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Thread: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

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    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans!

    As we continue to creep closer to the open beta, we would like to begin recording contact information for those of you who wish to be a part of our closed beta group. This group may receive a version of EB prior to the open beta being released, to help us hammer on it and get rid of major bugs, and will have access to future betas, all of which we plan to be closed betas.

    You may find a signup area in our public forums. Please be aware that we will keep this group relatively small, and it will be made up of people who have time to commit to actual playtesting (both general and focused on what we desire at the time). If you're just in to get your hands on EB before everyone else, and provide no feedback, you will be removed from the group and never be allowed to participate in future betas. This also goes for anyone who shares the version before it is publically available.

    We also invite those of you who have a background in historical research to sign up. We would definitely like to invite some of our long-term fans to join. If you cannot commit to the things we request above, however, please do not add your name to the list.

    We are happy to say that things seem to be coming together, that we are overcoming the obstacles that newly discovered limitations have presented, and a playable open beta is now closer to reality than ever. We are not yet ready to announce a release date, however.

    This week, the EB team is proud to present:



    Alexandros knew. The key to his empire lay in Babylonia, not in Makedonia. After his death, Seleukos, another Makedonian, fought to regain Babylon for himself, and in 312 the city welcomed him with open arms and great joy. He repaid that generosity, retaking Susiana and then Media, pushing the limits of his new empire back to the Indos and then west to Syria, claiming much of Anatolia as his own. As a great old king he passed the throne to his son Antiochos seven years ago. Now the new king, of Makedonian and Persian blood, and master of an empire that stretches from the shores of the Aigaion to the borders of the Indos itself, must struggle to hold together his father's glorious gains. The wisdom of Achaemenid advisors, and now ancestors, will continue to guide this young empire and her army, but one thing must be remembered: Babylonia is still the key, even now, to the greatest empire in the world.

    Alexandros' vision of a strong infantry combined with a Persian willingness to use local soldiers and their own styles of warfare have given the great king a powerful army for his empire. Persian light infantry and men from across the empire fighting in the Makedonian phalanx will be your basic footsoldiers. Greeks who have settled in Syria will form the bulwark of your regular troops and the best of their number, trained at the highest levels, are equipped for use as Argyraspidai, the famed "silver shields" and the legendary Hypaspistai. With the strong and fast Thureophoroi and their heavily armored cousins, the Thorakitai, few armies in the world can match your forces. Recruit skirmishers from across your empire and combine them with your cavalry forces, which include Median armored Lonchophoroi and Greek cavalry armored in the manner of the Kataphraktoi, to complete your mighty forces.

    A great king must not allow his provinces to rebel, as petty princes are attempting to do in the "kingdoms" of Pontos, Baktria, and Armenia. Such is the burden of ruling a vast empire and you will not have the luxury of dealing with your enemies one at a time. Crucial decisions must be made in dealing with these rebellious princes; will you allow them begin their own empires, perhaps lessening your greatness, or will you risk your armies in an attempt to bring them to heel. The Ptolemaioi to the south were once allies to your father, but they now see their best hopes of expansion coming at your expense. They will send countless soldiers across the desert into the middle of your realm; if you are to preserve your Empire, they must be turned back, especially in southern Anatolia. Expand where you are able; some nearby cities are prime targets, isolated as they are from allies. Also, it would be unwise to take lightly the beating of hooves from the north. Our heavy cavalry have a difficult time standing against the great hordes of Armenian, Sarmatian, and especially Parni horsemen, and letting too many fall defending the northern borders will leave the Empire’s heartland exposed to attack from the treacherous Ptolemaioi. But take heart, great king! The blood of Alexandros and the Achaemenid rulers of the past will aid your throne, which is the greatest in the known world! Take heart, and prosper!

