in Sicily. When the scipii attack, and they will, I have a suprise force waiting for them. I turn the tables, ally myself with Cartage and drive the Roman scum into the Sea where My Supreme navy (told you you'll need them) whipe out the scipii Army and sink their ships.
(it looks like hes drowning, he)

I then fortify My greek cities (which have been creating units the whole time) and launch two attacks on Macedonia and the ever present House of brutii.
Then; because I now own the Romano/scipii city of Capua, I march my troops down from there and use my Navy to cross from greece and squash the Brutii territory smaller and smaller until its destroyed making my path to Rome (and Victory Clear)

"March!"

[Quintus.JC]

You seems to be playing an fast paced game, which is un familar with me. I prefer to slowly vanqush my ememies one at a time. allying yourself with Carthage on a hard leveled game seems to bring betrayl most of the time. especially if you hold Srycuse and Messina, attracting their attention, plus if you try to capture Capua and Tanratum early on wouldn't that bring the divine intervention of the Senate, who has one full-stack troops full of exprinenced Triarii and co. Ports are very healthy though, which increase trade by an awsome amount, but it is sometimes unreliable if you have no one to trade with or if it's blocked. although they are the best option for economical structure.

[The Wandering Scholar]

You play a lot like me Cicero, I am very defensive and I enjoy making money.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

I prefer the inverse. I enjoy massive offensives and squeezing every denarius out of my economy and then putting it straight to use.

[Quintus.JC]

I try to get along with factions that don't bother me; especially if they were allies historically I will try to repeat history. On the money case I used to try to keep as money as possible, saving every penny, normally having around 300K. But then after discovering the corrupt traits I keep my treasury under 50K, all the extra money had to be spent somehow, on the army, useless buildings, evening giving it away is acceptable.

[salemty]

im just gonna say ur greatest tools as greece are ur rich citys walls and navy. have a strong navy to prevent the brutii armys from crosssing the sea. using this tactik i have 45k huge army and havnt had to fight brutii once

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I also play fast paced game cause with the greeks thats the only way to do it ..
You just need to destroy some neighbors early because I have found that nobody likes greeks
In my greek campaign about month ago I was at war with the romans, carthage, pontus, macedon, seleucids and germans(just because I had conquered the Massilia and they had decided to attack me with their huge army of 3 units the next turn ) .. and the date was just 250BC
Also .. the senate hardly leaves from Latium .. they just stay next to Rome or hide there army in to that forest north-east of Rome .. they will attack if you are close to the borders of Latium tough ...
Ports bring in a lot of cash even if you fight with everyone around you .. I got every turn over 10k and this was just the beginning of the game .. Colossus of Rhodes helps a lot

[linkdrago]

my thing is you get attacked by the Scipio family or Carthage on Sicily, then at thermon by the brutii, if you get Athens quick enough and take that then u can build a army there to be able to attack the brutii family, but the next thing i would do is go straight up to a stone wall at sparta but with the greeks i would just say slowly take greece and maybe some of turkey

[Darkvicer98]

My Strategy of the Greeks is to take Corinth and Athens then Larissa in Greece. Since you now own Greece and withstanded the attack on Syracuse attack Messana on Sicily. In Asia Minor take Halicarnassus. Then ship an army to Crete and take Kydonia. Theres now a really good sea trade in the Aegean. Take the Macedon settlement North of Greece and Sardis once the other Seleucid settlements have fallen to the Eastern Factions. Watch out for attacks on Thermon by the Brutii.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Send your Spartan hops and a choice merc or two to Syracuse early on. Athens and Kydonia should be acquired quickly, as should Halicarnassus. Enslave rather than exterminate -- but keep a governor in Thermon (and nowhere else, even if your camping just outside as the battles are each resolved) so that you can get Thermon rapidly to stone wall status.

