HOMM5 demo out

[frogbeastegg]

Surprised that there isn't already a topic.

For those, like me, who were avoiding the game because of Starforce, it's been dropped and another copy protection method is being used. So all is safe.

Never played any of the others ... except a demo of number 3, if I remember rightly. I liked it, but never got around to buying. I'm going to give this one a go; got the demo, now all I need is an end to the urge to write, the last 100 pages of my current book finished, and a bit of time left in the day.

[doc_bean]

Downloaded and tried it today.

I think I'm missing something here, the AI keeps beating me. Is there a way you can 'join' two heroes ?

The battles themselves feel like FF battles to me, not really much tactics (that I've noticed so far), a lot depends on having the better units. I would have like more manoeuvering (sp?).

[Crazed Rabbit]

HOMM5? What's that?


Crazed Rabbit

[doc_bean]

Heroes of Might and Magic 5

EDIT: I downloaded it from my provider, don't know where else you can get it.

[Sjakihata]

can we get a link to the download?

edit: I found a link, rather slow, if you got any links pls provide

http://gameswelt.de/pc/downloads/dem...?item_id=56134

[FesterShinetop]

It's available at Gamershell:

http://www.gamershell.com/download_13278.shtml

[frogbeastegg]

List of links here, on the HOMM5 main page.

I'm interested in what veterans of the series think of it. I've obviously been following the recent HOMM discussions here, and this is why I've elected to try the demo.

[Sjakihata]

List of links here, on the HOMM5 main page.

I'm interested in what veterans of the series think of it. I've obviously been following the recent HOMM discussions here, and this is why I've elected to try the demo.

Thanks for the link Apache and Frog.

I shall be happy to give you my review of the demo. I have played #2, #3 and #4. #3 is the far better one.

[Spendios]

So is the demo good or not ? I have played Heroes 2, 3 and 4 and was a huge fan of the 3 ( I still play it from time to time ) but I was really disappointed with Heroes 4 .

[screwtype]

I spent 3 1/2 hours dl'ing the demo last night, and another half hour installing it (*phew* it's huge!).

I've only played it for about half an hour but my initial two impressions:

(a) Serious graphic overkill. Is full 3D really necessary for a game of this type? I've got a pretty decent rig, and it runs sluggishly even on the lowest available settings. Also, I find the graphical style to be rather overdone.

(b) The combat. I haven't really figured out much about how it works yet, but it's not very intuitive and IMO pretty clumsy. Why couldn't they just have had a system like Age of Wonders, instead of this weird chessboard thing that appears and disappears? Also, it's hard to figure out which unit or units are active and which are not.

All in all then, first impressions are not that positive. But I'm off to have another go at it now. I haven't played any of the previous HOMM games BTW.

[Zenicetus]

I tried the demo this afternoon. I haven't played the previous HOMM games and my reaction was similar to Screwtype's (above) as a newcomer to the series. This is a seriously opaque, non-intuitive demo if you haven't played the earlier versions. There is no tutorial or any real docs beyond keyboard shortcuts. I couldn't get far enough into it, to figure out if I'd like the full game or not.

If they want to hook anyone beyond the existing HOMM fan base, they really need a different demo with a tutorial for newbies. I've played a ton of strategy games, but this one doesn't seem that easy to grok right away.

[screwtype]

Okay, I've had another go at it, and got the hang of it a bit better.

It's the combat system that was throwing me most last time. But I've figured it out a bit better now. Basically, you don't have a choice about which unit to move in combat, it seems to be selected on some sort of initiative system. Bit of a problem when you want to soften up the enemy with your ranged units first. You can if you like though, skip a move for a unit by selecting "Defend", in which case it sort of digs in, apparently. But it appears this is not the sort of game where you can hang back with your melee units and wait for your archers to do the job for you.

Apart from that, it looks to be a rather fun game. You can speed up the interface by tweaking the options, although there's still a bit of sluggishness when you first select a unit. In fact the game reminds me a lot of Age of Wonders, a very similar system in many ways.