    It may be in your best interest (if you wish) to reflect upon the history of your new empire. Great Seleukos built up his base of power among the elites and non-Greeks of Babylon in the years after the death of Alexandros in 323. The prize for his role in the murder of the regent Perdikkas two years later was the satrapy of Babylonia. He earned the favor of its citizens, and though he was forced out by Antigonos in 315, Antigonos and his violent behavior towards Babylon resulted in the reclaimation of the city by Seleukos in 312 with just a handful of soldiers. But Antigonos was not directly opposed in his actions against Seleukos, and it was left to Seleukos to contend with him directly in 'Asia' for a number of years without intervention of the other states. Seleukos' role in these years seems to have been focused on developing his possessions in Central Asia, further expanding his network of allies and base of power. While in the Upper Satrapies of Central Asia, he saw much potential for growth and expansion and he later put this experience to good use. But a final battle with Antigonos was sure to occur, however slow it was in developing.

    In 301, after the Battle of Ipsos, when Kassandros, Lysimachos, and Seleukos defeated Antigonos and Demetrios, Seleukos finally was rid of the enemy that had plagued him for so many years. Antigonos, an octogenarian at the time, fell on the battlefield, while Demetrios escaped with a small portion of the army. Seleukos received Koile-Syria and Phoinikia, but as soon as he arrived there, Ptolemaios claimed the area as his own, and Seleukos agreed to not contest the claim "because of their friendship." Seleukos spent the time after Ipsos consolidating his eastern possessions and sending out numerous colonies across his domain. He capture Demetrios in 286 whereupon the latter was slain, and then he took advantage of uncertainties in Anatolia. He invaded western Asia Minor and defeated and killed Lysimachos in 281 at the Battle of Koroupedion near Sardis. Before the battle, Selelukos had already appointed his successor, and now the torch has been passed. The Seleukid dream of capturing Makedon itself was not to be fulfilled just yet though, as Seleukos was slain by a dispossessed heir of Ptolemaios who had sought the aid of Seleukos, but now it does lie within your grasp if you choose to direct your interests toward the west. Your father's legacy was considered the greatest of his age, and it is up to you to match his success.

    "In my view, it is beyond dispute that Seleukos was the greatest king of those who succeeded Alexandros, of the most royal mind, and ruling over the greatest extent of territory, next to Alexandros himself." (Arrian, Anabasis VII.22,5)

    Here we have a few action shots:





    Some of the units you will find in the Seleukid armies:


    The most basic and numerous of the infantry units used by the non-European Successor States were the Pantodapoi infantry. These men were called from a variety of nationalities and were usually settled in certain areas for garrison duties and the like. There were Jews, Syrians, Cilicians, Persians, Assyrians, Native Egyptians, and many other peoples counted among their number. They are not particularly reliable soldiers, but they are certainly better than their eastern counterparts. They can give a good account of themselves in battle if deployed properly. They wear no armor, and have only a light shield for protection, so most other infantry will slaughter them in droves. They can fend off light cavalry for a time, if need be.

    Historically, the Pantodapoi were a group of various nationalities that were used as a militia levy and defensive group for towns and villages prone to raiding. While the name is conceptual (meaning, from everywhere), they were a standard fighting force of the day. They were trained rudimentarily, but had enough training to be counted as superior to many militia levies. They had some experience fighting off nomadic raiders, so they can be useful against light troops and some light cavalry.


    Pantodapoi Phalangitai are the standard levy of the Seleucid Kingdom and others influenced by the Successors, including Pontus. They are tough and reliable infantry, but are prone to rebellion and discontent and are hence more expensive than their Macedonian contemporaries. They are mostly levies of Jewish, Syrian, and Persian descent that are co-opted into the army. They fight as pikemen, with a soft leather cuirass, pikes, round Illyrian style shields and Phrygian caps. This makes them a viable pike unit, though they are less disciplined and more prone to flee than more reliable Greeks and Macedonians that make up the Pezhetairoi. They can be counted upon to present a solid wall of spear points to the enemy, but their lack of discipline and intensive training makes them even more prone to a flanking attack.