Thermon and Syracuse can then be used as breakwaters. No army is better set to defend stone walls than the greeks. Cretans and Rhodians shooting from the walls, spears greeting anyone who forces a gate or tries to get through the streets to the square, a general flashing in on the flank when they turn th wrong corner -- THIS the greeks do well. Both cities will be repeatedly attacked, but properly defended can end up being places to bleed the Scips and Brutes white. This lets you slowly build your economy while acquiring Corinth after the inevitable betrayel of Macedonia. Just let the Romaoi bleed at those two spots, reinforcing gradually.

Build a support army to fend of Macedon (and snap up Larissa if they screw up), to reinforce/help Thermon as needed, and to squash any Julii force landing near the isthmus. Build a stronger force in Asia minor to contend with the Selkies, Eggies, & Pontics -- once you've expanded to good borders (mountain passes and rivers), you can turn back to the Macedonians. Remember, defeating those sons of Alexander means a wider front for the war with the Brutes -- be ready to hammer back and follow through into Italy.

[RollingWave]

the RTR version of the Greek campagin is even more... interesting.

starting at 280 bc they basically gave them the Kingdom of Epirius and the Aetolion league. at this stage the succession wars of Alexander had reached one climax, with the Kingdom of Selucid , Ptolmy firmy entrenched in Persia and Egypt, and fighting to a stalemate in Syria, while Lysimachus also carved out a empire in the eastern Asia Minor and Byzantium area.

Back in Macedonia, Pyrrhus, king of Epirus and cousin to Alexender the great tried to annex the throne with the help of Lysimachus but was throw out after a brief stint.

In 281 BC though, all hell broke loose as the last two great generals of Alexander both died in short succession, Lysimachus was killed in a war against the Seleucus, and his kingdom crumbled, as Selucus and the Ptlomic and Macedonian King scramble to absorb his holdings, Seleucus himself was assinated.

With Pyhrrus on the outside looking in, the different Hellenstic faction reached an rare agreement, as the Italian Greek Colony of Tartenum was threatened by the new rising Roman Republic, an agreement was made for all 3 major kingdom to supply Pyhrrus with an large army to defend and develop italy into a new Hellenstic stronghold. this also send a major throne in their back looking the other way while they concentrate on carving up what was Lysimachus' realm.

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So in RTR, the greek city starts with Athens, Sparta, half of Crete, the Kingdom of Epirus (south of the Illyrian, west of Macedon) , two Greek colony on the Italian and Syracus, Byzantium.

Much like vinilla, your under threat from all sides, but this time even more scary as you have no just 2 front, but more like 6 front.

Rome will come bearing down on Pyrrhus' huge arse army quickly, while Syracus will be under assault from Carthage, you start at Peace with Macedon and at war with the Ptlomic , but that'll change very quickly. as all your holdings in the area is in contact with them. it's a messy situation.

You'll also lose money very quickly if you don't act, because you start with a unit of elephants that cost almost 3000$ in UPKEEP. your better horsemans also cost 600 or so in upkeep, as is your Spartan.

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I'm sure many here play RTR or RTRPE, so how would you approach the Greeks in the RTR setting?

[wumpus]

Seamus, my noble friend, once more I learn a tip or two from you. Megathanks. It's those little things that can be added by bits to what humble (and sometimes humbling) experience I have that continue to make me enjoy RomeTW so much--and it's having an exchange of ideas with people sharing the same craze as I do that makes playing even more enjoyable.
Hi there, RollingWave of Taiwan. Because of your post up there, I"m finally convinced to try RTR very soon in the future. I have tried vanilla, then XGM, and trying to wrestle with EB 1.1--shifting from one to the other (and loving it each time). Maybe I'll try RTR this time.
Hawooh.

[Motep]

the RTR version of the Greek campagin is even more... interesting.

starting at 280 bc they basically gave them the Kingdom of Epirius and the Aetolion league. at this stage the succession wars of Alexander had reached one climax, with the Kingdom of Selucid , Ptolmy firmy entrenched in Persia and Egypt, and fighting to a stalemate in Syria, while Lysimachus also carved out a empire in the eastern Asia Minor and Byzantium area.

