Provinces

[Rodion Romanovich]

THIS TOPIC IS NOT YET UPDATED. THE FINAL PROVINCE LIST WILL BE REVEALED LATER.

These are the provinces that'll be included on the map. This is still being discussed and will be updated as changes are made.

Decisions about names: Probably use local names when possible, although for provinces which changed hands a lot it's not clear which name to use with that system. In cases where it's unclear or names aren't available, we stick to English name. For local names, characters like ´ etc. are removed. Å becomes AA or AO, Ä becomes AE or A, Ö becomes OE or O, Ü becomes U or UE.

NORWAY AREA
* Hordaland - Bergen (town) (rebels)
* Hafrsfjord (rebels) - Nord-Jaeren / Stafangr (town) (strong rebels)
* Vaestfold - Kaupang (position close to Oslo but further down the fiord) (large town) (owned by Norway)
* Trondelag - Trondheim (town) (rebels)
* Hologaland (modern Lofoten area and mainland next to it) - Narvik (better city needed) (village) (rebels)
* (PERHAPS REMOVE THIS ONE:) Northern Norway - Tromso (village) (rebels)
* Finnmark (rebels) - Kirkenes (situated next to Barents Sea and modern Russian border) (village) (rebels)

DENMARK AREA
* Sjaelland (Zealland) - Roskilde (town) (owned by Danes)
* Holsetaland (modern Nordfriesland, in modern Schleswig-Holstein area) - Haithabu / Hedeby (was the largest nordic city of the viking age, will have much importance and fairly large population, large town or city) (owned by Danes)
* North Jutland (better province name needed) - Aalborg or Viborg (settlement will have good fortifications, was historically part of Danish fortification systems in the area, town) (owned by Danes)
* Middle Jutland - Jelling (town) (owned by Danes)

ICELAND AREA
* Iceland - Reyjkjavik (village/town) (rebels)

IRELAND AREA
* Midhe (Meath) - Teamhaidh (Tara) (rebels)
* Ulaid (Ulster) - Armagh (strong viking rebels)
* Laigin (Leinster) - Ferns (strong viking rebels)
* Muma (Munster) - Cashel (rebels)
* Connaught (Connacht) - Tuam (owned by Irish)
* Dubh Linn - Dubh Linn (viking rebels)

SPAIN AREA
* Navarre - Pamplona (strong rebels)
* Leon - Santiago de Compostela (Leon also possible settlement for this province, but I chose Santiago de Compostela) (owned by Asturia)
* Portugal - Lissabon (strong rebels)
* Andalusia - Sevilla (owned by Al Andalus)
* Cordoba - Cordoba (owned by Al Andalus)
* Granada - Granada (owned by Al Andalus)
* Valencia - Valencia (strong rebels)
* Castile - Toledo (owned by Al Andalus)
* Catalonia - Barcelona (strong rebels)
* Aragon - Zaragosa (strong rebels)

ITALY AREA
Perhaps more cities/provinces?
* Liguria - Genoa (owned by Lotharingia)
* Austria - Venetia (Venice) (owned by Lotharingia)
* Langobardia - Mediolanum (Milan) (owned by Lotharingia)
* Tuscia - Pisa (owned by Lotharingia)
* Rome - Rome (owned by Pope)
* Papal states - Ravenna (owned by Pope)
* Beneventum - Naples (owned by Byzantine empire)
* Sicily - Palermo (strong muslim rebels)

RUSSIA AND STEPPES AREA
* Pripet - Chernigov (village) (rebels)
* Novgorod - Novgorod (town or large town) (owned by Rus)
* Smolensk - Smolensk (village or town) (rebels)
* Kiev - Kiev (town or large town, so it can grow to become important quickly enough) (rebels, maybe owned by Khazars but with low public order and very small garrison)
* The Crimea - Cherson (town) (owned by Khazars or Byzantines)
* Taiga (the northeasternmost province) - Rostov (village) (rebels)
* Volga-Bulgaria (very far to the east) - Bolgar (at volga-kama bifurcation) (town) (very strong rebels with bulgar units)
* Ryazan - Ryazan (south of Rostov, south of part of Volga, close to tip of Don) (village or town) (rebels)
* Khazar - Sarkel (just southeast of Donets/Don bifurcation) (town or large town) (owned by Khazar)
* Azov sea - Timutarkan (north of the little river) (town) (owned by Khazar)
* Volga - Atil (at Volga delta) (town or large town) (owned by Khazar)