    Historically, the Seleucids and others used pike levies from their various subject peoples to make up parts of the battle line that were facing the enemy’s least valuable troops. They gave decent accounts of themselves at many battles, but were the first line to break in the disasters at Raphia against the Ptolemies and in Macedonia against the Romans. They made up more and more of the Seleucid battle line as time went on, due to the dwindling number of Greek recruits that the army could draw upon for the pike units (most went to the more elite units), and more and more Asiatic peoples were put into the Pezhetairoi class and given land grants, to make up the loss. Still, these more unreliable formations were still used in many places.


    The peltast is a type of elite skirmisher that sacrifices heavy arms and armor for mobility and range. They are armored in linen and carry a medium sized ovular shield. Originally, they carried a crescent shaped ‘pelta’ that gave them their name, but this was phased out in the fourth century. Their armaments consist of several javelins and a sword. All this makes them light and mobile, but still easily able to engage in melee after their javelins have been thrown. They are a versatile unit but one must remember that their primary arms are javelins, and they are not equipped to stand toe to toe with heavier infantry. Their role is one of speed, harassment, and critical flanking maneuvers.

    Historically, the Peltast was often a hoplite or Pezhetairoi phalangite equipped to fight in the manner of a skirmisher. This meant that they were extremely adept melee combatants as well as being deadly with their javelins. Peltasts were used to great effect on ancient battlefields but by 270 B.C. the Thureophoroi was becoming the dominant ‘melee’ skirmisher and the Peltast was carrying more javelins and was used in a manner that was consistent with this. This was simply a matter of specialization, and it did not mean that peltasts would be any less effective if deployed correctly. Their light armament makes them extremely fast, but tends to be to their detriment in melee combat. They were mostly used in the role of supporting missile troops who charged in at the last moment, after they had spent all their javelins. The great Athenian general Iphikrates is credited with the invention of the peltast as a distinct unit, and it is he that first employed them in this manner to great effect against the heavier armored and better trained hoplites of Sparta.


    Pezhetairoi are the bread and butter military unit of the Successor States. They are well disciplined and highly motivated pikemen that are armed and armored to the teeth. They are armored in a linen cuirass, a Thracian cap, a bronze greave on the right leg, stout boots, good bracers, and reinforced shoulder pads made from hardened linen (due to their experience with the deadly curved swords of Thrace). They have Illyrian style round shields attached to their bodies by leather straps that help support the weight of the shield and keep their hand free to grasp the sarissa. They are defensive infantry par excellent. They are the anvil of the two part Macedonian system of warfare, the heavy cavalry being the hammer. They should be used to anchor enemy soldiers while the Theurophoroi harass the flanks and the heavy cavalry smashes into the flanks and rear.

    Historically, the Pezhetairoi are the classic Alexandrian phalanx. They were used to great effect against the Persians, Medes, Bactrians, Indians, Phoenicians, and many, many others. They are an effective force and have not changed much over the centuries. The Romans were able to defeat them as easily as they did for two main reasons. One, the Roman army was at a high state of readiness and tactical prowess after defeating the Carthaginians. Two, the heavy cavalry arm of the Successor armies had degenerated to the point where they were no longer able to field significant numbers to fulfill their part of the hammer and anvil tactic of Alexander. There were many small reasons, numbering among them the misuse of the Theurophoroi, the underuse of Peltasts, and the lax state of warfare that the Successor states were used to. In any case, the phalanx was not as anachronistic or inflexible as widely believed; it was simply used in the wrong way. In the thirteenth century onwards, pikemen in similar formations were able to work wonders with more capable generals and a better cavalry arm. Do not under appreciate pikemen, for they are still a war winning force.


