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Thread: Tokens of My Confection [Concluded]

  1. #961
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Can you rand town and can I rand town next time? I feel like I'm becoming Riedquat's nemesis. And I like the guy.
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  2. #962
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Pizza, why claim SK? It did nothing to divide the town, as the next day pretty much everyone voted you. You mentioned driving the lynch, what do you mean by that?

  3. #963
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    "Given that I was pretending to be a PR, I really hope it was the scum and not a vig who killed me."

    Clutch play by Winston. You successfully made me think you were PR, and we wasted the N1 shot. We needed to be very very clutch for the rest of the game thanks to that play.

    The Riedquat kill attempt, followed by block and kill, was how we saved the game. That takes a LOT of our time and strength to pull off, and it's still a huge part luck.
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  4. #964
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    "Pizza is the goddamn Prince of Fuckery!"

    Now that is the highest praise right there.
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  5. #965
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    BTW, how are neighbourhood chats normally used here? For planning? 1 on 1 interrogation of someone you think is mafia? I felt kind of aimless in there most of the time.

  6. #966
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    Pizza, why claim SK? It did nothing to divide the town, as the next day pretty much everyone voted you. You mentioned driving the lynch, what do you mean by that?

    Simple. I wanted to drive the lynch against Scarlett Aria, as my tunnel on her would almost always result in her being a vanilla townie lock clear if I happened to die at night.

    Also, if GH lynched instead, the odds of the counterwagon getting lynched are lower. The order of lynches matter.

    There's also something advanced as a concept that screws with townie minds in the extreme, which is that the order of scum goon lynches also matters.

    Newyn aka Fleeing Coward was scum in a game, with a partner, who he had been soft-bussing all game but not pushing. As soon as there was serious suspicion on his partner, he pushed his partner hard. I immediately called him out for this, and explained their entire strategy in painstaking detail to a town who didn't care.

    I said we needed to lynch him first, then his partner, or town would lose.

    Town lynched his partner, never lynched him, and town lost. As predicted.

    The order of scum goon lynches matters. Town never considers this, and their reads are often based on the flip of the person who died last.

    If the right goon is lynched, you catch his partner. If the wrong one is lynched, you clear his partner incorrectly.

    Between myself and Generalhankerchief, I know I always lynch, and Scarlett Aria never lynches, if GH gets lynched first.

    If I lynch first, GH may not lynch, given some of the behaviors I did toward him earlier. And Al. That was all part of the plan. I also knew it risked GH, but Al and novice should have been cleared by those maneuvers. All we need is 1 receiver in the endzone with the football, not 4. I play for the touchdown that wins, not just points on the board followed by a loss. I know power wolfing is a thing, but against this specific audience, bussing and distancing plays are super effective.

    Claiming SK under those circumstances was only slightly more risky than claiming a town power role. And, by the way, people believe SK claims, and if the SK is offering himself freely and claims to have already lost the game, town feels in control.

    It was a psychological trick, to give people more confidence that my trickery all game would end, and they would resolve all their suspects.

    It was an offer town couldn't refuse.
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  7. #967
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    bbiab to answer more q's dp
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  8. #968
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Also

    Those post-dead comments publicly and in the mafia players qt were a little upsetting. Please avoid in the future.

    I know you guys didn't mean anything by it, but live players could have seen both comments.
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  9. #969
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Oh, one more thing. Why in your posts here do you place such a big emphasis on PR hunting? You viewed Winston's diversion as a massive blow, and while I do think what he did was clever I fail to see how using one NK on a vanilla made it much harder to win, especially given that the PRs were kinda weak (Joat is pretty good, but desperado is either an unlikely dayvig or a trade of one dead town for one cleared town, and a regular vig can easily backfire).

  10. #970
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    BTW, how are neighbourhood chats normally used here? For planning? 1 on 1 interrogation of someone you think is mafia? I felt kind of aimless in there most of the time.

    If you can neighborize town power roles, you can coordinate.

    And yes, if it's only town in the neighbor chat, you can discuss your suspicions without tipping off the mafia. it has utility, but is limited.