NORTH AFRICA AREA
* Morocco - Tanger (town) (strong rebels)
* Tunisia - Tunis (large town) (very strong rebels)
* Fezzan (Sahara) - Ghadamis or Djavan (strong rebels)
* Tripolitania - Tripoli (very strong rebels)
* Cyrenaica - Barka (very strong rebels)
* Libya - Alexandria (large city) (owned by Abbassids)
* Egypt (also covering the Sinai) - Cairo / Fostat or Mephis? (city) (owned by Abbassids)
* Nubia - Assuan (town) - although the map won't reach down to Nubia it'd probably be best to have a nubia province. This is the only recruitment zone for abyssinian guard and other nubian troops. (owned by Abbassids, or strong rebels)

GERMANY AND EASTERN EUROPE AREA
* Alamannia (Swabia, just north/northeast of Upper Burgundy or Switzerland) - Strassburg
* Francia Orientalis/Francia (Franconia, north of Swabia) - Magontia?/Mains
* Thuringia (north of Franconia) - Erfurt
* Vendland (north of Thuringia) - Brema (Bremen) or Hammaburg (Hamburg)
* Saxonia - Jumme / Jomsborg
* Bavaria (just east of Swabia, stretching much further south than modern Bavaria - covering modern Austria etc.) - Regensburg
* Carinthia (maybe not to be included in the final province list) - Salzburg
* Bohemia - Praga
* Moravia (southern border is Danube, Bohemia lies to the southwest of Moravia) - Olmuetz / Olmütz
* Pannonia (south of Moravia, bordering Croatia to the south) (perhaps owned by avar rebels if any were still left there around 843 AD? Pannonia is almost same as modern Hungary) - Buda
* Carpathia - Pest
* Wallachia - Tergovist
* Bulgaria - Plovdiv (just north of the little river)
* Poland - Krakow
* Moldavia - Pereyaslavets
* Croatia - Klis (north of Spalato, Zara possible alternative but then province should probably be Byzantine from start)
* Sorabia (Serbia) - Doclea (somewhere in modern Montenegro)
* Albania - Dyrrhachium
* Macedonia - Thessalonika
* Athens - Athens
* Pelopponesse (Byzantine-held) - Mistra

BRITAIN AREA
Scotland
* Strathclyde - Dumbarton (owned by Scots or Welsh rebels)
* Fortriu - Dunkeld (owned by Scots)
* Dal riada - Dunadd or Iona (Scottish Capital) (Scottish)
* Hebrides/Orkney (includes Sutherland and Caithness) - Kirkwall (Norse Rebel or Norway)
* Lothian - Edinburgh (Saxon Rebel)
Wales
* Gywnedd - Bangor (Welsh)
* Deheubarth - Dinefwr (north of Swansea, Welsh capital)
* Dyfed - St David's - Welsh
* West Wealas / Cerniu / Cornwall (welsh-held, southwest England) - Isca (modern Exeter)
Saxons and rebels
* West seaxe (Wessex) - Winchester (Saxon capital)
* East seaxe (Essex) - London (move port east, Saxon)
* Kent - Canterbury (if it will fit) - Saxon
* Mierce (Mercia) - Chester (Saxon rebel)
* East Anglia - Norwich (Danish)
* Northumberland (Northumbria) - York (Saxon Rebel)

FRANCE AREA
* Aquitania - Mediolanum
* Vasconia (Gascogne, south of Aquitaine) - Burdigula (Bordeaux)
* Britannia (Britanny) - Nantes (or maybe Rennes)
* Provincia / Lower Burgundy (Provence - beginning just east of Rhodanus/Rhône) - Massilia (same as Marseilles) (or perhaps Nicia)
* Tolosa / Septimania (Toulouse, also part of Aquitainia [as rebels] starting provinces) - Tolosa
* Normandy (norman) - Rouen (at Seine) or Bayeux (just east of Cotentin peninsula)
* Neustria - Paris
* Flandria - Utrecht or Gent
* Burgundia - Geneva
* Upper Burgundy / Switzerland - Vesontio
* Friesia (rebels) - Dorestad
* Austrasia (Aachen, west of Rhine) - Aquisgranum
* Francia Media/Lorraine?/Champagne? - Verdunum (Verdun)