    The Seleucids took to the thureophoroi and went one better, armoring their improved unit to the teeth and giving him a longer spear with a wider blade. These men are exceedingly well trained and often can make the difference in any battle simply by making their fearsome appearance known. They carry theuros shields with silver medusa heads emblazoned on the front and wear helmets that are strengthened with mail ‘veils’ further making their appearance fearsome. As if this was not enough, they carry heavy javelins to break enemy lines and long spears to drive the charge home when they are finished with their javelin throwing. They fight in an organized formation, but not in a phalanx, and are thus more mobile than the Phalanx. They are the best and fittest men within the Hypastistai and are often able to break an enemy line. They have no real weakness in battle, but are extremely expensive to maintain, so their numbers are always few and far between. They should be used as an elite shock infantry, because this is the role for which they were made. They should be well supported, because if these hardy and grizzled veterans rout, it could induce the rest of the army to do so as well!

    Historically, the Seleucid Thorakitai Argyraspidai were a small elite unit of the Hypastists that were the leaders of an infantry charge. Their heavy armor was elaborate and expensive, making their numbers never more than one thousand (among six thousand Hypastistai). They were used during many battles, but were notoriously absent from Raphia due to their being refitted after a battle with rebels supported by the Parthians. They slowly dwindled in number as the kingdom’s finances did the same. They were no longer a factor when the Seleucid king fought the Romans in Macedonia, a battle at which they would have been sorely appreciated. If a capable ruler were to take the Seleucid throne and carefully manage the kingdom’s finances, perhaps he could utilize these fine soldiers far longer than happened historically.


    Hypastistai are the elite spearmen of the Macedonian and Seleucid armies. They are armed and armored much as traditional hoplites, but with a few notable differences. Their secondary arm is a Celtic style longsword, adopted from the Galatians. They are armed with the traditional hoplite shield, and are armored with a metal cuirass. They are versatile and elite soldiers, often forming the right wing of the Hellenic battle line. Their heavy armor and weapons allows them to fight as elite spearmen or swordsmen, and they are able to fight the hardiest opponents. They should be deployed where the fighting will be at its absolute thickest, as they are able to charge in for a kill once the enemy has exhausted himself on their spear points!

    Historically, the Hypastistai were the elite foot guard of the Macedonian king, armed much like fifth century hoplites. Alexander changed their armor and weapons to allow them to fight in the deserts of the Middle East. When Alexander was killed and the Seleucids and Macedonians inherited the elite forces, they mostly wiped one another out in internecine squabbling. Still, the tradition was there, and it was re-adopted by the successor armies in Macedon and Syria. Their equipment went through a further revolution, re-adopting heavier armor. They now wore the less expensive and easier to produce (in relation to bronze plate) scale or mail armor that only provided a slightly smaller degree of protection. They were last used operationally during the time of Philip V, due to the expense of keeping such a unit around. The Romans never got to feel the bite of the most powerful of the Successor infantry…


    In the Seleucid and baktrian armies, these medium cavalrymen are very prevalent. Descended from the lesser Persian nobility they now render good service to their new masters. They are excellent medium cavalry, capable of skirmishing, charging, and fighting fairly well in melee. These cavalry are raised from the old Persian estates that had not seized by the Macedonian invaders. They are equipped with a cavalry spear and the single bladed Tabar axe with a vicious back-spike, well capable of penetrating heavy armour. The battle-axe was often used, especially by North Iranians. The spear was usually used overarm as a thrusting weapon. The shield used by these horsemen was the crescent shaped Scythian Taka shield. A conical persian helmet of iron is worn with brightly coloured helmet plume. Their armour is a scale cuirass with scaled shoulder guards and stiffened leather pteruges hanging from the waist. Loose richly embroidered trousers and a long sleeved tunic extending down to just above the knees, is secured by a leather belt. The horse has a stuffed Persian saddle and thick, bright coloured saddle cloth. The tails were tied up to prevent it being grabbed by the enemy. The forelock was left long and tired with ribbon to form a plume above the head.

