The Spartans

[normanng]

My copy of RTW is on its way to me and I cannot wait to try out EB. My question is... are the Spartan hoplites in the mod? I know they are not as legendary as they used to be, but I wonder if the Spartiates are modelled. Can someone post screenshots of them? Thanks a bunch!

Norm

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Not done yet. I am also unable confidently to say that they will be in any near build. They are on the books, and we want them in, but we desperately need help skinning/modelling. Desperately.

[Malrubius]

Desperately.



There's probably somebody out there who'd like to see them in the game, enough to model and/or skin them.

[Jebus]

Couldn't you just - perhaps - ask if you could use one of the zillion Spartan hoplite skins that are out there?


I mean, at least one of them has to be historically correct...

[Kampfduck]

as i most of the time play as the greek, now in eb before in rtr, the spartan unit was always myu favorite, and i used it a lot, only a few of them where often enough to conquer a much bigger armee, so the spartans are my favorite, hope it shows up in the next patch. wait and see.

thx for this mod, its great and even better then rtr in my opinion.

[khelvan]

I am afraid that none of us have the time to go searching through the forum for them - if people can post examples here, that would be great.

[Jebus]

I am afraid that none of us have the time to go searching through the forum for them - if people can post examples here, that would be great.

Doesn't really take much time - I just searched for 'Spartan' in the TWC download section, and Voilà!


Enjoy.


*EDIT* Linking directly to search results obviously doesn't work. Anyway, these seem like good skins... I can't vouch for the historical correctness of them, though.

*EDIT2* And these bear the name of 'historic Spartans', so I guess these might have a good chance of being historically correct. The artist did not give any sources, though.

[Kampfduck]

ive looked to the models,
but im afraid that these are totally outdated for the eb mod, these models are from around 400 bc.

[normanng]

Is the vanilla Spartans in RTW pretty accurate? With the pylos (sp?) helmet and the crimson cloak. But form what I understand they do not wear the red cloaks in combat. Do they wear armor too?

There seems to be a drought of information on the Spartans during the RTW time period.

Norm

[khelvan]

Doesn't really take much time - I just searched for 'Spartan' in the TWC download section, and Voilà!

I think you missed my point. It takes two seconds to enter "Spartan" and run the search. It takes a good deal of time to search through the threads and find attractive candidates.

Thank you for your attempt to help, however.

[Kampfduck]

yes, they didnt wear there red cloaks in battle, so most of the skins are wrong!

In the timeperiod of the mod, called the hellenistic era, the popularity of the hoplon
shield was falling, and the smaller pikemans shield was favorite, so maybe the spartans also
were using this kind of shield and not the hoplon.


If i find more info i will post it here.

[EdwardL]

no, i dont believe the spartans lost touch with the hoplon, even up to the timeframe EB is in. It was a sacred item in spartan society that would not have been tarnished in time. Spartans were also too traditional and too idealogically egocentric, to adapt to such an insulting shield.

"Come home with this shield, or upon it"

[Kampfduck]

Maybe a good argument, yes, for sure is that the hoplon was still used in this timeframe, so maybe they still would carry one.

But how about there armor and helmet type? and would they still use the old style hoplites?

Like said before, its difficult to find information abput sparta in this period on the net, but im still searching ;)

[edyzmedieval]

Why don't you use the Spartan Royal Guards?!(check ER's tutorial on how to add new units)

They are well made, and you basically need to change their name.

[Zenith Darksea]

The appearance of the Spartan in this period is generally disputed. But we can be fairly sure of the following, I think:

1. They did not wear red cloaks into battle. They wore these on marches and used them for sleeping in.
2. They did not wear Corinthian style helmets. The Pylos style helmet is probably the most likely, but without plumes.
3. I personally think that they kept the traditional aspis shield of the old hoplite, as well as the old phalanx fighting-style.

As for their body armour, I couldn't be at all certain, though I'd guess that they wore leather cuirasses. I don't believe as some do that they had ditched armour entirely, as I can't see any reason (or evidence) for this.

[Spitful]

It wouldnt have made any sense to drop body armour, there were simply not enough of them for them ot lose people to wounds that could have been stopped by armour of reasonable price.

Cant you put in a spartan model and skin as a place holder until you get someone of your own onto it? It would add to the players experience and it would take about 2 minutes to do.