ASIA MINOR AREA
* Constantinople - Constantinople (large city)
* Paphlagonia - Sinope
* Trebizond - Trebizond
* Opsikion - Nikaia / Nicaea
* Thrakesion - Pergamum
* Anatolikon - Iconium
* Cappadocia - Ankara / Ancyra / Angora
* Lesser Armenia - Tarsus
* Edessa - Edessa
* Armenia - Tiflis?

MIDDLE EAST AREA
* Antiokeia - Antiokeia
* Tripolis - Tripolis
* Palestine - Jerusalem
* Syria - Damascus
* Arabia - Medina
* Baghdad - Baghdad
* Mosul - Mosul
* Basra - Basra

MEDITERRANEAN ISLANDS
(for Sicily, see the Italy paragraph)
* Baliares - Palma
* Corsica - Bastia (at northern tip)
* Sardinia - Caralis/Cagliari
* Cyprus - Nicosia
* Crete - Candia / Kandia
* Rhodes - Rhodos

FINLAND AND BALTIC AREA
THANKS TO wilpuri and others from the FURY OF THE NORSEMEN mod for providing me with most of the info for Finland and Baltic area provinces listed below:
Finland:
* Haeme (Häme, middle west coast of Finland) - Kokemäki (slightly south of modern Vaasa) (village or town)
* Vakka-Suomi (southwest coast of Finland) - Turku (same place as modern Turku) (town)
* Karjala (means Karelia I presume, north of Lake Ladoga, stretching far up north) - Kaekisalmi (Käkisalmi, at northwestern tip of Lake Ladoga) (village or town)
* Kainuunmaa (north west coast) - Kainuu (perhaps not correct city?, far north) (village)
* Inkerinmaa/Ingria - Laatoknakaupunki (very close to Novgorod but situated at the southern shore of Lake Ladoga) (village or town)
Further south:
* Lithuania - Daugava (further south than modern Lithuania, bigger than modern Lithuania - although the period when Lithuania was really big didn't come until around 1200 AD so it'll not be exaggerated in size)
* Prussia - Truso (just east of Gdansk)
* Livonia - ? (north of Lithuania)
* Saaremaa (the island at opening of Gulf of Riga) - Kuressaare (city lies on side of island facing Gulf of Riga)
* Revala (northern Estonia) - Rafala (same place as Tallinn)
* Courland/Curland (southwest half of Lativa) - Seeburg (southeast modern Lativa area)

SWEDEN AREA
* Ostgothia - Vadstena (town name needed)
* Waestrogothia - Skara (large town)
* Gotland - Visby (village or town)
* Smaland (rebels) - ?
* Samiland (rebels) - Sápmi
* Halland - Loedoese (town)
* Skani (will be owned by Danes from start) - Uppaakra or Lund

PROVINCES FOR THE AREAS LISTED BELOW ARE NOT COMPLETE
================================================
* Svealand or Tiundaland - Birka (this city will be really cool - on a small island in the middle of the lake Mealaren) (town)
* Upland - Upsala (town)

Birka and Upsala should be kept as cities. Only alternative is to either change names of existing provinces or change names and ADD provinces to this list. However it's hard to add more than one or two provinces in the area.

[Jarlabanke]

Would be helpful if we had a map to go by.

[Agraes]

For Strathclyde and Cyil : during the VIth century it was the same kingdom, ruled by Rydderch Hael in Dunbarton (Dun Breatann, fortress of the Britons), refering to the river Clyde (another name is Alcluyd)

Here a map I have made with some of the welsh towns.

[Jalle]

SWEDEN AREA - For Skani we could use Uppåkra which was positioned just south of Lund.

[oj121]

For the Welsh regions, can you please use the proper regional rather than the really very poor English translations of the places. Such as Gwynydd rather than gwyned, and Deheubarth rather than Dyfedd (Which is actually spelt Dyfydd)?????

