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Thread: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

  1. #1
    EB Jr. Traiter Member kayapó's Avatar
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    Default Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans!

    This week we have a different kind of preview. In a similar vein to the Tabula Orbis Terra preview and our Features and Gameplay preview, this week we wanted to show you something other than the usual faction preview.

    We will take a closer look at battle formations, their history and how you can expect to face your enemies in Europa Barbarorum. Thanks to The Mark for providing us these formations. Also, Alin, our animation guru, is celebrating his birthday today. So, he has decided to give all the fans of Europa Barbarorum a special present. We are going to show you a few of our new animations today, all worked on by Alin. We greatly thank him for his work. We also need to thank Urnamma, Ranika and Steppe Merc for some of the descriptions. And, of course, thanks Teleklos Archelau our Photoshop guru .

    Happy birthday Alin !

    Without further ado, here is what we have for you today:



    Battle Formations
    Some formations that you might use, or face in a Europa Barbarorum game.

    Roman Manipular Formation
    The Roman habit of making the best of someone else's ideas was well applied on tactical scale also. The Romans, seeing their early phalanxes decimated in difficult terrain by Samnites and other enemies fighting in a more fluid way, adopted the Samnite duplex acies, and expanded it to better suit their needs. The result, what is now one of the most famous Roman formations, proved to be a flexible, war-winning setup that could be adjusted depending on the situation.


    At the onset of the battle the manipular legion would be deployed in three lines, hastati in the first, principes in the second and triarii in the third line. The maniples of the lines were deployed with maniple-sized intervals, with a maniple of the following line immediately behind the gap. However, as these gaps would leave the lines open for flanking from within the line, the velites would be deployed, after the initial skirmish, in the gaps of the first line to create a continuos front. Then the first line proceeds to wear out the enemy. Should they fail, the principes in the second line would advance through the gaps, bringing the fresh, battle-hardened veterans of the legion against their tired foe, and giving the hastati and velites enough cover to retreat and catch their breath. The triarii would be the last reserve, if not protecting the flanks with equites.

    On some situations, when there's a need for a more deeply-ordered formation, the maniples can join their ranks and present a solid battleline.

    The manipular legion's best weapon is fatigue. It has more organized and responsive, and simply larger reserves than many of its adversaries. When the fighters are exhausted, the legion can bring fresh troops in at a moments notice and multiple times. Not much can beat a legion frontally, even phalangites are suspectible to the checkerboard pattern and its alternating weak and strong points, drawing the phalangites into disarray.

    Though the manipular legion is formidable, the small maniples are vulnerable on single combat against more numerous or stronger enemies, what was especially the case in guerrilla warfare in Iberia, and against the Germanic heavies in the North. The reforms of Gaius Marius countered these weaknesses, replacing the 120 men maniple with the stronger 600 men cohort. A cohort was a capable unit by itself, and deployed in a similar manner, but only on larger scale as the maniples it creates the superior Marian legion.

    Carthaginian Ambush Formation:
    With this formation Hanniball surprised the romans in the battle of Trebia.
    The Carthaginians, in fusing many disperate nations together, found ambushes particularly useful on the battlefield. The main line of the phalanx and heavy infantry would sit in the open and challenge their enemies to a confrontation. When they were sufficiently engaged, picked infantry and cavalry would rush from the sides and catch the enemy on both flanks.

    Iberian Line:
    The Iberian military tactic of choice is similar to that of the Hellenistic states. The heavy infantry, preceeded by the light infantry, inflict casualties upon and then engage the enemy center. At this point, the cavalry and reserve infantry hits the flanks, enveloping the enemy and destroying him before his superior armor can have an effect upon the nimble iberians.

    Celtic Militia Formation:
    An example of how the Celtic tribes used light troops in formation.
    This represents the quick formation of Celtic light troops into a logical, but simple type of formation. It is essentially a block of infantry with a skirmisher screen, and cavalry on the flanks; simple enough in use for even the most uneducated of impromptu 'commanders' to employ in a pinch, though hardly capable of standing up to more advanced tactics.

    Hellenic Phalanx
    Here you can see a common phalanx tactical formation.
    The Hellenistic states use the same tactics that won them most of the known world under Alexander. The backbone of their infantry deploys in the phalanx, with heavy cavalry at the sides. When the phalanx engages the enemy, the cavalry will flank and rout him. It is the classic hammer and anvil that proved so successful for Philip and Alexander.