    Also, it doesn't hard clear the person doing the neighborizing, but it's usually a town power.

    Also, mafia basically never neighborize just their own team, so if there is a mafia neighborizer, your odds of there being townies spewed from the choices to neighborize are very good.
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  11. #971
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    Oh, one more thing. Why in your posts here do you place such a big emphasis on PR hunting? You viewed Winston's diversion as a massive blow, and while I do think what he did was clever I fail to see how using one NK on a vanilla made it much harder to win, especially given that the PRs were kinda weak (Joat is pretty good, but desperado is either an unlikely dayvig or a trade of one dead town for one cleared town, and a regular vig can easily backfire).
    Town powers claiming can disrupt all the work we do during the day to get a mislynch, switch up the wagons, and cause a mafia lynch instead.

    And makes those pushing the town power look scummy. Pushing a vanilla townie has less of that effect. I'd rather be trying to mislynch vanillas, it works much easier.

    And power role hunting with the murder prevents that, and prevents their powers from working.

    Vanilla townies drawing the kill is almost always the best move early.

    Thing is, Winston is also a really decent scum hunter. It was advantageous to silence him anyway.

    Desperado is crushingly powerful. Even if town mislynches this person, they can function. That's why it's so powerful.

    Town's strongest roles are vigilantes, followed by cops. If used correctly. Desperado is a vig type role.
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  12. #972
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Like, I generally suck at villaging early on, but give me a vig-type role and you're almost guaranteed a dead scum. My track record as a vigilante is exemplary.

    Giving any townie a vigilante power is roughly equivalent to being worth an entire goon, possibly two depending on the role. Desperado is only worth 1 goon.
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  13. #973
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Desperado, SK, and joat vig, odds of all 3 not causing a single mafia death are pretty long. Don't let the scoreboard fool you, we got lucky.
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  14. #974

    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Fun game. Congrats scums, well deserved!
    Didn't get it fully right at any time, but at least I've only been voting scum/SK before all EODs.
    Really good tone from novice and al sips
    Did get a bad feeling when I saw the sudden change of novice though, but since he changed away from GH who I was voting, I felt there was no reason to act on it at that time(as if he was scum, he wouldn't change away from a town!GH at that time anyway).

    Also, thanks for hosting!
    Last edited by NotACop; 11-18-2016 at 10:22.

  15. #975
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    GG all, thank you for hosting so I could play, Synecdoche.

    Game was fun and civil and friendly, and that's always a win. Been a lot of rough games elsewhere, nice to have a friendly atmosphere even when we're lying and accusing one another.

    I heart everyone here.
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  16. #976
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Don't let the outcome discourage you too much, dp.

    Actively trying to solve is good, and trying to solve for villagers within the current wagons is a real benefit to the village, it is almost always better than listlessly drifting after placing a vote.

    In this example, the guy was scum. A lot of times it's going to be a town. Don't be too results-oriented.

    Example, a friend I know busses as scum every game, on d1. He's won a lot. But it's generally very bad for the team. And now we're on to him, so he can't do that effectively anymore because it's too obvious and kills too many scums too early.

    If you're results oriented only, you're going to overlook what's good about your game, and reward bad play that can be effective rarely. Keep developing, but don't get rid of what's good about your game.

    Remember- it is a guessing game. Guessing wrong is not necessarily bad play. It's just an inevitable part of the game.
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  17. #977
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Ah yeah the neighborizer is proven town according to the OP's rules. So it was even more powerful here.
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  18. #978
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuthillius View Post
    oh wait

    i screwed up the mechanics

    ugh

    welp
    Still confused what happened here. Who did you shoot?
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  19. #979
    <Insert Joke Here> Member Choxorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    But we did a good job of preventing several correct w/w reads. People thought GH couldn't be scum with me or al, for example, not everyone, but enough.
    I didn't get that impression and I'd locked onto GH as scum on day 1, so once the actual serial killer died I thought "alright, Pizza and GH are definitely scum"

    Had no idea on Al and Novice, though.

    Note to self: Al is always the opposite of whatever I think he is.