Gwyned = Gwynedd
Powis = Powys
Dyfedd = Deheubarth
Gwent = Glywysing

There you go, Perfect provincial names for ya

[Keba]

Just to point out, the Croatian capital was Klis (the seat of the King, South-East of Zara and a short ways North of Spalato), Zara was, at that time, I believe, either still Byzantine or independent. Either fits, as the Byzantines had only nominal power there, having lost an entire army to the Croatian lords when they tried to get the area back).

[Wikingus]

* Cartinthia (maybe not to be included in the final province list) - Salzburg

This would be spelled Carinthia.

[skeletor]

Samland/samiland was by the samis called Sápmi from ancient times. The land is today allso called lapland. The problem is that the samis lived alot like the northwest american indians, as nomads moving after raindeer herds, and therefor had no villages. I think we could use the Sápmi name for the village, to represent the pople living there. Their land should be huge, and cover the northern parts of todays Norway, Sweden, and Finnland.

I think that we woldn't offend any samis by calling the area Samiland, and the village Sápmi.

Anyway, great work on the list

-Skel-

[Rodion Romanovich]

Originally Posted by Wikingus

* Cartinthia (maybe not to be included in the final province list) - Salzburg

This would be spelled Carinthia.

Oops, typo... Fixing it now.

Originally Posted by skeletor

Samland/samiland was by the samis called Sápmi from ancient times. The land is today allso called lapland. The problem is that the samis lived alot like the northwest american indians, as nomads moving after raindeer herds, and therefor had no villages. I think we could use the Sápmi name for the village, to represent the pople living there. Their land should be huge, and cover the northern parts of todays Norway, Sweden, and Finnland.

I think that we woldn't offend any samis by calling the area Samiland, and the village Sápmi.

Ok, I've edited it to Samiland now.

[Jarlabanke]

What exact borders will Samiland have, there was/is a town called Höggom quite
a bit far upp the coastline.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Originally Posted by Jarlabanke

What exact borders will Samiland have, there was/is a town called Höggom quite
a bit far upp the coastline.

It'll reach very far south too. Province borders don't matter much, if there are only good cities the province borders can be adapted to them, although if the city you're talking about is very far up, no adjustments would probably be needed. I have a quite detailed map of all modern Europe countries so if you could mention a city near where Höggom was located, that would be helpful.

[Jarlabanke]

Höggom was pretty much where Sundsvall is today.
Also, about Svealand and Uppland. As it is today Uppland is a part of Svealand. Back then Uppland didn't exist as a region but was divided into several smaller provinces, at least about AD 1000 further back, no one's really sure. Further more the area around Uppsala was the center of Svealand so having another part called Svealand is a bit strange.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Originally Posted by Jarlabanke

Höggom was pretty much where Sundsvall is today.
Also, about Svealand and Uppland. As it is today Uppland is a part of Svealand. Back then Uppland didn't exist as a region but was divided into several smaller provinces, at least about AD 1000 further back, no one's really sure. Further more the area around Uppsala was the center of Svealand so having another part called Svealand is a bit strange.

Yes, but the cities matter more than the provinces. Birka and Upsala both need to be included. If possible I'll change Svealand and Upland to something else. I've heard names such as Tiundaland etc., but those weren't in use until later than 1000 AD or something like that, and were also based on the king's recruiting system afaik. Therefore it's perhaps not the best name for describing the region.

[Jarlabanke]

As you said Tiundaland, Attundaland and Fjärdhundraland, are thought to have developed during AD 1000, but Uppland on the other hand is even newer. The fact that they're bound to the recruitment didn't keep the sagas from using them and I don't see how anyone else should be.
However, it's not their use I'm argueing for, but more that you'd call the province with Uppsala Svealand or Svithjod and the one including Birka something else, maybe Södermanland.

[Ranika]

The capitol of Dal Riada was Dunadd. The Irish name of Meath is Midhe, and Tara is Teamhair or Teamhaidh. The Irish faction should not be based in Midhe and Ulaid, they should start in the west. It was a king from Munster that ended up uniting most of Ireland. The region of 'Orkney' as you describe would probably be rebel, as it was the Kingdom of the Hebrides, but it was a puppet of a kingdom in Scandinavia, so you could do it as Norway or as rebel just as well.

