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Thread: Visor's Small Mafia Game [Concluded]

  1. #1411
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Dat's OK. You're pretty much the only read I got right the whole game long, so I can't be mad.

    From that Giraffe game to this, eek.

  2. #1412

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    I rolled scum 2/3 of the last games, and both times with Pizza: it probably deserves a silly name. I anticipated him revving up and of course he 'forced' me to work hard after reaching full spin on D3. I feel like I was better-prepared for it this time than in Futurmafia, though of course that game was longer and fairly role-heavy. To be frank, Pizza largely delivered the touchdown for us to run down the clock. I can't deliver that kind of workflow.

    El Barto may have been a bit too consistent in his full performance, which seems to be one of the things that cracked at the very end.

    Visor is right about me on townies in terms of development for endgame alternatives, but in terms of the thread I only remember defending DP101, which wasn't difficult for me to channel (I defended atheotes very briefly early D1). Maybe it seemed like I was buddying Renata - if so, it was due to her vigor in driving the game, her compliance with many of our goals, and her being fun to play with. Thank you and good game Renata.

    She lived because we never saw the need to test the bulletproof, though it was largely unsustainable for the endgame alternatives I mentioned. After Pizza was saved we almost felt like hog wild.

    Good game from Visor and all.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  3. #1413
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    It was so cozy in your pocket. Sigh.

  4. #1414
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Remember, you were only endgamed, so technically, we were far too sentimental about you to actually kill you.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  5. #1415
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    <3 you all too. Thanks for running the game/thanks for playing with me.

  6. #1416

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    To expound more on choosing to defend DP101: it made perfect sense to me to do so from (my) town POV.

    I believe what I said for motivations was correct; the problems that arose had to do with PIS but in the sense that I could see the direction the thread discussions were moving and after mid D3 I had trouble figuring a way to adapt my theory to the changing circumstances as a townie would. In the end, too complicated, so I took the lazier route of minor modifications. By D4 it was already difficult to articulate how this theory would apply as a function of scum teams, and I was beginning to argue myself into a corner by admitting that Newyn-Khaan-Pizza was looking defunct. That I wasn't mercifully killed that last night in place of atheotes was perhaps the largest tell against me in the game.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  7. #1417
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    I think clearing atheotes that hard by practically begging for his vote had the unintended side effect of also giving several other people a basic explanation for why they could still possibly be alive as town.

    "Reasons why you're still alive" are an overlooked component of scumming. Like being the claimed tracker in Futurama or a claimed weak investigator in Ciretako, or a claimed vig here, why are you not dead is an important question that always needs to be addressed.

    Mafia want to avoid ever being categorized as "must-murder" targets. If they are, they need a damned good reason to continue not being the murder.

    I do want to say I was trying to go for something more useful, and it wasn't my intended idea. But I don't think anyone lynches atheotes after that round, so it was important to take him out.

    The other important concept of "who can possibly be my partner" needs to be as many of the live players as possible. All the murders were aimed at removing people from the game who would never, ever look like my partner if I died first. That seems simple, but it is often times overlooked in favor of power role hunting or strong player killing.

    The effect of the lynch of a scumbag should, in the best case scenario, make it harder for town to solve it, or at least, not any easier. The wrong people should be spewed townie, not the right people, or ideally, no one should be. Any groups of people who are clearing each other (Zack/Stork) or wouldn't look like my scum partner ever (Scarlett/Sipsclar/atheotes) were more important to kill than anyone else. You always assume you're going to finally pay for all the bad things you've done, but the end result should be a board relatively free of cleared townies.

    If mashes have done anything to improve my understanding of scum theory, it is: Do not murder your mislynches. And don't look so townie that it becomes a problem for people to grasp why you're still breathing.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  8. #1418
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Also lol me for thinking Renata was a tracker.

    To my credit, I played it like it was possible she was a tracker, watcher, bulletproof, or SK. I chose the option that defeated all of those possibilities just in case I was wrong on any of them.

    Block there, kill elsewhere. It can't go very wrong. Just play it safe.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  9. #1419
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    If nothing else, I've set myself up well to be able to do nonsensical counterproductive things as mafia, should I ever find the courage. :)

    What's a mash?

  10. #1420

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Also lol me for thinking Renata was a tracker.
    Finally I did want to ask in-thread something to verify that all the discussion on Pizza was ultimately backed up by a role result (there were subtle indications that Renata had nothing beyond Pizza's spew), but I'm glad I just ignored that line of discussion. Nothing to be gained from raising the issue, especially when so far only Pizza has been talking about it.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  11. #1421
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Btw its highly unusual for someone with a vest to claim it under no pressure.
    ...
    She's playing games with your heart.
    Me, to Monty in the scum qt. Lol me so much.

    I get it now. She was trying to handshake with Zack's role. That's not a usual situation to find myself in though.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  12. #1422
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    I was trying to find me a townie or two. So sad you kept killing them.

  13. #1423

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    I also refrained, early in D3 before Pizza claimed, from suggesting that one of Stork or Zack killed the other (i.e. vig). It would not have added anything from either town or scum game.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  14. #1424
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    If nothing else, I've set myself up well to be able to do nonsensical counterproductive things as mafia, should I ever find the courage. :)

    What's a mash?
    They are generally very large, 40/50 players to 80 players, something like that, where the scum team is roughly 1/3 of the total number of players.

    As compensation, the town has Shots.