Back in Macedonia, Pyrrhus, king of Epirus and cousin to Alexender the great tried to annex the throne with the help of Lysimachus but was throw out after a brief stint.

In 281 BC though, all hell broke loose as the last two great generals of Alexander both died in short succession, Lysimachus was killed in a war against the Seleucus, and his kingdom crumbled, as Selucus and the Ptlomic and Macedonian King scramble to absorb his holdings, Seleucus himself was assinated.

With Pyhrrus on the outside looking in, the different Hellenstic faction reached an rare agreement, as the Italian Greek Colony of Tartenum was threatened by the new rising Roman Republic, an agreement was made for all 3 major kingdom to supply Pyhrrus with an large army to defend and develop italy into a new Hellenstic stronghold. this also send a major throne in their back looking the other way while they concentrate on carving up what was Lysimachus' realm.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So in RTR, the greek city starts with Athens, Sparta, half of Crete, the Kingdom of Epirus (south of the Illyrian, west of Macedon) , two Greek colony on the Italian and Syracus, Byzantium.

Much like vinilla, your under threat from all sides, but this time even more scary as you have no just 2 front, but more like 6 front.

Rome will come bearing down on Pyrrhus' huge arse army quickly, while Syracus will be under assault from Carthage, you start at Peace with Macedon and at war with the Ptlomic , but that'll change very quickly. as all your holdings in the area is in contact with them. it's a messy situation.

You'll also lose money very quickly if you don't act, because you start with a unit of elephants that cost almost 3000$ in UPKEEP. your better horsemans also cost 600 or so in upkeep, as is your Spartan.

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I'm sure many here play RTR or RTRPE, so how would you approach the Greeks in the RTR setting?

Currently playing the romans on RtR. Ill let you a strategy once I play greek

[WarDad]

Greek Cities (H/H)

I am making incredible progress, due to starting out on the right sandle.
24 regions now, y259, Rome vanquised, last Roman city under siege.

First Turn: Sicily,Attacked Romans outside of city, heroic victory.
City resouces are now mine, and more importantly they are denied to the enemy.
OK how to: use all troops and approach Romans, now hire mercs.
Attack Romans, win, send mercs back to garrison your city, enter undefended Roman city.

First Turn: Take Corinth.
Move Spy to Corinth, Approach Corinth and Hire mercs. Siege Corinth.
Good fortune the gates were open by the spy, so I take it.
(Huh? The gates shoudn't be open the same turn the Spy enters the city, but this is the 1st turn).

Next: Take Larissa. Deny the resources to the Macidonians. Mop up or chase away scattered Macidonians, don't let them combine strength until you can build up more troops.
Take out their two remaining cities early, especially Thessa-whatever. (Thessalonica?).
Then I went back for the independants, Athens and etc...

Sicily: I waited for the Romans to take the 3rd city from Carthage.
Now I can take it and keep my valuable Carthage trading partner.


Greek Advantages:
Militia Hopololites - better than town watch, only 230 gold. (large unit size). Good fodder.
Good attack, but takes some micro managment to get them to run around enemy flanks.
Also the lowest units benifit quite a bit from blacksmith, temple bonuses, and experience.
Armoured Hop... - will fight off the heaviest calvery, even scythed chariots. Laughs at dogs.
Money... In the early game you can easily buy mercs. So many large cities so close to the capital.
Order... In the early game you are retaking Greek territory, complete with Greek buildings.
No need to slaughter or enslave peaceful tax paying Greek citizens.
You also need the fodder for the army.

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

I'm not entirely sure how to play as the Greeks, because I only seem to be successful with a Phalanx if I'm using it in defence. The cavalry isn't particularly good either, and the empire is so spread out its hard to keep track of. Fighting Brutii and Macedon at the same time is just overpowering in my opinion, if you had some non-phalanx units it might be easier...