[Keba]

Serbia was called Rashka at that time, it was beginning to be called Serbia in the 12th century AD and later. My sources do not mention the capital, although I would recommend using Doclea, located in Montenegro, as Rashka was under Zetan (the name of the country at that time) control.

Like I said earlier, the Croatian capital would be Klis (the traditional seat of the dukes in the 8th and 9th century), immediately north of Spalato. If you used Zara, the province would have to be Byzantine, as Zara was a Byzantine city.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Originally Posted by Jarlabanke

As you said Tiundaland, Attundaland and Fjärdhundraland, are thought to have developed during AD 1000, but Uppland on the other hand is even newer. The fact that they're bound to the recruitment didn't keep the sagas from using them and I don't see how anyone else should be.
However, it's not their use I'm argueing for, but more that you'd call the province with Uppsala Svealand or Svithjod and the one including Birka something else, maybe Södermanland.

Ok, I agree Uppland and Svealand/Svithjod is a little illogical, but I don't have a map with exact border drawings of Tiundaland, Attundaland and Fjärdhundraland. Have you got one?

[Jarlabanke]

http://www.geocities.com/forfader/fo...lanningar.html
This article also states that "Folkländera" was used back then as a name for all of them combined. If that's true then that would probably be the best name for a region including them all. I have somewhere, a book with very good maps of Sweden and information on the areas etc, but I'll probably not get my hands on it in a while, and there's a chance I've lost it completly.

[Rodion Romanovich]

That's a good map. It looks like Uppland will become Tiundaland and Svealand will become Attundaland. If possible we should try to find a good settlement for Fjädrundaland (would Enköping do?) or otherwise I think it would work well with only Tiundaland and Attundaland.

[Jarlabanke]

Enköping seems to be the oldest town in the region even though there's no mention of it in sources until about 1160.

[eadingas]

What age is this mod set in? Because there is no "Poland" until 950's, and Cracow at that time is capital of the country of Vistulans... let me know if you want more details... (not sure how detailed you want the map of that area to be)
Also, I would strongly recommend using Great Moravia as faction instead of Magyars. Moravia existed as strong and expansionist nation since 840 to 950, and Magyars don't appear in Europe until after 900...

[skeletor]

Thnx eadingas..

The startdate of the mod is set to 843bc, and the enddate 1099ad. Our goal is to get it as close to history as we can get, so any info/corection on any subject is highly apriciated.

I guess the province list is dynamic and under construction, so many of the names is improvized so that we know what area on the map it is, and the names is being updated rapidly. Sofar we have focused on provinces/city's in Scandinavia and Britain, but i guess they'r close to completion..

We haven't started working mutch on the Magyars yet, so changing to Great Moravia might be a possibility.

-Skel-

[Rodion Romanovich]

Originally Posted by eadingas

What age is this mod set in? Because there is no "Poland" until 950's, and Cracow at that time is capital of the country of Vistulans... let me know if you want more details... (not sure how detailed you want the map of that area to be)
Also, I would strongly recommend using Great Moravia as faction instead of Magyars. Moravia existed as strong and expansionist nation since 840 to 950, and Magyars don't appear in Europe until after 900...

Yeah, Poland was only added to fill the area. We didn't have any map to go by for that area. Historical maps etc. have been used for almost all other areas, except the area from eastern HRE to western steppes, and down towards the balkans area. The Middle east and Mesopotamia part of the map has also been hard to find sources about.

Can you tell me more about Great Moravia? How big in terms of land were they, and how did they perform in the wars they fought? Also, what type of units would they be represented with? I can't find many sources on Great Moravia (very few about magyars too btw, but there's more about them).

[eadingas]

Great Moravia at the height of its power expanded from southern Poland, through all of Bohemia and Slovakia, all of Pannonia, and parts of eastern Germany (Polabian Serbs).
http://www.cod.edu/people/faculty/st...avia%20Map.htm
This was done by conquest, mostly, starting from 830's. It was destroyed by Magyar invasions over the first half of Xth century. The ideal solution would be to have both these adversaries as factions, but I suppose you don't have any slots left...
When you have a preliminary map ready, let me know, I'll go through it and try to correct the central Europe. Remember that in this age, Slavs live between Elbe and Oder, not Germans.
The wiki article about GM is quite thorough and decent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moravia

