XCOM Mafia [Concluded]

[Dp101]

what
youre probably doing it right

Reads, please.

[Jowy]

This is one of the most sidelong ways to call someone a wolf I've ever seen.

It is usually better to give someone a chance to explain themselves than just announce them as a wolf.

[Winston Hughes]

Got any suspects, as opposed to town reads?

Monty aside, I've got Manasi, Logic, and Cuth all needing close attention on my read through, plus autolycus looking a fair bit scummier than usual for his quietude, simply because he showed in his champs game that he's capable of so much more.

[Dp101]

It is usually better to give someone a chance to explain themselves than just announce them as a wolf.

Only works if you give them something to explain.

[Dp101]

Monty aside, I've got Manasi, Logic, and Cuth all needing close attention on my read through, plus autolycus looking a fair bit scummier than usual for his quietude, simply because he showed in his champs game that he's capable of so much more.

I think everyone goes a little all-out for champs, I wouldn't expect the same volume both here and there.

[Jowy]

Only works if you give them something to explain.

Why don't you explain it to me in his place then, if it's so obvious.

[crimson_snow]

Forum ate my post, so here is the shorter version:


This pings to me as scummy. I can't put my finger on the "why"

Csargo's "I just wana eat" gif pings to me as scummy.

Dp101 isn't doing himself any favors, but I don't have him as near wolf as you guys do. I think his defensiveness is well within most the town range of most people

Crimson_snow was initially voting for no lynch. Pinged me later with this:



While "contrarian" isn't exactly a wolf-tell, it is a bit anti-town.


I was considering placing a vote on the next highest wagon behind DP101, then I saw it was El Barto, being voted on by Fredwood and Crimson snow, and then immediately declined. Fredwood and Crimson Snow I think are much higher wolf candidates than Barto. Not sure who I'm voting for just yet, but I am going to Unvote: Winston Hughes while I am thinking about it.

Hmm. I can't actually tell if you just didn't read the initial post that supposedly pinged you, or if it's a deliberate misrepresentation. You cite the word contrarian specifically, but I didn't actually use that there. The context of the post also shows that I was deliberately withholding a fact from Pizza until after he gave an answer, rather than it...actually being contrarian in any regard.

[Winston Hughes]

I think everyone goes a little all-out for champs, I wouldn't expect the same volume both here and there.

Nor would I, but he hit ~60 posts in his one day there iirc, with plenty of good juicy content. Reverting to form here doesn't mean he's scum by any means, but it'd be an easy place to hide if he was.

[crimson_snow]

Ah. It doesn't do nested quote things for quotes within a quote. Whatever people can read back if they want the context. I encourage them to do so even.

[crimson_snow]

I don't really get the town reads on Jowy or Cuth. Meta based? Are they generally poor wolves?

[Dp101]

Why don't you explain it to me in his place then, if it's so obvious.

But it isn't obvious, that's what I'm saying. You were acting like you had some proof of his scumminess, but didn't actually lay it out in any way.

[Winston Hughes]

I only have a two game sample on Jowy iirc - one scum, one town (neither of which I played in, btw) - but I read him correctly in both, and this seems a lot more like the latter.

This was about a year ago, though, so his scum game might well have improved considerably in the meantime.

[crimson_snow]

Not a fan of Champ popping in in response to someone mentioning him/asking a fluff question and doing nothing game related while here.

Eh.

Vote: Champ

[crimson_snow]

Not a fan of Champ popping in in response to someone mentioning him/asking a fluff question and doing nothing game related while here.

Eh.

Vote: Champ

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/searc...archid=2516662

Not sure if you can link search ID's on VB or not, but this is his ISO in this game. I think the Manasi vote was RVS, so he has literally one relevant game content post/read in 12 posts - calling Csargo town with no explanation. It feels like a contrast to the energy/enthusiasm he initially had to be posting but not playing the game.

[crimson_snow]

I think that I think that I think Askthepizzaguy is town here.

That might be one too many thinks.

[Jowy]

But it isn't obvious, that's what I'm saying. You were acting like you had some proof of his scumminess, but didn't actually lay it out in any way.

Fyi it's annoying when one guy who doesn't want to answer questions comes to defend another guy who doesn't want to answer questions.

On the topic, scum often hunt for third parties because they already know who the wolves are. So I asked him why as a townie would he be reading someone specifically as a 3P. Maybe I suck, but I have the hardest time differentiating between 3P and townies or 3P and mafia.

[Dp101]

Fyi it's annoying when one guy who doesn't want to answer questions comes to defend another guy who doesn't want to answer questions.

On the topic, scum often hunt for third parties because they already know who the wolves are. So I asked him why as a townie would he be reading someone specifically as a 3P. Maybe I suck, but I have the hardest time differentiating between 3P and townies or 3P and mafia.

Again, you barely had a question, which was why I was poking you in an attempt to get you to spell it out.

Just because scum are the ones who want to find third parties, it doesn't mean that townies cannot end up with a third-party read. Then again, I'm still not hat confident in Pizza being town.

[Jowy]

Again, you barely had a question, which was why I was poking you in an attempt to get you to spell it out.