    Historically; The Macedonians came to Persia as invaders, sharing neither a common culture nor a common enemy. These lesser nobles are quick to make cause with any rebel, and the Greek upper class know this well. The Seleucids, and Baktrians intent on Hellenizing Iran, cannot rely on these men who are descended from a proud tradition, the Huvaka, Kinsmen cavalry who had faced Alexander the Great during late imperial times. It is for this reason that the Greeks often preferred to rely on mercenaries and Greek settlers, but these men are still able to be used in some roles and are conscripted in times of need. Some of these minor noble houses have intermarried with their Macedonian overlords and are thus somewhat more loyal than their neighbours might be. Still, they are often present in native revolts, due to the fact that they can often lead these revolts and have fewer opportunities due to their Iranian blood.


    After suffering heavy losses to the Parthian and Armenian Cataphracts, the Seleucid and Bactrian empires produced their own versions of these heavy horsemen, both adapting the unit to Greek technology and using superior metalwork to make them even more heavily armored. They are armored in an expensive combination of lamellar armor and chain, with heavy felt sandwiched in the middle. The resulting armor is tough and flexible, but offers outstanding protection. They are to be used as heavy shock cavalry, and have staying power in melee because of the sheer weight of their armor. They are slightly heavier than their Parthian counterparts, but lack the deadly maces that the Parthians carry and also the élan of their elite Parthian counterparts. Their horses are more heavily armored than those of the Hetairoi, but they lack the characteristic fierceness and discipline of the elite successor cavalry.

    Historically, Hellenistic Kataphraktoi were at least as good as their Parthian enemy, but most Seleucid commanders did not quite understand how to use this cavalry. They won great victories over the Parthians when supporting the heavier and more elite Hetairoi, compelling the Parthians to settle for a peace treaty and suzerainty over some of the Seleucid eastern possessions. They passed into history when most of the unit was bribed by Pompey during his conquest of the east. They formed the basis for the Roman cataphracts of later ages.


    the Hetairoi, or Companions, were the elite noble heavy cavalry of Macedon and the Successor states. They are an elite heavy cavalry that is second to none and arguably the best cavalry of the period. They fight with a degree of élan, discipline, and simple ferociousness that is matched only by the horsemen of Iberia, Carthage, and the best heavy cavalry of some of the eastern nomadic peoples. They are armored from head to toe in iron plate (some still had bronze, but this was falling out of favor rapidly by 250 B.C.), reinforced with mail at key points. Their horses are barded with felt barding and often have bronze plates to protect their heads. Their helmets, with the two plumes, mark them on a battlefield. They are best used as heavy shock cavalry, able to decide many battles with a single charge. They are the second part of the hammer and anvil of Alexandrian battle tactics. They are armed with a xyston and a kopis, and are well able to use both weapons. If these men have any weakness, it is the front of a line of spearmen. Horses simply do not like charging into a row of men armed with big pointy sticks. They are still able to give a decisive blow to the flank and rear of any infantry.

    Historically, the Hetairoi were first created by Philip, following the lead of the cavalrymen of Thessaly, to the south. Philip went one better, armoring them to the teeth and giving them a Xyston, a twelve foot long lance tipped with a large steel head. They were armored head to toe in bronze plate, from helms to cuirass to bracers to greaves. Alexander often replaced this armor with lighter linen when they were traveling, but was quick to replace the bronze in any hard fought engagement. Alexander added little to their equipment but trained them to ride their horses in such a way that each man was an expert horsemen as well as a shock cavalryman. The successors kept this mold, but added mail reinforcement to the bronze armor at the joints before replacing it with iron and added felt and lamellar barding to the horses after encountering horse peoples that did the same. During the third century their usage declined with the successor’s ability to pay for such heavily armored men. They degenerated to such a point where only a handful were present at major battles, and were far from the war winning force that they had been earlier. Perhaps with a bit of luck and more funding, a commander could use them in their true glory once more…

    A few surprises may be found in Seleukid territory:

    Ereipia Babyloniaka (BABYLONIA)


    Artemision Ephesou (LYDIA)


    Varkana Drubustih (Gorgan Wall) (ASTAUENE & HYRKANIA)


    And, a few goodies you may enjoy:





    We would like to remind the fans that we welcome our fans to use the signature images we created; we made them for you to use. Please enjoy them as you wish.