One other limitation is it seems you can't have more than one hero per army. Not necessarily a bad thing, but in the first scenario you quickly acquire four heroes when you really only have enough troops for one decent army. This means you have to strip the other heroes of their troops, and when I did that, dammit, an enemy army marched up and killed one of my unprotected heroes, who just happened to be one of the heroes who has to survive the scenario. So I lost Not sure what the solution to this might be.

Other than that, I think it might be a worthwhile game, although I'm not sure you will get your money's worth with only 30 scenarios. But probably you do, there were only about 30 scenarios in Age of Wonders II and that took me a long time to finish.

I still think the game is sporting a case of graphical overkill though...

[screwtype]

Egads, the demo is tough! I've been beaten twice already (on normal), and although I've managed to fight off two demon assaults in my third attempt, it seems pretty clear I'm about to get beaten again.

This is obviously going to be quite a challenge...

BTW One feature that I think sucks is that the combat screen apparently can't be scrolled around or viewed from different angles (although this might just be a limitation of the demo). In other words it's much like Age of Wonders in that regard. But when they've gone to all the trouble of making the game fully 3D, you'd think they could do the same on the battle screen. With the fixed viewpoint, it's quite hard to see your units or what is happening sometimes.

[doc_bean]

right mouse button iirc, hold and drag

[x-dANGEr]

I've played Heroes 1, 3 and 4. The most I liked was 1, of course. I will give it a try soon and come back to you :)

[screwtype]

Hey, this game is pretty danged good!

I think I just found my next purchase

[Sjakihata]

Ok, I have now managed to play some hours with the demo.

First of all, there isnt much new stuff. I had no trouble what so ever navigating the interface, building recruiting etc. (Blame that on my prior experience with the game).

The only thing that can be credited as completely new, imo, is the 3d gfx. Which isnt a good idea - I dont hate it, but I would be finde with the 2d map of hmm3.

I understand why the campaign can seem difficult for new players. The trick is logistics, only go for one army. When your hero is out questing/hunting for treasures be sure to keep a line of other heros (just lvl 1) in a chain. So when your castle is threathned you can quickly supply the defending hero with troops.

the gameplay seems okay, but the demo is crap, i had bugs, objectives that didnt come etc etc, but I liked the game. I never played other hmm in campaign mode, always free play or multi play - and Im looking forward to trying the campaign. And I do hope in free play mode that the pc is smarter than in the demo.

Got any specific questions please ask them, since it's kind of hard thinking it all up.

[screwtype]

First of all, there isnt much new stuff. I had no trouble what so ever navigating the interface, building recruiting etc. (Blame that on my prior experience with the game).

No, it's pretty straightforward to pick up, although there are a few oddities. For example where some units seem to be upgradeable with heroes and others by training. Gets a bit confusing at times.

The only thing that can be credited as completely new, imo, is the 3d gfx. Which isnt a good idea - I dont hate it, but I would be finde with the 2d map of hmm3.

Yeah, it's not really necessary for this type of game. But I've adjusted to it quickly enough. Could do without the attention-seeking "active hero" highlight though.

I understand why the campaign can seem difficult for new players. The trick is logistics, only go for one army. When your hero is out questing/hunting for treasures be sure to keep a line of other heros (just lvl 1) in a chain. So when your castle is threathned you can quickly supply the defending hero with troops.

Hmm, sounds like a cheat to me. I don't think I'll employ that strategy, I prefer to beat a game fair and square.

the gameplay seems okay, but the demo is crap, i had bugs, objectives that didnt come etc etc, but I liked the game. I never played other hmm in campaign mode, always free play or multi play - and Im looking forward to trying the campaign. And I do hope in free play mode that the pc is smarter than in the demo.

I haven't encountered any bugs yet. I think the demo is good! I've been beaten four times in a row on "normal" and the game has played differently every time. It's obviously going to take me quite a while just to beat this one scenario, so I figure the game will be pretty good value.

