Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[novice]

As per suspicions voiced yesterday:
Vote: Autolycus

Zack sounds villagery but unfortunately had the strongest town vibe as scum that I've ever seen in that other game.

...yeah I thought Champ was a strong player based on his first few posts. He has not lived up to initial expectations.

IF Zack is town then GH's switch makes little sense. So Zack/GH are probably both town or both scum. The former then seems most likely, also given everybody's lacklustre effort in general yesterday. The thing that bugged me the most about GH's switch is that he pulled a chaos move that he knew could catch heat just prior to going away. That smacked of a scum hit and run.

[novice]

El Barto, did you heal Manasi? What's going on?

[novice]

IF Zack is town then GH's switch makes little sense. So Zack/GH are probably both town or both scum. The former then seems most likely, also given everybody's lacklustre effort in general yesterday.

That's remarkably crappy logic now that I've had my coffee. Zack as scum and GH as town is certainly a possibility. But given that GH's scumminess is largely dependent on Zack being scum it makes little sense to lynch GH first.

[Jabbz]

Hey folks, sorry for ghosting last game day, Kids graduations and like stuff kept me beyond busy. I've caught up but want to reread some things before I make any serious observations. In order to protect my ass from being booted Vote: Zack for old times sake.

[Montmorency]

Logic - lean town

Montmorency - other than the claim lean scum

BSmith - null

GeneralHankerchief - lean town

El Barto - lean town

Champ - garbage posting, unfortunately not out of his town range but think he should be getting more votes than he has if he's town

Jabbz - null

Manasi - lean town .... i guess

SeveringViper - not crazy about his posts, but the counterclaim seems like something a villager is much more likely to do than a wolf

Novice - lean town

Csargo - null

Autolycus - has posted like once? null i guess

Zack - handsome gentleman

Your reads are lame.

Please do not freaking lynch me.

I was at a highway rest stop eating yesterday when I decided to to check the thread. Caught up with literally 2 minutes to go and I went with my gut. Take a closer look at my wagon, the votes on me are garbage.

Going to sleep now, will try to make another appearance tomorrow afternoon/evening US time.

Maybe - but we still need to lynch you sometime.

But given that GH's scumminess is largely dependent on Zack being scum it makes little sense to lynch GH first.

I disagree.

[Zack]

vote: monty

No one cares that gh lynched a survivor d1, you shouldn't either. It's weird that you feel so strongly about that.

[Montmorency]

Play the game.

[novice]

Yeah I've been wondering if the Monty/GH thing is clumsy distancing. Someone (Logic, I think) mentioned the same thing earlier. Tunneling one player is convenient scum play at any rate. Monty, what is your full suspect list, given that Zack's reads suck?

Here's a player list:

Cuthillius
Seireikhaan
Raith Kemmler
Sooh
---
Logic
Montmorency
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto
Manasi
SeveringViper
Novice
Csargo
choxorn Zack
Autolycus
Champ
BSmith
Jabbz
If all the scum are hiding among the bottom four, I'll be pissed.

[novice]

Speaking of leaving a narrow footprint, here are all of autolycus's posts so far:

Me, I'm a lurker, especially in the early game, but come out with analysis in the late game that gets stronger over time. Basically, I'm a geodude spamming rollout.

vote:Montmorency

Barto, you've played enough with me to know it's the truth. My analyses aren't right, but I do tend to pick up the activity once we enter the mid-game.

Wait, you blocked GH last night, someone died, so now you want him lynched?
And now you want a scanner to claim?

Vote:Montmorency

Mine yesterday was a random vote for a player I'd played with before. Today it's about the idea that GH being blocked last night is evidence of guilt on his part and because both the choxorn and khaan wagon feel like they could have been scum trying to save Monty.

Just trying to get in a "reasonable" vote ASAP and mentioning as few other players as possible.

[Montmorency]

Yeah I've been wondering if the Monty/GH thing is clumsy distancing. Someone (Logic, I think) mentioned the same thing earlier. Tunneling one player is convenient scum play at any rate. Monty, what is your full suspect list, given that Zack's reads suck?