    Offensive Wedge
    Featuring the mighty Sweboz.
    Many barbarian cultures were noted for the use of 'wedge' formations in combat. In the offensive form, they were usually in the shape of an 'arrow' pointed toward the enemy. In this way, the idea was to draw a wedge in the enemy line, and slowly expand the wedge outward. Before the line would be skirmishers or missiles, used to soften the enemy before the wedge advances. A variant would be a defensive wedge, used in a tight space; essentially the same formation but inverted; this was meant to entice the enemy into a percieved 'gap', which would then be struck on the sides by the wider portions of the wedge (this may sound rather simple to deal with, but it actually worked fairly well for quite some time).






    Animations

    This is Alin's birthday gift to you !

    Two-handed swordsman:

    Now some video clips of the action:
    Idle
    Charge
    Slash
    Some cultures (Celts and Dacians particularly) employed swords with either too heavy a blade to be used normally, or employed a two-handed grip to give the swing extra force. These weren't the greatswords of latter periods, but they were employed in two hands, though certain variations, in fact, most, probably could be used in one or two hands. This animation was a necessity for certain Dacians and Celts that used a sword in two hands rather than one. Alin worked closely with our celtic historian Ranika to perfect this one.

    Horse Archer:

    Now some video clips of the action:
    Idle
    Aiming
    Mounted horse archers use a dramatically different style of archery than Westerners, designed specifically for mounted combat. The thumb draw that they used (later assisted by a thumb ring), was faster and was more comfortable for the archer than the Western or "Mediterranean" draw.
    This style of placed the arrow on the right side of the bow, as opposed to the left as in the Western draw.The horse archer would select an arrow from his gorytos, which could be slung at either the left or right side of the rider, or both, and draw the arrow to his shoulder, as attested to numerous figurines and inscriptions from this time. The archer could fire either foward, or turn left to his rear and fire arrows at enemies behind him.

    Xyston/Kontos:

    Now some video clips of the action:
    Idle Xyston
    Xyston Idle to Ready
    Xystom Stab
    The Hellenistic Xyston and the Kontos lances of the steppe were used in much the same way. The cavalry soldier would use his feet to steer the horse, and use both hands on the massive lance. This allowed a much longer lance, which was quite useful against other cavalry and most types of infantry. Often, the bearer of these terrible devices would skewer men and pin them to the ground in a horrific display. This of course would be followed by a melee attack from the mace, axe, or sword of the horseman, which has obvious results for an already shattered line of defenders.

    Overhand Cavalry Spear:

    Now some video clips of the action:
    Overhand Idle
    Overhand Stab
    Idle to Ready
    Many peoples did not use cavalry spears in the orthodox way. While some used them with both hands, just as many used the overhand, to deliver a vicious stab to their opponents. This form of attack was quite useful, in that it gave a man with a short spear a considerable advantage against infantry. His spear was aiming at a downward angle, which often allowed the point to pierce through armor like a hot knife through butter. Many peoples used this sort of attack, from the Medes to the Germanic tribes. It is worthy to note that the Roman cavalry also did this. While the style has the aforementioned advantages, it has the disadvantage of making its user very vulnerable to other cavalry, particularly those armed with lances.


    And some screenshots you might like to see:
    Mounted Bearer:

    Organized cavalry warfare made a necessity of clear commands on the battlefield. Often enough, cavalry would chase an enemy from the battlefield without realizing that another part of the battle was going badly for their own army. Standard bearers are easily visible, helping to prevent such an instance.

    Chariot Seated Driver:

    Celtic chariot drivers had the option of sitting or standing to drive their vehicle. Both had distinct advantages and disadvantages. It should be noted, chariots are a prime target for missiles; killing a single horse stops the whole chariot dead. However, the driver, in concern of his own life, may take a seated position to defend himself. He can also drive, more or less, effectively in this way. The alternative, standing formation made the driver a blatantly open target, but he could control the reins better, allowing him to turn quicker. We've chosen to represent how the charioteer probably drove in battle itself, though he would've likely stood for additional control during a retreat or in a situation where he would need turn quickly.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    We hope you’ve enjoyed this week’s update!

    Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our previews are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.

    Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.

    As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

    Europa Barbarorum ORG forum

    Europa Barbarorum TWC forum

    We give special thanks to Imageshack that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.