[Krusader]

NORWAY AREA
* Hordaland - Bergen (town) (rebels)
* Hafrsfjord (rebels) - Nord-Jaeren / Stafangr (town) (strong rebels)
* Vaestfold - Kaupang (position close to Oslo but further down the fiord) (large town) (owned by Norway)
* Trondelag - Trondheim (town) (rebels)
* Hologaland (modern Lofoten area and mainland next to it) - Narvik (better city needed) (village) (rebels)
* (PERHAPS REMOVE THIS ONE:) Northern Norway - Tromso (village) (rebels)
* Finnmark (rebels) - Kirkenes (situated next to Barents Sea and modern Russian border) (village) (rebels)

Some corrections from my mind:

Provinces:

Hafrsfjord -> Rygjafylke (Was called Rygjafylke in the Viking Age/Early Medieval Age)
-
Hologaland would suit, but Hologaland is "ecclesiastically" (spelling?) seen as all of northern Norway. Your definition of Hologaland/Hålogaland is the modern one.

Wikipedia: In the early Viking Age, before Harald Fairhair, Hålogaland was a petty kingdom extending between Namdalen in Nord-Trøndelag and Lyngen in Troms.

-
No Norwegians lived in Finnmark (at least not in significant numbers, until later in the Middle Ages). If Finnmark is included (Finnmark btw means Lapland) then I would suggest Vardøhus, although that fortress was built in the late middle ages. (During the witch hunts, 3000 Norwegians lived in Finnmark)

Here's a map over Norwegian petty kingdoms during the 9th century:



Settlements:
Bergen -> Bjørgvin. (Bergen was founded in 1070, and called Bjørgvin)
Trondheim -> Nidaros (Was called Nidaros in the early middle ages to the 14th-15th century and evident by the Nidaros Cathedral)

If northern parts of Norway are included, then perhaps Steigen for the Hologaland area.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Originally Posted by eadingas

Great Moravia at the height of its power expanded from southern Poland, through all of Bohemia and Slovakia, all of Pannonia, and parts of eastern Germany (Polabian Serbs).
http://www.cod.edu/people/faculty/st...avia%20Map.htm
This was done by conquest, mostly, starting from 830's. It was destroyed by Magyar invasions over the first half of Xth century. The ideal solution would be to have both these adversaries as factions, but I suppose you don't have any slots left...
When you have a preliminary map ready, let me know, I'll go through it and try to correct the central Europe. Remember that in this age, Slavs live between Elbe and Oder, not Germans.
The wiki article about GM is quite thorough and decent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moravia

Ok, I've decided magyars are better to keep because Great Moravia was being destroyed in the 10th century, whereas the Magyars were rising in power at the time. For factions it's IMO better to have rising than falling empires. However, Great Moravia will be VERY strong rebels. I'll consider making many unique units for the rebels in the area in one way or another, and they'll probably have full or nearly full stacks to defend themselves so their territories won't be conquered too quickly. It's my philosophy that the rebel settlements shouldn't be "settlements for free" like in vanilla R:TW, but instead serious opponents that can sometimes be almost as hard to fight as the playable factions.

[Cronos Impera]

I would like to make some corrections. Wallachia and Moldavia aren't slav provinces. They are in fact roman and have stayed roman in spite of the slav invasion.Therefor the capital names must be romanian, not slav or hungarian.
Moldova - Baia ( center )
Wallachia - Drobeta (south near the Danubian Gourges)

[Stormy]

Maybe this map is good enough to help with your province naming in the middle east.

[Default the Magyar]

What is now Transylvania in norther Romania, is called the Aewold, pronounced ey-aul-wuld.

[Krusader]

Some remarks:

Are you going to use English names for provinces and/or cities? Or the native/local ones?
Was thinking about Al-Andalus for instance. Will you use the English/Spanish names for the Moorish cities or Arabic names?

Provinces in Spain (with Arabic names):
* Andalusia - Ishbiliya (Sevilla)
* Cordoba - Qurtubah (Cordoba)
* Granada - Gharnatah (Granada)
* Valencia - Balinsiyah (Valencia)
* Castile - Tolaitola (Toledo) (owned by Al Andalus)
* Aragon - Sarakusta (Zaragoza)