    We hope you enjoyed this week's update.

    Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our news posts are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and will do so long after our initial release.

    Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.

    As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them would be here:

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70

    Or here:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=60

    We give special thanks to http://www.imageshack.us who provide us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

    Have a wonderful day!

    Sincerely,

    -the EB team
    Last edited by khelvan; 05-22-2005 at 20:22.
    Cogita tute


  2. #2
    Last user of scythed chariots Member Spendios's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Wow ! These units are really awesome especially the cataphracts and hipastistai, each week I want to play the faction you present....
    About the Gorgan wall wasn't it built by Parthians ?

    Very good work as always I become more and more impatient to play the beta


  3. #3
    Will Buy Food For Food Member Bouchious's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    man, i don't have time to read the descriptions this minute but god sweet jesus those units look absolutely beautiful you guys are gods

  4. #4
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    wow, great unist again. but about the pezetairoi. in greek (ancient) there is no H. only a "spiritus lenis" or "spiritus asper" at the beginnen for a H or just the first a,e,o,u,i
    so pezHetairoi is useless. and should be pezetairoi. ( for as far as i know. but hellenes shoudl know more about this than me) btw. they have a greave on their Left leg

  5. #5
    Member Member Birka Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    This is exelent work EB. This is my new favorit faction.

  6. #6
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    :D just like bactria was it last week..
    seleucid will get the best possble armie. but the worst starting location. gotta love them. personnaly i couldnt wait for the seleucids, allied hellenes or macedon.
    so 1/3 of my dream has come true.

  7. #7
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    great work!
    shouldn't it be 155 kilometer instaed of kilometre (or schould it be britsch englisch?)
    (grogan wall)

  8. #8
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    YOU"RE LATE but great work, so this time i'll act like i didn't noticed

    We do not sow.

  9. #9
    EB Member... sort of Member Proper Gander's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Quote Originally Posted by Gertgregoor
    ...(or schould it be britsch englisch?)
    let's bloody well hope so.

  10. #10
    Will Buy Food For Food Member Bouchious's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    kilometer is the american spelling, whereas kilometre is british/english spelling, either way it is still pronounced the same.

  11. #11
    Intifadah Member Dâriûsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Once again, beautiful work.
    "The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."


    I only defended myself and the honor of my family” - Nazanin

  12. #12
    Tovenaar Senior Member The Wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Quote Originally Posted by jerby
    wow, great unist again. but about the pezetairoi. in greek (ancient) there is no H. only a "spiritus lenis" or "spiritus asper" at the beginnen for a H or just the first a,e,o,u,i
    so pezHetairoi is useless. and should be pezetairoi. ( for as far as i know. but hellenes shoudl know more about this than me) btw. they have a greave on their Left leg
    Do mind that the spiritus asper adds the 'h' tone to the pronunciation of the word. In other words, when we transliterate from Greek, we must add the 'h' tone or we will not be transliterating correctly.

    And do mind that the jolly old Brit doesn't speak correct English. He not only has whackass grammatical forms (police are? wtf?), but also has allowed his English to degenerate over the years, while in America the good old form was clung onto and subsequently preserved. Never mind the pronunciation -- that's so bad I won't even dare start on the subject.



    ~Wiz
    Last edited by The Wizard; 05-22-2005 at 16:17.
    "It ain't where you're from / it's where you're at."

    Eric B. & Rakim, I Know You Got Soul

  13. #13
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    when you see this maniac running at you..



    it's time to pack your things up and go home.
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  14. #14
    Member Member Sfwartir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Aafyfaendagitt! Absolutely superb units, as usual
    Can't wait to break the Ptolemaioi lines with a great Kataphraktoi charge!