Here's a player list:

Cuthillius
Seireikhaan
Raith Kemmler
Sooh
---
Logic
Montmorency
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto
Manasi
SeveringViper
Novice
Csargo
choxorn Zack
Autolycus
Champ
BSmith
Jabbz
If all the scum are hiding among the bottom four, I'll be pissed.

At first I thought you were posting leans of your own.

Anyway, my leans are in an atrocious state. My only town leans have been Choxorn/Zack and Viper, but at <75%. The rest are neutral or null, except for GH and now maybe Barto.

It's not that I'm tunneling, but that I don't have alternatives.

[Zack]

Play the game.

What is that even supposed to mean?

[novice]

Hey Momty, what's with the bolded statement:

Doesn't inspire much sentiment. And Khaan has another semi-character here:



On the other other hand, this post is like his first Futuramafia posts in that he's complaining about certain tactical decisions for the early game:



But Khaan did always say the best way to play scum roles is to do that which the gut wouldn't believe.

Tally plz GH is making a play for the badge.

This reads like you're holding the door open for a Khaan lynch. Yet in your next post GH is making a play for the badge?

[Montmorency]

But Khaan did always say the best way to play scum roles is to do that which the gut wouldn't believe.

This is a Khaan quote from Futuramafia, where Khaan was scum. I wanted to see how GH would respond in light of his case against Khaan.

He didn't respond, instead saying this to Cuthilius (WHO WAS AGAINST THE CASE AND DIED N1):

If khaan's town, and I point out his lack of character schtick is somewhat worrisome (believe that's the exact phrase I used), and that's his recent history, is that how he hits back at me?

So I tried to warn everyone about GH going for the Pokemon badge, i.e. killing all townies.

Here are my notes on Cuth, btw (I have no other notes):

Cuth: Liked Sooh, novice; liked by novice; weirded by Manasi/Chox; disliked Khaan case by GH; voted Jabbz for non-town but not scummy; Viper sees Cuth-Mont, Logic too?; voted Chox; scumlean by Chox; voted Khaan

[Csargo]

Monty is looking worse today imo.

Zack is here, and looks okay so far. Probably slightly less active than I would expect, but I'll give it time.

Unvote:, Vote: Champ I think he deserves some pressure at this stage. Just dropped a vote on Manasi, and disappeared. Is this how Champ plays?

[novice]

This is a Khaan quote from Futuramafia, where Khaan was scum. I wanted to see how GH would respond in light of his case against Khaan.

He didn't respond, instead saying this to Cuthilius (WHO WAS AGAINST THE CASE AND DIED N1):

So I tried to warn everyone about GH going for the Pokemon badge, i.e. killing all townies.

How did you want town GH to respond then?

[novice]

Unvote:, Vote: Champ I think he deserves some pressure at this stage

I agree, and it bugs me that there are several players for which this is true. Scum can just direct us onto the one who's town.
What do you think of Autolycus?

[Montmorency]

How did you want town GH to respond then?

[Csargo]

I agree, and it bugs me that there are several players for which this is true. Scum can just direct us onto the one who's town.
What do you think of Autolycus?

This is how auto plays, I don't think there's enough to get a good read on him. It's hard to say conclusively with so little information, I have him as null for now.

[novice]

Tally as of post 828:

Lynch votes
3 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency, El Barto, Logic)
2 votes: Champ (BSmith, Csargo)
1 votes: Autolycus (novice)
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz)
1 votes: Montmorency (Zack)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

[novice]

I still don't follow your thought process. If GH was going for the badge, that should mean that Khaan seemed town to you, right? But aren't you yourself pointing out a good reason to suspect Khaan here?

On the other other hand, this post is like his first Futuramafia posts in that he's complaining about certain tactical decisions for the early game

[novice]

This is how auto plays, I don't think there's enough to get a good read on him. It's hard to say conclusively with so little information, I have him as null for now.

Do you agree that he was quick to vote Montmorency for his odd GH reasoning, and that asking Monty for clarification would have been more natural?

[SeveringViper]

He didn't respond, instead saying this to Cuthilius (WHO WAS AGAINST THE CASE AND DIED N1):

If khaan's town, and I point out his lack of character schtick is somewhat worrisome (believe that's the exact phrase I used), and that's his recent history, is that how he hits back at me?

