That much seems obvious
No do you expect the Netherlands to have any influence. The deal with Russia has always been that 'whe' the west would never creep up on them. The AA treaty basicly makes the Ukraine a member-state and a military partner. There more reasons why we said no to it including just hating the EU but (which will be ignored, referendum is not binding) there very good other reasons as well but these only concern us really
Putin demands compensation for the damage caused by US sanctions:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ru...KCN1231HA?il=0
No chance of that happening.
"Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
-Abraham Lincoln
Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.
The first no, the second yes. Our mp is cornered on the latter because nobody wants it here, only the EU does. You must not have heard of it but it's a major issue here. Biggest issue is simply that we said no to it, for various reasons, often just hate for the EU I'll admit that
Last edited by Fragony; 10-10-2016 at 12:32.
EU is not a military alliance and doesn't have its armed forces, so the part in the Ukraine-EU AA which you are so afraid of concerns security issues, not military ones. Anyway, we both read the corresponding part of the agreement and had a discussion of it, if you remember.
Meanwhile in Russia:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ring-pre-teen/
Putin cancels his visit to France.
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/intern...ift-over-syria
Now we had it - finally Putin admits Russia was involved into Donbas.
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1476316494
So much for rioting populaces of scared Russian-speakers.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
He had said it in 2015, so I wouldn't link to the information that old. The latest claim of his (two passages above the one you referred to) is that "they were forced to defend the Russian-speaking population of Donbas". How can you defend somebody on the territory of another country but by sending troops?
Ptuin rhetoric on Donbas shows the same tendency as with Crimea: in March 2014 he said that Russian army didn't participate in besieging Ukrainian military bases - it was local militias (who were dressed in Russian-looking uniforms bought in stores) and that there are no Russian army units in Crimea (except those of the navy); in April he said that "behind local militias stood Russian soldiers", and later (don't remember the exact date, it seems it was in August 2014) he said that they NEVER denied Russian troops played the crucial role in overrunning Crimea.
I was being facetious.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
I got it.
Meanwhile PACE acknowledges war in Donbas for what it is - Russian aggression:
http://uatoday.tv/politics/political...ne-785449.html
What day is it?
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Well as it looks the Netherlands won't be participating in the sneaked in military part of the treaty, but that is not enough. We were pretty clear about what we don't want to be a part of
A film on how much Russia is involved in Donbas:
http://www.france24.com/en/20161014-...kraine-weapons
At 2.40 a curious conversation in which separatists contrive shelling of their own positions to blame it on the Ukrainian army.
Gil'
In point of fact, I haven't really doubted, ever, that Russia has been manipulating the whole thing, from the start, to acquire all of Ukraine East of the Dneper along with the Crimea. They want to own/control virtually all of the industrialized portion of Ukraine while leaving Western Ukraine as perpetually weak as Moldava so as to have a nice buffer for themselves.
The real issue, and this is very much the sticking point, is what the heck to do about it.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
I linked the film since there are some people (even on these boards) who still believe that what Ukraine is experiencing is a civil war waged by the oppressed Russian speakers against Kiev nazis.
As to what to do - no one knows that. The only way I see is to outlast Russia hoping it will be burdened by its own problems too much to pay serious attention to Ukraine. One of such problems may be the change of leadership.
Those elements do exist in the current conflict, but I think you would find very few people -- even on these boards -- who could actually believe that the whole internal portion of this squabble could have amounted to anything like this without Russia aiding and abetting for their own benefit (or maybe even having fomented it).
Regrettably, there are any number of European governments who are willing to "officially" accept that fig leaf -- because the alternative (action against Russia) is too scary. The USA doesn't accept the fig leaf -- but still isn't willing to take decisive action.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
The association treaty IS an action against Russia, and yes that scares me, granted. A Russisn leader can never look weak he doesn't have the luxory. Ukrainian, nazi's, what to say.
Getting really dangerous https://mobile.twitter.com/NATO/status/789170642897686529?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Smoke on the water (performed by Russia):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ical-problems/
On one of the principal Putin's aides:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...v-east-ukraine
Very big lol, our much beloved PM starts talking about what vaccuum-bombs do when being asked why the associating-treaty is so important, not just a trade-agreement dear president hmmmm? We (those who trust blogs more than state-media and quality newspapers) already knew that and said no to what you said all the time. It's true though for a change, vaccuum-bombs really suck. But what does that have be with something that is just a 'trade agreement', how obvious can you admit that it's more. People who don't watch state-tv and don't read quality newspapers already knew that. Now some of those who as well but they probably just want to bake a pie becsuse of someones birthday. No you stephord wives it's not just a trade-agreement and people who know that at least TRIED to stop it
Last edited by Fragony; 10-30-2016 at 20:55.
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