[peacemaker]

i dunno...i use an all-phalanx or almost-all phalanx, sometimes with a general or archers(usually no more than 2 archers), and probably a half stack at best. i seem to be able to pin the enemy, then circle to the side of it with another phalanx, and just start cutting them from both sides. if that doesn't work, i just use my general to execute hammer and anvil attacks

[WarDad]

The Greeks can afford to hire mercs to round out their ranks.
Hopolites will run if you turn off the phalanx formation. Charging into the enemys rear is worth it.

The Senate assigns missions, and you can really mess that up.
If you take Massana (Sicily) from the Scipii they lose 1 of their 2 cities, totally nerfing them.
The mission to take Carthage's 1 Sicilian city will fall on Brutti and/or Julli.
They get distracted from their main objectives, the Greek Cities and Gaul.
This buys you time, time to hurt Macedon before they can build up and come after you.

Keep building troops on Sciliy to deter attack, and to take the 3rd city from the Romans who conquer it. Of course your budget will get depleted, and you may have to resort to peasant garissons in Sparta and Corinth for a while. I later used the peasants to repopulate Thermon. However you biggest challenge is to hold onto to Larissa while your economy picks up (build ports and roads). I had 7 cities vs. Macedons 2 cities at that point. I quickly built up economy & troops then took advantage of a dumb Macedonian mistake. Thasalonica was quickly mine. Hmm, a lot of good tax payers and armoured hopolites. Armoured Hopolites are just the things I need to face the Brutii generals.

[WarDad]

I really started to like the Greeks horse archer (javelin thrower).
They have more ammo, better range, and are less likely to get hurt then petalists.
Plus they can run down skirmishers, but they are useless for flanking until the ammo runs out.

While defending I placed them behind my Phalanx wall, along with archers and petalists.
I really started liking this arrangement, and now do it on a big battle offense.

Their speed helps them to stay out of trouble. They can be used to soften up selected troops,
like elephants or chariots.

If I want serious calvery for flanking and smashing, I'll hire mercs. A Greek empire with a REX (rapid expansion) start can well afford it. All those ports, all those large cities, all those mines, all that money.

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

I was just thinking about perhaps starting a campaign over the christmas holidays with the Greek Cities, and I was just wondering about any general tactics. From what i've seen on my previous failures as the Greeks, there are a few necessary precautions to take whilst playing the Greeks:

1. Always have you phalanx on level ground, and defending. Unless its this, the enemy seem to just run through the pikes, and slaughter every man in the phalanx when the men change to swords.
2. Killing off any missle units in range is a good idea, as your phalanx will get mauled by missiles, and even if they aren't killed, the ranks will thinnen out and they will break in combat.
3. It's a good idea to expand quickly, as your rich and powerful Roman, Macedonian and Selucid neighbours aren't going to wait for very long.
4. Naval combat can save you lots of time and can stop naval assaults from the Brutii.

This is all I can remember, if anybody else has anything general that could help please post it here.

Thanks

[Cleon_of_Sparta]

I was just thinking about perhaps starting a campaign over the christmas holidays with the Greek Cities, and I was just wondering about any general tactics. From what i've seen on my previous failures as the Greeks, there are a few necessary precautions to take whilst playing the Greeks:

1. Always have you phalanx on level ground, and defending. Unless its this, the enemy seem to just run through the pikes, and slaughter every man in the phalanx when the men change to swords.
2. Killing off any missle units in range is a good idea, as your phalanx will get mauled by missiles, and even if they aren't killed, the ranks will thinnen out and they will break in combat.
3. It's a good idea to expand quickly, as your rich and powerful Roman, Macedonian and Selucid neighbours aren't going to wait for very long.
4. Naval combat can save you lots of time and can stop naval assaults from the Brutii.

This is all I can remember, if anybody else has anything general that could help please post it here.