I read that as his trying to defend the case to Cuth by claiming that Khaan wouldn't have responded to him that way as town.

Here are my notes on Cuth, btw (I have no other notes):
Viper sees Cuth-Mont

Wait, eh? Where do you see this?

[novice]

Tally as of post 832, including Champ's vote:

Lynch votes
3 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency, El Barto, Logic)
2 votes: Champ (BSmith, Csargo)
1 votes: Autolycus (novice)
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz)
1 votes: Montmorency (Zack)
1 votes: Manasi (Champ)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

[Zack]

Monty is looking worse today imo.

Zack is here, and looks okay so far. Probably slightly less active than I would expect, but I'll give it time.

Unvote:, Vote: Champ I think he deserves some pressure at this stage. Just dropped a vote on Manasi, and disappeared. Is this how Champ plays?

He can play like this. Easy mislynch when I'm scum.

[Zack]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Montmorency]

I still don't follow your thought process. If GH was going for the badge, that should mean that Khaan seemed town to you, right? But aren't you yourself pointing out a good reason to suspect Khaan here?

Here's a run-down:

GH soft, Khaan response

khaan hasn't done a character schtick yet to start the game which is mildly concerning.

Got tired of people wanting to lynch me for rp'ing.

GH incites: Khaan shouldn't be talking about character shticks.

khaan's most recent past games on the .Org, in reverse order:

- French Revolution Mafia: town, had a character schtick, not lynched
- Visor's Small Mafia Game: town (subbed in), sort of had a character schtick (speaking nothing in smilies, but only for a few posts), not lynched
- Tokens of My Confection: town, made two posts, not lynched
- Futuramafia: mafia, did not have a character schtick, not lynched (was vigged though IIRC)
- Polandball Mafia: town, made two posts, not lynched
- IKEA Mafia: town, did not have a character schtick, not lynched
- Bird Mafia: town, did not have a character schtick, not lynched

This goes back to March 2016. Does not compute.

I was struck by the argument's lack of a nail: Khaan only needs to have taken this consideration at some - any - point in his Mafia career, which has lasted a decade. What was the special significance of recent history?

I wanted to see if GH was willing to make comparisons between Khaan's form and content this game and those of earlier games where he was scum, in particular Futuramafia. The "do what your gut would not believe" line from Futuramafia does not IMO point to Khaan's guilt in this game, certainly not on its face. I wanted to see how GH would interpret it in service of his case.

What turned me against GH was the apparent willingness to ride on the stakes he had already raised. He didn't want or need a more detailed case, just attention and votes on Khaan. Town GH should have seized on the chance to explore Khaan's past behavior.

@Viper: I'm sorry, that was Logic in post 338. I don't know why I thought you first voiced the thought. The second person to bring it up was in fact Choxorn at EOD.

Responding to Cuth: slight alarms going off here. Feels like a forced joke about breaking the spirit or the letter of the rules. If Monty turns wolf, I would not be surprised if Cuth is one as well.

Cuthillius- lean scum, partly for some things Logic pointed out between him and Monty and I'm getting weird vibes from him, too.

[Montmorency]

zack what's going on

[Zack]

He did explore khaan's past behavior, and saying otherwise seems really nitpicky.

[Csargo]

Do you agree that he was quick to vote Montmorency for his odd GH reasoning, and that asking Monty for clarification would have been more natural?

Yeah, he was quick to vote Monty yesterday. I don't know about the second part tbh in regards to auto, considering how he plays. The better question would be do you think it was a valid reason for voting Monty?

[novice]

Yeah, he was quick to vote Monty yesterday. I don't know about the second part tbh in regards to auto, considering how he plays. The better question would be do you think it was a valid reason for voting Monty?

I'm not sure that's a better question, showing an honest process is important, too. And results matter more than both. Anyway, I think the first part of his reason is invalid, the second part is fair enough.

Today it's about the idea that GH being blocked last night is evidence of guilt on his part and because both the choxorn and khaan wagon feel like they could have been scum trying to save Monty.