Don't know what you mean by the pc/AI not being smart enough though. It seems plenty smart enough to me. I'm finding it quite unpredictable (except of course that you know it's going to keep throwing armies at Dunmoor). And the enemies keep changing too. They are randomly generated from game to game, so you never know exactly what you're getting until you go to the combat screeen.

[Sjakihata]

Don't know what you mean by the pc/AI not being smart enough though. It seems plenty smart enough to me. I'm finding it quite unpredictable (except of course that you know it's going to keep throwing armies at Dunmoor). And the enemies keep changing too. They are randomly generated from game to game, so you never know exactly what you're getting until you go to the combat screeen.

Well, I completed the first scenario on my second attempt on normal. I failed the first one because I had no idea that the thing just north of the keep was a prison, so I was beaten by time. Second time it was better. I wandered one hero straight into enemy territory so I could see when he charged his heros at me (so I could get my questing knight back in time). The enemy heros ran past my lvl 1 hero, moving to my keep. My hero in turn could walk right in the inferno lands, taking mills etc, and then I see a keep completely undefended which I captured and held. That sped up the process of winning a lot I guess.

What I mean by AI being stupid is, that I had my hero Godric defending my keep with the entire army and the queen Isabel hide just out side the keep. The enemy just charged the keep paying no attention to the queen. And the AI at times sent 3 heros to attack my keep, one by one, they were all three on the map instead of merging the armies and attacking with one strong.

But since I, at that time, had 1000+ (a horde) of griffins and other good stuff I wouldnt have made a difference.

The trick with the heros is no cheat at all, that is the only way you can play the game on big maps. You just cant support 2 armies and still beat your opponent, so when you need your army back home, you have maybe 4-5 heros in chain from your keep to the questing hero. The hero runs to the first in the chain A, gives A all the units, A goes to B, B to C etc untill they arrive at home. That's smart - not a cheat.

ps. I find the 2nd scenario quite tough (and lame) since you start with no castle. Thats why I hate the campaign game, you get all these objevtives and no troops. When I finally came through the passage a hero of my own race meets me and throws an army in my face, damn did I felt betrayed ;)

[Sjakihata]

Anyone up for a MP battle?

just tried a couple of MP games, they are quite fun. And to all, yes a campaign mode will be available in the full game, not just the tactical mode.

[frogbeastegg]

Thanks. Primarily I was wanting to know if the game is good or not, and how well it holds to the series' tradition.

Going to install the demo now, and give it a quick go. Don't ask what happened to my high hopes of playing it yesterday.

[screwtype]

Well, I completed the first scenario on my second attempt on normal. I failed the first one because I had no idea that the thing just north of the keep was a prison, so I was beaten by time. Second time it was better. I wandered one hero straight into enemy territory so I could see when he charged his heros at me (so I could get my questing knight back in time). The enemy heros ran past my lvl 1 hero, moving to my keep. My hero in turn could walk right in the inferno lands, taking mills etc, and then I see a keep completely undefended which I captured and held. That sped up the process of winning a lot I guess.

A keep, what's that, you mean a city like Dunmoor? Yeah, I guess that would speed up your progress.

I'm on my fifth attempt to win this scenario now :/ I lost two because the AI sent me a big army as soon as I captured Dunmoor, no hope of keeping them out. I lost another because I didn't realize the importance of upgrading to a castle, which increases the troop build rate. And I lost the fourth 'cos I was careless with Godrick.

It's a good idea of yours to put weak heroes out as scouts though. You seem to get a lot of them so I guess it doesn't cost you anything to lose them.

What I mean by AI being stupid is, that I had my hero Godric defending my keep with the entire army and the queen Isabel hide just out side the keep. The enemy just charged the keep paying no attention to the queen. And the AI at times sent 3 heros to attack my keep, one by one, they were all three on the map instead of merging the armies and attacking with one strong.