    Have a great day!


    Sincerely,

    The Europa Barbarorum team.
    Last edited by kayapó; 09-05-2005 at 15:33.
    Worshiper of therother.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    firstly, amazing job, however im just wondering if there's any chance to see the Sarissa 2h pikemen graphic/anime?

  3. #3
    EB Unit Dictator/Administrator Member Urnamma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    All I can say is, this is a historical accuracy mod.
    'It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.'
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    Don't worry, I don't exist Member King of Atlantis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Well those new animations look pretty good...

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    Crazy Russian Member Zero1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Love the animations
    "This is a-radi-hi-iiic-ulous"-Zeek

  6. #6

    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Indeed they do. I thought the two-handed sword was especially well done.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    I can't see the animations...

    As for the formations, are those a deployment option or a battlefield tactical option?
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

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    Simulation Monkey Member The_Mark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Currently, they're deployment formations, so the AI will be using them against you, mostly relatively competently. The group formations will be revised also, but they will be mostly intended for easily creating small task forces on the fly, rather than redeploying the whole army. Not to say, though, that they couldn't be used in that manner also.


    Happy birthday, alin!

  9. #9
    plenitudo potestatis habeo Member Duncan_Hardy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    The AI will use their faction's historical formations in-game? That's possibly the best news I've heared about EB since the start (and that's saying something). I was getting really tired of the AI forming up in exactly the same line regardless of culture and terrain.

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Quick questions

    1) will the cpu break it's phalanx line prior to engaging in combat?

    2) Trying to fight in the proper roman stye is almost impossible since many of the first and second lines flee never to return or return much to late. Can you adjust for how long the units route for? For instance, the hastati, if they break, should reform together right when they run back to the 2nd line (princeps). I hate watching a group of men plow through my entire standing (and fresh) army and leave the battle field. They sometimes re-group several yards past the bulk of my army, where they are ineffective. I would like to see a broken line reform when crashing against my second line. In order to keep moral high, I have to send in at least two lines at once, because 1 line only does not last long (or reform quick enough)

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    Simulation Monkey Member The_Mark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    The AI will use their faction's historical formations in-game? That's possibly the best news I've heared about EB since the start (and that's saying something). I was getting really tired of the AI forming up in exactly the same line regardless of culture and terrain.
    Well, due to the limitations with code every faction can access every formation in theory, if they only have the right troops for it, though it will be hard, for example, for the Sauromatae to get the required troops to get a manipular form. In practice, the factions supposed to use a formation will mostly use it.


    1) will the cpu break it's phalanx line prior to engaging in combat?
    That is, unfortunately, a persistent (read: hard-coded) problem.

    2) Trying to fight in the proper roman style is almost impossible since many of the first and second lines flee never to return or return much to late.
    That is not a problem. Remember that morale and kill rates have been tweaked extensively, so it will take a while for the first line to rout, actually wearing the enemy out before the principes can move in and finish the job.
    Last edited by The_Mark; 09-05-2005 at 09:04.

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    Terrible Turk Member Little Legioner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Firstly, happy birthday Alin.

    Do you have any plans on:
    1- Overhand hoplite or spearmen animation.
    2- Correct stabbing legionaire animation instead of incorrect slashing action and fix to vanilla jumping samurai animation for swordsmans.
    3- Two handed Phalangite animation.

    and animation mov. links are broken. Could you fix them.


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  13. #13
    Bored Member Tux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Thnas guys.
    1-Almost done
    2-All the jumping animations have been removed but currently there is a temporary skeleton wich is just based on slashes, i say temporary because the a gladius stab skeleton won't be done very soon.
    3-Almost done

    Gah it seems they are, we'll talk with someone to upload them up again asap.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    great work, really beyond my expectations of what would/could be done to improve RTW

  15. #15
    Member Member Birka Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Great work EB. Very nice preview.

  16. #16
    Bored Member Tux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    It might take some time until the main post is updated so i'll post the link to the clips here:
    Horse Archer
    ha aim
    ha idle
    Xyston
    idle xyston
    xyston idle to ready
    stab xystom
    Mounted overhand
    m overhand idle
    m overhand stab
    m overhand idle to ready
    2 handed sword
    2h idle
    2h charge
    2h slash

  17. #17
    Member Member Dago's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Sweet Jesus... you`ve got to see those anims in action, they just rock!! Congrats EB team.