[QwertyMIDX]

Why is everyone so obbessed with the Spartans? This is 272 their hour in the sun was LONG gone. Their trouncing at the hands of the Thebans, the loss of Messinia, and the rising level of professionalism in armed forces had left them with little for their 5th century shine.

[jerby]

it's just the fact there's no EB-like game/mod for 500BC....

teh spartans indeed fascinate me, and I hope there's at least 1 spartiatae in the game. Even tough i Know they won't be juggernauts...

as a historical Question: were spartans aroudn this time still heavy-infantry? or have they adopted a bit of iphikrates? do they were linothorax? or a breast-plate?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Why is everyone so obbessed with the Spartans? This is 272 their hour in the sun was LONG gone. Their trouncing at the hands of the Thebans, the loss of Messinia, and the rising level of professionalism in armed forces had left them with little for their 5th century shine.

C'mon - let the KH-lovers dream of getting their one really elite unit - even if it will cost them an arm and a leg with upkeep. At least it's something to build towards

[QwertyMIDX]

I'm fine with you people having them, I even want to use them at some point. I just don't understand why everyone is so fixated on them. These aren't the guys from Thermopylae .

[normanng]

Wasn't the once mighty Sparta turned into a quasi tourist spot after they were conquered by the romans? For upper class romans to come see and meet the people of Sparta and their way of life. The only thing I heard about Spartans in battle during this time was when they were used by the Romans against the barbarians (Visigoths, no?) during like 2nd century AD.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Lots going on in Hellenistic and Roman Sparta. Paul Cartledge and Anthony Spawforth have a wonderful and thick paperback out on it recently. Take a look.

[Marinakis]

Wasn't the once mighty Sparta turned into a quasi tourist spot after they were conquered by the romans? For upper class romans to come see and meet the people of Sparta and their way of life. The only thing I heard about Spartans in battle during this time was when they were used by the Romans against the barbarians (Visigoths, no?) during like 2nd century AD.

why does someone always say that... this happens to every great people who have fallen from power. Exactly how Rome, Egypt and the rest of Greece are tourist traps today.

So i ask again, why does everyone say that...

Sorry, i know, im an idiot

[Zenith Darksea]

Well, it's true actually. You just need to look at, say, Pausanias' Guide to Greece to see that. However, at this time (272 BC), the Spartans could still field Spartiate hoplites, though naturally they weren't nearly as feared as they once were. Even so, in the interests of historical accuracy, you have to have Spartiatai in the mod. Plus, it makes the Koinon quite special.

[Dayve]

Yeah Koinon Hellenon need something... When they start Sparta can't build anything but skirmishers... Not even the good peltasts, the cheap poor ones... It amazed me that Sparta couldn't produce even those cheap nasty taxeis hoplitai, yet when i captured Chalkis they had a third level barracks... Something isn't right methinks.

[Kampfduck]

so maybe its an idea, to make an old style hoplite with a hoplon (spartasymbol on it ofcourse), no red cloak, heavier army and a newer
type of helmet, maybe the one thye use in rtr, the conehead type (forgott
the name ;) )

and:
still as furious as in the older days, but only a very few to build, and very expensive.
it would fit fine in the game., because everybody knows that spartans didnt like changes,
so they would com up with an old style unit.

[QwertyMIDX]

Well, it's true actually. You just need to look at, say, Pausanias' Guide to Greece to see that. However, at this time (272 BC), the Spartans could still field Spartiate hoplites, though naturally they weren't nearly as feared as they once were. Even so, in the interests of historical accuracy, you have to have Spartiatai in the mod. Plus, it makes the Koinon quite special.

Obviously they'll go in eventually, but they are definatly a polish unit, not a pressing concern.

[Dayve]

No they're not... They're Greek.

[O'ETAIPOS]

Yeah Koinon Hellenon need something... When they start Sparta can't build anything but skirmishers... Not even the good peltasts, the cheap poor ones... It amazed me that Sparta couldn't produce even those cheap nasty taxeis hoplitai, yet when i captured Chalkis they had a third level barracks... Something isn't right methinks.

Yeah ... It is unfair ... as KH you start with II level barraks in Atens ... as Epeiros you have one in Ambrakia ... Mak's have only I level ones in theire cities they are unable to train even simplest pikeman if not asault athens imediately after the start. Only those pesant hoplitai

[Elthore]

I believe the spatans adopted the linothorax, however after it had been around in the rest of the hellenes for some time.

also, the extended greek mod has a very nice spartan skin wearing a linothorax...winkwink