True, it's stupid that they ignore your essential hero and go straight for the castle, but then again, it's kinda stupid that you can't put more than one hero in a castle anyhow. So I guess the stupidity evens out there :)

But yeah, I think you're right the AI isn't brilliant, this last game I'm playing the AI has done practically nothing at all while I've built up Dunmoor to almost max strength. Of course, it could be building a humungous army somewhere...but if it is, no sign of it yet. In fact it's taken it all this time just to send one army to capture some mills that I captured ages ago.

But since I, at that time, had 1000+ (a horde) of griffins and other good stuff I wouldnt have made a difference.

You like Griffins, huh? The upgrades are good, the battle dive is pretty cool. But how did you get so many - do you just concentrate on the one troop type or something? I thought I was doing pretty well with 150 Squires :)

The trick with the heros is no cheat at all, that is the only way you can play the game on big maps. You just cant support 2 armies and still beat your opponent, so when you need your army back home, you have maybe 4-5 heros in chain from your keep to the questing hero. The hero runs to the first in the chain A, gives A all the units, A goes to B, B to C etc untill they arrive at home. That's smart - not a cheat.

Sorry, I just think that's a cheat :) Because it sounds to me like what you're saying is you are moving an army from one side of the map to the other in one turn by relaying it through heroes, and that clearly isn't how the game is meant to be played. After all, the AI is never going to use that trick on you.

I can see why you might want to do that in MP, because other human players might do it, but I think it's cheating to do it against the AI. It's not something I'd want to do anyhow.

[Sjakihata]

It's not a cheat, because you do not use any thrid party software. I'll settle for an exploit tough.

[Zenicetus]

Well, I'm getting seriously ticked off at Ubisoft. I spent some more time on the demo, finally figured out a few things (haven't played HOMM before), but I decided this wasn't for me. Mainly I had trouble with the chessboard-style tactical combat... it's just not something I enjoy, but no big deal. That's what demos are for.

Then I tried uninstalling the demo. No dice... doesn't uninstall from either the start menu/programs/ubisoft uninstaller, or the control panel add/remove programs. I get a dialog window that says the game has been uninstalled, but it's all still sitting there on my HD. Great... so now I have to manually uninstall, including looking for DLL's, hacking the registry etc. Thanks Ubisoft, nice work.

I guess most people in this thread are enjoying the demo, but has anyone tried actually uninstalling it yet? Maybe it's just my own setup that's causing a problem?

[screwtype]

Well, I'm getting seriously ticked off at Ubisoft. I spent some more time on the demo, finally figured out a few things (haven't played HOMM before), but I decided this wasn't for me. Mainly I had trouble with the chessboard-style tactical combat... it's just not something I enjoy, but no big deal. That's what demos are for.

The advantage of the chessboard system is that you can see exactly how far the enemy units can move. But I agree it doesn't look all that cool. Pity you can't turn it off if you don't want to use it.

There is an option for dynamic (real time I guess) combat, but I haven't tried that yet.

You can BTW rotate the battlefield by right clicking, holding and dragging, which helps a bit.

Then I tried uninstalling the demo. No dice... doesn't uninstall from either the start menu/programs/ubisoft uninstaller, or the control panel add/remove programs. I get a dialog window that says the game has been uninstalled, but it's all still sitting there on my HD. Great... so now I have to manually uninstall, including looking for DLL's, hacking the registry etc. Thanks Ubisoft, nice work.

I guess most people in this thread are enjoying the demo, but has anyone tried actually uninstalling it yet? Maybe it's just my own setup that's causing a problem?

That's bad luck, I hope this is only a problem with your system and not everyone's!

[econ21]

Sorry, I just think that's a cheat :) Because it sounds to me like what you're saying is you are moving an army from one side of the map to the other in one turn by relaying it through heroes, and that clearly isn't how the game is meant to be played. After all, the AI is never going to use that trick on you.

Don't worry - the "hero chain" is how the game is meant to be played. It was been core gameplay in Homm3 - IIRC, they took it out in Homm4 (by giving units movement points). That it is back in Homm5 presumably is part of the "going back to Homm3" philosophy of the game designers. It is not intuitive, but if it helps, think of the hero chain as representing internal lines of communication and supply or something. In the context of the Homm series, it does not really count as an exploit (it's recommended in the Homm3 official strategy guide, for example).