  20. #980
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Choxorn View Post
    I didn't get that impression and I'd locked onto GH as scum on day 1, so once the actual serial killer died I thought "alright, Pizza and GH are definitely scum"

    Had no idea on Al and Novice, though.

    Note to self: Al is always the opposite of whatever I think he is.
    Well, at lynch or lose it only takes one person hard clearing GH. At least a couple people alive thought it was possible.

    Plus, if the people with correct reads are dead, we're fine. XD

    Pretty much every death that happened, vanilla or not, was very good for our team. Lots of dead had ok reads.
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  21. #981

    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Still confused what happened here. Who did you shoot?
    He shot BSmith, so he killed himself, then it goes to a 3-3 flip and BSmith got lynched.

  22. #982
    Member Member novice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Desperado, SK, and joat vig, odds of all 3 not causing a single mafia death are pretty long. Don't let the scoreboard fool you, we got lucky.
    Yeah I don't think town had too few power roles. Cuthilius claiming desperado was a very unpleasant surprise for us.

    Riedquat, were you aiming for scum with your kills?

  23. #983

    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Pizza, tell me: when you said, "watch for deep wolves" before you lynched were you consciously directing the town toward novice and Al Sipsclar?
    Vitiate Man.

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  24. #984
    kumquattor Member Riedquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Good game everyone!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Also, Riedquat, if a kill is missing, and I claim SK to drive the lynch, I already know who you are and you're no threat to me. Rare situation to be sure, but a townie isn't claiming SK very often.
    I knew it! ;) Little mistake from our host informing me I was dead but I wasn't... I saw it coming but just wanted you dead by my hand and didn't wanted to align myself with these losers!
    returning to the shadows.....

  25. #985
    Member Member novice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Synecdoche View Post
    Not that it matters with no blocking or tracking abilities in play, but for the record it was Al who killed GamerDude on N4.

  26. #986
    Member Member novice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection [In Play]

    That reminds me, thanks for subbing in, @GamerDude. You didn't get to live very long but contributed nicely even so. Unfortunately we had to kill you since we couldn't let a confirmed villager make it to the endgame.

  27. #987
    Member Member novice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    I believe you would have been convinced that no scum team would leave novice alive for LYLO. Maybe not the next round - BSmith would die, having been cleared by Cuth - but final 3 could never have town novice.
    The silver lining of the desperado claim was that it gave us another confirmed villager to night kill before myself. And with a town NAC and a town Novice, one of us would have to make it to the final day. But yeah, Al and I would have tried to win it before the final three.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    GG all, goddammit Novice how did you seem so towny.
    It takes a lot of work... Many factors helped in this game:
    - Not wanting to disappoint my teammates.
    - Less general activity than I'm used to. Makes it possible to construct enough content to outWIM the villagers.
    - No posting at night. Reduces exposure and gives mafia time to recharge.
    - Being a relatively unknown player here.

    I also think not being around at deadline makes it easier to go unnoticed. You can park your vote more strategically without catching flak for it. I managed to participate in multiple mislynches without taking any of the blame. :)

  28. #988
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection: Mafia Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Pizza, tell me: when you said, "watch for deep wolves" before you lynched were you consciously directing the town toward novice and Al Sipsclar?
    It's all WIFOM. I wanted them to second-guess their own hard cleared townies. Like NAC.

    I often make comments as a wolf that allude to my correct partners, particularly the deep ones, in the hopes that people will think I'm misdirecting them.

    If I leave it vague, it can be interpreted lots of ways. Once you start analyzing that, it becomes a red herring.
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  29. #989
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by novice View Post
    That reminds me, thanks for subbing in, @GamerDude. You didn't get to live very long but contributed nicely even so. Unfortunately we had to kill you since we couldn't let a confirmed villager make it to the endgame.
    Agreed. Sooh was extremely busy IRL with her work, and could not continue playing. Town absolutely needed that clutch sub-in or else the game would have been over due to lack of people.
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  30. #990
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tokens of My Confection [In Play]

    @Winston Hughes

    Hardclaimed survivor on d1, did not live to see day 2. Coincidence? I think not.
    #Winstontoostrong
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