  18. #18
    EB Jr. Traiter Member kayapó's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Quote Originally Posted by alin
    It might take some time until the main post is updated so i'll post the link to the clips here:
    Done! Thanks alin. And happy birthday.
    Worshiper of therother.

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    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Quote Originally Posted by alin
    Thnas guys.
    1-Almost done
    2-All the jumping animations have been removed but currently there is a temporary skeleton wich is just based on slashes, i say temporary because the a gladius stab skeleton won't be done very soon.
    3-Almost done

    Gah it seems they are, we'll talk with someone to upload them up again asap.
    i can imagine teh pikemen taking a lot of time..that chass-pass must be hard..
    and what about the hoplite-phalanx. any changes is density? how do the guys 'in theback' hold their spears?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    you guys ae my heroes

  21. #21
    Abou's nemesis Member Krusader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Quote Originally Posted by jerby
    i can imagine teh pikemen taking a lot of time..that chass-pass must be hard..
    and what about the hoplite-phalanx. any changes is density? how do the guys 'in theback' hold their spears?
    Like the xyston models!
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  22. #22
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusader
    Like the xyston models!
    well. the kinetics for teh xyston would mainly just be that the upper body leans, and rotates at a strike.

    with the pikemen everythign changes: they cant walk like RTW. they have their left-side turned to the enemy, so naturally you crab or , like in badminton, you chesse-pass: like this: pick a wall, that's the enemy line. turn your left side (with teh shield strapped) to the wall. take a left-step towards the wall (toe's in 90 deg. with enemy) now the right; place your right foot further than your left foot (like a cross-over)...that's how they walk in phalanx. i can imagine them walking normal with spears pointing up.

    so there's quite a lot to that model.

  23. #23
    Member Member Dago's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Don`t worry jerby, they will surely make this animation for phalanx units. Oh, and i must say, the horse archer anim is so great, (archer searching for arrows is wonderful ) i also like the cav overhand anim. Will units with 2handed swords, hammers, axes use the falxmen anim?

  24. #24
    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Looks great; should be fun to face enemies that use more varied tactics, though it is a shame a phalanx' suicidal tendencies are hardcoded.
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

  25. #25
    Last user of scythed chariots Member Spendios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    A work of very high quality on the animations ! One more time the EB team proves that she is much more professional than CA.
    Congratulations !


  26. #26
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    So beautiful...

    It brings tears of joy to my eyes...

  27. #27

    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Now this is what I'm talking about! We need more previews like this; maybe next week you could do a music preview or a battle building preview.

  28. #28
    Abou's nemesis Member Krusader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Quote Originally Posted by jerby
    well. the kinetics for teh xyston would mainly just be that the upper body leans, and rotates at a strike.

    with the pikemen everythign changes: they cant walk like RTW. they have their left-side turned to the enemy, so naturally you crab or , like in badminton, you chesse-pass: like this: pick a wall, that's the enemy line. turn your left side (with teh shield strapped) to the wall. take a left-step towards the wall (toe's in 90 deg. with enemy) now the right; place your right foot further than your left foot (like a cross-over)...that's how they walk in phalanx. i can imagine them walking normal with spears pointing up.

    so there's quite a lot to that model.
    Meant as a joke Was thinking of the idle xyston animation

    The pikemen/sarissa animation is being worked on now. We have run some tests on the first animations made and it looked good. Believe me, I think you'll love it as well. Maybe I can get permission to post a pic or two of the finished animation if you all behave and the EB chiefs are in a good mood
    "Debating with someone on the Internet is like mudwrestling with a pig. You get filthy and the pig loves it"
    Shooting down abou's Seleukid ideas since 2007!

  29. #29

    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Quote Originally Posted by alin
    It might take some time until the main post is updated so i'll post the link to the clips here:
    Horse Archer
    ha aim
    ha idle
    Xyston
    idle xyston
    xyston idle to ready
    stab xystom
    Mounted overhand
    m overhand idle
    m overhand stab
    m overhand idle to ready
    2 handed sword
    2h idle
    2h charge
    2h slash
    I still can't see it. What program do I need to make these work? I should just be able to click the link, right?
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
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  30. #30

    Default Re: Countdown to Open Beta - Animations and Battle Formations

    Those Hellenistic Kataphractoi are gorgeous........ Do u guys have any pictures that u got that look from. Particually from Arche Seleukia?

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