    Was a bit surprised by _Arche_Seleukeia, though. Thought it was Basileia Seleukeion(sp?). Basileia = Kingdom/Empire? I'm not a great knower of Greek, though.

    Anyway, thanks for y e t another splendid faction presentation.

    Sfwartir
    (impatiently awaiting the presentation of the Norvegia Ebrium faction, including the rather amazing, though disturbingly hairy, Naked Drunk Berserkr Fanatic unit.)
    Orgia bona hic in his septem diebus?
    //Any good orgies here this week?//

  15. #15
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    That was one of the possibilties, yes.

    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
    If you should stand then who's to guide you?
    If I knew the way I would take you home."
    Grateful Dead, "Ripple"

  16. #16

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sfwartir
    Was a bit surprised by _Arche_Seleukeia, though. Thought it was Basileia Seleukeion(sp?). Basileia = Kingdom/Empire? I'm not a great knower of Greek, though.
    We found ten possible (though not equally plausible) names for this faction. Here's an excerpt from a recent book on the Seleukids which might have helped push our decision to Arche.

    From Sherwin-White and Kuhrt's "From Samarkhand to Sardis" (1993): (chapter 2: section on 'Defining the Seleucid State') "One factor about the Seleucid kingdom, at least, is indisputable: it was an empire, meeting two of the most basic criteria of imperial rule, i.e. (a) where one state, or central power, encompassing a large territory and incorporating a number of socities, often heterogenous in geography and culture, dominates the others by military conquest and military force, and uses the surpluses of the subordinated 'countries'; (b) there exists some sort of overarching administrative framework, which may be loose or tight. The state is created by conquest (Alexander the Great and Seleucus I) and perpetuated by military constraint (armies, colonies, military expeditions, garrisons), which permits the levy of tribute and service from the subjugated peoples. This broad definition the Seleucid kingdom fits."

    There were contemporary references to the state as a kingdom 'basileia' as well as an empire 'arche'. Actually both exist in loyalty decrees from Ilium - OGIS 219). And basileia was our second highest vote-getting choice, but in the end I'm very glad Arche won out. It has the additional merit (though this was not ostensibly the reason for our choice) of being a closer match for what it's commonly referred to in English today ("empire") than basileia ("kingdom").

  17. #17
    MOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member Idomeneas's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    will i look like a complete jerk if i complain about cataphract horses again?
    μηνιν αειδε θεα Πηληιαδεω Αχιληοs ουλομενην

  18. #18
    Member Member Sfwartir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
    There were contemporary references to the state as a kingdom 'basileia' as well as an empire 'arche'. Actually both exist in loyalty decrees from Ilium - OGIS 219). And basileia was our second highest vote-getting choice, but in the end I'm very glad Arche won out. It has the additional merit (though this was not ostensibly the reason for our choice) of being a closer match for what it's commonly referred to in English today ("empire") than basileia ("kingdom").
    I get your point. I am confused however, as the Byzantine Empire certainly did call itself the 'Basileia Romaion', and its Monarch was an Emperor, or 'Basileus'. Using the Byzantine Empire as an example, it seems like 'Basileia'/'Basileus' are used as terms for Empire/Emperor, rather than King/Kingdom?
    After all, the Byzantine Empire was an actual Empire (as in 'ruled by an Emperor'), whereas Seleukos and his successors were Kings by title (and thus ruled a Kingdom, not an Empire).

    However, as I stated earlier, I'm not an expert on the Greek language. Maybe a proper translation of 'Basileia' lies closer to our term 'Realm' rather than either 'Kingdom'/'Empire'?