BTW, I read somewhere there is an undocumented W key for "wait", so you can delay your melee units move in order for your ranged units to soften up the enemy. Again, this was standard in earlier Homms.

I guess I'll try to download the demo, but I have read worrying things on the official forum about the strategic AI being braindead - not defending its towns or trying to take yours. That is what killed Homm4 (the strategic AI in Homm3 was excellent).

[screwtype]

Well, whether it's an "official" exploit or not, it's still an exploit in my book

But I confess I'm finding it darned hard to beat this scenario. Mainly because you have to preserve two particular heroes to win, and because you can't put more than one hero into a city (a silly mechanic), one of them has to be outside which means he is more vulnerable.

I think basically what I have to do is either go back to get more reinforcements regularly for my outside hero, or else just make sure he has a humungous army to start with so he can beat anything he comes up against.

As for the AI, the jury is still out on that. I initially thought as Sajikata said that the AI doesn't go for the unprotected hero if it's near Dunmoor, but actually, it does. The AI got my hero half a dozen times in the last game, until I learned my lesson :(

But on the other hand, it doesn't seem very aggressive, although it has recently started sending armies out to recapture stuff from me.

Edit: Actually, I just had an idea on how to preserve my two heroes without a hero chain. What I can do is hire more heroes and use them as scouts in front of my main hero. That way I'll be able to see what's up ahead with risking losing the essential guy

[frogbeastegg]

Finally played it just now. Everything was going well, until it crashed when I tried to leave the town I had captured. 15 minutes down the drain, grrrr.

It reminded me a bit of the original Age of Wonders demo. One hero, a little army, and wandering about a pretty green map finding things and slaying monsters until, after a few game days, the need to find a town to take got pressing and froggy got conquering. I was planning on doing much as I did back then, and wandering the map with my newly expanded and upgraded army, building up my city and finding others. Ah well, I'll give it another go sometime. Not likely to be until Thursday at the soonest; no time for games.

Being new to the series I do wish they had included some basic instructions beyond the hotkeys. Given time I could figure it out, but I don't have that time.

[Sjakihata]

I just tried a custom game. Dang it sucked. The AI was just sitting in its castle doing nothing but recruiting a humongous army. When I arrived I thought I could handle it, but it had like 1k of most units, 120 angels... No attacks, nothing just sitting there. I hope the limitations is something put on by the demo, like you cant recruit more than 1 hero (in custom) not tavern etc.

[screwtype]

Yes, I think I have to agree that the AI is suspect. After exploring virtually the whole map and beating off numerous AI attacks on Dunmoor, I finally made it to the enemy city at the bottom corner of the map. I found a couple of wizards wandering around with virtually no army in the same location and bopped them (okay, not necessarily evidence of bad AI, but it did seem a bit odd). I also bopped a couple of AI armies in the vicinity of the city.

But when it came to the city itself, it was very weakly defended and a pushover to take. Maybe one of those AI armies I bopped had just come from the city, but surely it would make more sense for it to stay put and defend its critical infrastructure from a position of strength?

Okay, so I took the town, and then accidentally lost my big army when I passed through the garrison gate (I ddn't realize that was going to cause it to exit the scenario!).

But then, the very next turn, what happens but the arch demon Agrael turns up with a humungous army at the doorstep of my newly conquered, weakly defended town - then simply rushes past on its way, presumably, to mount another futile attack on Dunmoor at the opposite edge of the map!

Yes, when the enemy ignores a crucial, weakly defended target like that, I think it safe to say the AI has a problem!

All the same, I found this scenario very challenging, perhaps especially because I don't use the "chained heroes" exploit. So all is not lost. I'm still inclined to pick up a copy of the full game. But it obviously detracts somewhat from the appeal of the package to find an AI which is lacking in smarts.