Thanks

ok all i play is the greeks i have won the world with my tatics ok frist thing get ride of that base give it to the scipii bf that recruite a shit just one and move all your units onto it and send them towards sparta no one will attack you then use your diplomate to give the base away(you will take it back later), never use milita hoplites they are weak and worthless, use them as garasions not as attacking units, when i play i compose my army like this one genreal(cleon of sparta) 3 armored hoplites, 11 hoplites, 3 archers, 3 hores units, i routat the archers and hores units with onagers ok use the scippii to build temples of vulcan let them build the teample on that land they will take all three bases so that a good chanch you will get one or two, ok then put your spy into cornrith and keep watching till they build a temple to artimis(improves missle units +3 is wat you want it to get to) and the teample of vulcan combined with armories will give your units golden swords and the teample artimis will give your archers golden arrows, i know the romans will over run your land badly so in the start build a fleet of ships to chach them in the seas and hoply sink them then build another fleet of ships and use them to block the docks of the roman fraction thats giving you the most trouble more likely the roman bruti. trust me i know wat i am talking about in my final campain of the greeks i had 2,010 wins with no loses if you want proof i can take a xfire pic and post it here.

[peacemaker]

mkay, sounds like a geat post cleon, but it was one big run-on sentence. i couldnt read past the first two lines, fankly. Those two lines were full of good infomation, so good job. it might help to be understood better if you use punctuation.


Anyway, the geek cities have the militia hoplites(like lots of hellenistic factions) that serve you geat duing you early campaign. i have conquered all the geek peninsula with just lots of militia hoplites and weapon bonuses. The hoplite isn't that geat, i never liked it. I just roamed around in a full stack

[Cleon_of_Sparta]

my city defence tatics i have to use the hoplites bc the miltia hoplites dont work for it i stoped useing them all togehter when 2 units broke to one roman unit ARGUE that was my middle and the frist and last defeat i had i am gonna make a post about my end game i conqured all that stood in my way i had 2010 wins and no loses :), but i have problay 600 hoplits on my map and around 40 armourd hoplites on my map bc i mainly used them in my armies, but i will admit that have many uses on the battle feild, i just havnt found one for them bc i dont trust them

[Emperor of Graal]

Like Peacemaker said, Your posts are great but try to use full stops,and other puntuation.

[peacemaker]

The thing about the geeks, is that they'e centered aound the 3 main goups:stong phalanx infantry, stong cretan achers, however very weak cavaly. So I always roam aound in full stacks-10 cretans and 10 armoured hoplites. If I have a general or some merc cavaly, i swap out some cretans. Sure, these armies are expensive, but by then, you will pobably have captured the entie greek peninsula and can afford to have massive armies. To defend a town, there are two ways:Corner yourself into the town square with the almighty phalanxes, or have like 10 archers to mow down anything from the walls. If at all possible, I prefer option #2 but this is what the greeks are made for. If you absolutely NEED cavalry in you amies, then you have a few options:(since greek cavalry is really weak late game)

1)go and use you general's unit, these are some of the toughest cavalry out there.
2)have a family member run around recruiting sarmation/barbarian merc cav
3)I'm not sure how the bribing system works, if you bribe another army's faction, do you get access to their units? If so, you can probably find some wandering faction armies to buy off. If the bribes don't work like that, tough patooties.
4)You can always edit game files
5)have LOTS of greek cavalry, and just swap out depleted ones for fresh units

[Cleon_of_Sparta]

ok i am undeated with the greeks but there is one little thing that gets on my nervs is when your city is undersiege for a long time some of your men starv to death and weakens your units if and how do you trun that off.

[Flavius Merobaudes]

ok i am undeated with the greeks but there is one little thing that gets on my nervs is when your city is undersiege for a long time some of your men starv to death and weakens your units if and how do you trun that off.

ok you don't tun that off because you can't I think it's had-coded so__y fo_ lack of punctuation and rrrs

[I of the Storm]

ok you don't tun that off because you can't I think it's had-coded so__y fo_ lack of punctuation and rrrs

Good one.

Alphabetism isn't just about havin' dem right letters inna word. It's about putting them in the ritgh ordre alos.


On topic: It is hardcoded indeed.

[Magraev]

The poor man could be dyslexic - give him a break. Adn ircnedilby enouhg we tsill udnetrsadn it!