Just because scum are the ones who want to find third parties, it doesn't mean that townies cannot end up with a third-party read. Then again, I'm still not hat confident in Pizza being town.

Sorry it might be a language barrier issue, to me the question was very literal and clear.

[Cuthillius]

Fact checking, that's not what he did, though?







He gives a reason, namely tone - which is all we've got at this point, according to him. Where's the joke?

except not even

it's just lazy

[novice]

This is not the only place in Jowy's iso where he says one thing but does another.

The other big issue I have is he's asking Auto a ton of questions, after being told that Auto won't respond to pressure, then encourages people to pile up on him without waiting for answers.

That means he's got an agenda, and his process is for show, not something he's doing to solve the game from a zero info standpoint.

His process does not match his behavior, therefore, he's scum.

I'm suspicious of Dp101 but don't feel that the full focus on him is good for us. If he flips town, what have we really achieved today?

I asked Auto to post some reads when he comes back. That's not "a ton of questions". And like I said, I won't take your word on how someone is going to act. Pressuring people generally helps in getting something out of them. Maybe he's an anomaly like you say, but I'd rather find out myself.

Not quite the riposte I was expecting from Jowy, but close enough I suppose.

Actually let me mediate a bit here. Or fuel the fire, we'll see what transpires.

His process does not match his behavior, therefore, he's scum.

Jowy, explain how your behaviour matches your process. How can you scumread Dp, taunt him as he tries to defend, and then decide that we're done bullying him? What is your agenda?

[novice]

except not even

it's just lazy

What? Please form fuller sentences (or thoughts).

[Cuthillius]

I like this post by Cuth, the rest seem well within his scum range.

noting, for the record, that novice has never played with me when i was scum

[Cuthillius]

Monty is a fine third party lynch, but in the past he's been pretty good about wrecking scum and being townsided as third party.

I don't feel he's scum team. I feel he's got no team at all, that's what's shining through his fog.

...

i have no idea how you reached this conclusion in any way

[Cuthillius]

lol

So what I saw with Barts vote and dismissal was a null push and asking non-solving questions? I don't see how, I literally said he was my top scummread today and stated why, then asked if I should rethink the read (no one has even addressed it outside of novice). I thought it was based on his lax pressure vote and ignoring of my response (which I thought was a bit scum), then cleared 3 people that I likely think are town. I have no input on the meta-analysis that is rampant currently, and I still gave my strongest reads with rather specific reasons for them.

And I am scum hunting, this is why I'm asking you this question. In my mind it was super specific in the reasons I was voting and not voting for those people (with the exception of CS),for you to say it wasn't either means there's a disconnect either intentionally or unintentionally. If it was a bad read for bad reasons, I can handle the critique, it's kind of why I'm playing here, to actually get better.

i dislike this post

it takes argument, has a certain level of pushback and aggression without being too in the face, EMPHASIZES the effort and work he's done

but then again

i take that with a grain of salt

i've made posts almost exactly like this, which is why it pops out at me, but at the same time that could just be me projecting those thoughts onto the canvas of fredwood

[Jowy]

Not quite the riposte I was expecting from Jowy, but close enough I suppose.

Actually let me mediate a bit here. Or fuel the fire, we'll see what transpires.


Jowy, explain how your behaviour matches your process. How can you scumread Dp, taunt him as he tries to defend, and then decide that we're done bullying him? What is your agenda?

There wasn't much else going on in the thread. Didn't mean to taunt btw, just wanted to hear in his own words how he's feeling.

[Cuthillius]

What? Please form fuller sentences (or thoughts).

this is the sequence

pizza asks people for townreads

dp gives a longish thought out reply

monty says dp town

when asked why, given the out of "tone"

he seizes it with vigor

monty usually at least provides curt replies with reasoning

here it just feels like

there was a post by town that looked towny

he said man i need to find a towny post that looked towny

so he called the guy who made said post town

and had no real justification for doing so otherwise

like legit i don't doubt that the read is... real

it just feels easy, it feels lazy, he does the "all we've got babe" thing instead of literally anything else

ech

[Jowy]

...

i have no idea how you reached this conclusion in any way

Glad I'm not the only one after all.

[Cuthillius]

vote:csargo

[Cuthillius]

i also fail to see how anyone's scumreading jowy here

there are some posts that are...awkward, sure

but on the whole he's making valid points, he's not freaking out, he's not slipping out of a towny perspective, or backing off of hard ideas he's pushing

he has a certain aggressive poise itt that'd both be hard to fake as scum and just comes across as really fluidly town

[novice]

this is the sequence

pizza asks people for townreads

dp gives a longish thought out reply

monty says dp town

when asked why, given the out of "tone"

he seizes it with vigor

monty usually at least provides curt replies with reasoning

here it just feels like

there was a post by town that looked towny

he said man i need to find a towny post that looked towny

so he called the guy who made said post town

and had no real justification for doing so otherwise

like legit i don't doubt that the read is... real

it just feels easy, it feels lazy, he does the "all we've got babe" thing instead of literally anything else

ech

Thanks. And calling Monty's vote a joke was just shorthand for a vote with minimal justification?