    Still, the decision has been made, and by all means, this isn't a crucial point to me. I don't wan't to be considered "difficult" You all do a great job with EB, and I can certainly live (and _happily_ so!) with an Arche Seleukeia

    Sfwartir
    Last edited by Sfwartir; 05-23-2005 at 05:21.
    Orgia bona hic in his septem diebus?
    //Any good orgies here this week?//

  19. #19

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Another Successor army eh? Nicely done as always. I especially enjoyed the Companions.

    There will be elephants too right?

    Will the next week's faction be another Successor state? Can we see another faction type? Perhaps some nomads from the Far Eastern Steppes?
    The Western wind carries with it the scent of triumph...

  20. #20
    Modding Godfather Member Vercingetorix's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1
    YOU"RE LATE but great work, so this time i'll act like i didn't noticed
    No. These are weekend updates; it was posted on the weekend and still is the weekend.
    I have found God.

  21. #21
    Insanity perhaps is inevitable Member shifty157's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    I thought the phalanx formation was hardcoded and could not be edited. Do the overhand animations really work with the formation?

    Speaking of animations, how are the other animations coming along?

  22. #22
    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    You'll have to ask the unit guys about the overhand animation. I know the sarissae and xyston animations are in testing at the moment.
    Cogita tute


  23. #23
    Father of the EB Isle Member Aymar de Bois Mauri's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Quote Originally Posted by shifty157
    I thought the phalanx formation was hardcoded and could not be edited. Do the overhand animations really work with the formation?
    Although some aspects of the phalanx formations are hard-coded, others can be changed to fit our objectives. And there is no problem regarding fluidity of animation or killing power, if that is what you are refering by "really work".

  24. #24

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Ah yes, I understand that though the pikemen are to hold their sarissas with both hands when in combat, they cannot do so when marching?
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  25. #25
    Flying Dutchman Member Ellesthyan's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    basileus is greek for king. Apparently the East Romans didn't care much for the difference between kings and emperors. I think that one can translate it to what suits the most; the meaning of basileus is quite flexible.
    As a side note, the "emperors" of Rome were never actually called emperor, but rather princeps (first man), concul sine collegae, etc.
    A.E.I.O.U.

    Austria Est Imperare Orbi Universo
    Austria is destined to rule the world.

    (Or, as the Prussians interpretated it:
    Austria Erit In Orbe Ultima
    Austria will one day be lowest in the world.)

    Österreich über alles!

  26. #26
    Father of the EB Isle Member Aymar de Bois Mauri's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tomyris Reloaded
    Ah yes, I understand that though the pikemen are to hold their sarissas with both hands when in combat, they cannot do so when marching?
    Yes.

  27. #27
    Tovenaar Senior Member The Wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellesthyan
    As a side note, the "emperors" of Rome were never actually called emperor, but rather princeps (first man), concul sine collegae, etc.
    As a side note to your side note, princeps only means first. The full title of Augustus was princeps senatus, which translates to 'first senate' but was a title given to the most distinguished senator traditionally. It's just another tribute to Augustus' remarkable capability to draw all the power his way without the people really noticing. "Iron fist in a velvet glove," as they say. Just a little note



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  28. #28

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Looking extremely interesting! Well played, me hearties! However, minor niggle, "Gorgan wall" desciption-last word reads "assistence" instead of "assistance". I just thought that if you were making a mod with such gusto, then you'd want every detail correct!
    Unknown Chieftain

  29. #29
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    Will the next week's faction be another Successor state? Can we see another faction type? Perhaps some nomads from the Far Eastern Steppes?
    As much as I'd love to, we are limited by the amount of work done on a faction, and how much stuff we have to show. And we frankly don't have enough of any of the Eastern nomads to show.

    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
    If you should stand then who's to guide you?
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  30. #30
    Son of a Star Member Bar Kochba's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Arche Seleukeia

    these units r cool for this army but have u considerd using jewish units not just for rebels
    "It is not so much that we need to be taken out of exile. It is that the exile must be taken out of us."- Lubavitcher Rebbe


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