    During the Day phase, for a couple select hours each day, people are allowed to take shots at one another publicly. The shots have like a 15 percent chance of actually hitting, and no guarantee it kills the person it hits, due to daytime protective roles, bulletproof, or whatever.

    A dozen people probably die every day before the lynch even happens. You can kill multiple scumbags in a day phase, and you pretty much have to in order for town to have a chance at winning the game.

    Town usually has multiple cop peeks in play, doctor, day vigilante, night vigilante, and so forth. Scums are similarly loaded up, day vigilante in addition to the team kill, night vigilante, certain-night-only vigilantes, roleblockers, role cops, day protective roles, night protective roles, triple-voter, etc.

    They can be fun, but they're also way more chaotic than a regular game. They also tend to run some 10,000-40,000 posts or something crazy like that, in the span of a week or so. The game, while massive, is typically over for most players within a few real life days.

    You don't bother to try to read every post. You note when the shots are open each day phase, you show up, and you try to shoot a scumbag (or a townie, if you're scum), and walk away happy that you caused someone's untimely death.

    Probably the only game where a vanilla townie can personally execute more than one scumbag by their own hand, with no assistance, vote or otherwise. It's rare, but it can happen.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  15. #1425
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Your attitude basically has to be "killin people is fun" and not take it too seriously.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  16. #1426
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Sounds promising. I did sign up for that PR game Dp was talking about in the hopes I'd be a serial killer, lol. Watch me be town seer. Bah!

  17. #1427
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    GG all, thanks for hosting Visor.

  18. #1428
    Member Member novice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    GG, everyone. It was an interesting game, and it was very comfortable being able to observe and sub in without being emotionally invested in its outcome. And well done to everyone on handling three replacements without the game feeling like a train wreck.

    Fun thought: In an epic alternate reality, Newyn fake claims inventor on the final day, and town goes on to win. :)

  19. #1429
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    And here I was sure that Pizza/Renata was a bus... looks like I couldn't read a thing this game, shame that. Thanks for hosting, Visor.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  20. #1430

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    why are you not dead is an important question that always needs to be addressed.

  21. #1431
    <Insert Joke Here> Member Choxorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Wow, Barto and Monty? Never would have guessed that, you guys did a GOAT-level job of distancing from each other in a way that it made it look like you could never be scum together.

    Also Khaan and Newyn were scummier than you were by leaps and bounds, but that's another story.

  22. #1432
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by novice View Post
    GG, everyone. It was an interesting game, and it was very comfortable being able to observe and sub in without being emotionally invested in its outcome. And well done to everyone on handling three replacements without the game feeling like a train wreck.

    Fun thought: In an epic alternate reality, Newyn fake claims inventor on the final day, and town goes on to win. :)
    Your next challenge is to have me rand town in a game with you and be confident I actually am town with the same ease that you seem to sniff out my bullshit.

    XD

    Do this and ye shall be greatly rewarded, maybe. Don't ask me, I'm not in charge of the universe. Yet.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  23. #1433
    Member Member novice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    I have to admit I'm curious what your town game looks like. :) Do you have any past town games that are good reads?

  24. #1434
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    I can't remember the last time I was an effective townie. I'll look though.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  25. #1435
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    I was maybe 50% effective, 50% terrible in this game. But I was a townie and we did win, and I did get murdered, probably only because I was a mason, so bad example. I did get a ping of scummy off of GH on day 1 and pushed it hard, but I got distracted by the shiny. 4 scums and a SK needed to be lynched/vigged.

    I was town and ineffective, even though I had good reads here. Surprisingly not recruited in a cult game, which is usually impossible. Town v mafia v cult. I blame less active town for our struggles there.

    I don't play as often as I used to, or I'd have more town games to show you. Here's a hydra game where I was town with Sooh and found a scum day one, once again failing to convince anyone.

    That should be a sample of my most recent town work.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  26. #1436
    winston 4 champs Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    though i think his scum game he cares even less
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    it is an interesting juxtaposition that he cares so much about the votes while simultaneously not caring who is lynched
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    wut

    people should care who get lynched

    how am i the one with a "really weird attitude"
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    like you don't find anything wrong with him not being able to find anything to say other than commenting on incorrect tallies? how is that such a weird observation for me to make??

  27. #1437
    winston 4 champs Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    To expound more on choosing to defend DP101: it made perfect sense to me to do so from (my) town POV.

    I believe what I said for motivations was correct; the problems that arose had to do with PIS but in the sense that I could see the direction the thread discussions were moving and after mid D3 I had trouble figuring a way to adapt my theory to the changing circumstances as a townie would. In the end, too complicated, so I took the lazier route of minor modifications. By D4 it was already difficult to articulate how this theory would apply as a function of scum teams, and I was beginning to argue myself into a corner by admitting that Newyn-Khaan-Pizza was looking defunct. That I wasn't mercifully killed that last night in place of atheotes was perhaps the largest tell against me in the game.
    I'd argue that your "town POV" is meaningless when you're not town. Your strategy as a wolf isn't to mirror your town game, it's to keep your team alive and kill townies. Though you won so what do I know.

  28. #1438
    winston 4 champs Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    anyways I don't think I played particularly well

    gg wolves

    gg renata

  29. #1439
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    They knew what they were doing when they killed you, Zack.

  30. #1440
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    I think everyone on the scum team admitted to being scum at various points in time. I also opened the game with lolcats, an open admission that I was scum, and I even hardclaimed neutral survivor to break the curse.

    @Visor
    gg your game is over
    #Winstontoostrong
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