View Full Version : Tactical: Charge or Hold Ground?
Pragmatic
10-07-2002, 03:18
Which is more effective in tactical combat, in SP? Do you let the AI come to you? Or do you go after the AI? Does it matter in different circumstances? (For instance, I've heard of fighting across rivers. I can see moving up to cover the bridges. And then there's moving to secure a good ridge.)
DOES the AI come after you? Or does it passively wait for you to attack?
Bear in mind, I frequently lose even with overwhelming force and advanced units.... I seriously need advice. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Hakonarson
10-07-2002, 03:23
There's a time limit to games, and it is the attacker who has to meet it - press F1 twice to see how long you have got - the most I've ever had was 105 minutes for a 2000+ man/side game - it didn't take that long!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
So if yo're defending you might's well get the best defensive position you can (uphill, flanks anchored on wods, etc) and wait.
If you're attacking you have to win before the time limit expires, so the onus is on you to move.
sometimes the AI will wait a few minutes before deciding you aren't going to do anything, so even if you are attacking waiting a few minutes might help the AI decide to move from an advantageous position.
When you are on the attack the AI will normally hold its ground. In STW it would come for you if it outnumbered you, but that doesn't seem to be the case now.
In the case of bridges, it will certainly not come for you and you can't really outmaneuver it (unless it does the great AI tactic of holding one bridge and forgetting the other(s)). Bring lots of Peasants (best) or other cheap expendable units to soak up the enemy arrows and lure the enemy closer to the edge. Also bring lots of archerunits. Be sure to have good reinforcements or if it a small battle have them waiting in the rear.
If the AI goes for the lure (which I can attest to it doesn't always, nice work devs) bombard his unit(s) with your own missile units. If you are really lucky the enemy will lose more men than you (and Peasants aren't really that big a loss).
Finally the enemy might have used up his archers/crossbows and you can now bring him forth onto the bridge with your spearmen (again expandable) and when they fight on the middle they are prime targets for your archers. They might even get all the way to your side where you can overwhelm them.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
[This message has been edited by Kraxis (edited 10-06-2002).]
Pragmatic
10-07-2002, 03:48
When I HAVE played the battles, I eventually turned off the timer, and unlocked the camera. I got tired of having my units wander all over the field, looking for the enemy.
Given that there's no time limit, would it be best to let the enemy come to me?
As said, the AI is not going to come for you if it is defending... You can't wait it out. You simply have to attack.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Quote When you are on the attack the AI will normally hold its ground. In STW it would come for you if it outnumbered you, but that doesn't seem to be the case now.
As said, the AI is not going to come for you if it is defending... You can't wait it out. You simply have to attack.[/QUOTE]
Kraxi, my experience has been completely different from yours. The AI seems to attack way too often, even in battles where; a) I am the attacker; b) the AI is outnumbered; and c) it's forces are deployed on good ground! And when the AI attacks it does so piecemeal, making the results a forgone conclusion. Keep in mind this is on the Hard level of difficulty where the tactical AI is supposedly at its best. After awhile the watching the AI repeatedly march to its doom can take the thrill out of the tactical battles.
[This message has been edited by Spino (edited 10-07-2002).]
Yagyu Jubei
10-08-2002, 01:55
My experience with this game so far has been that the AI will NOT come to you unless it is the attacker. I have tried to sucker it into coming to me but to no avail...so if you are on the attacking side you simply must attack...
When defending it of course depends on the terrain and weather etc,....If you have mainly cav and he is coming at you with hanguns in the rain....go get em.....
In MP sitting in your spot is often reffered to as CAMPING...which is highly disliked and I am actually quite happy that I haven't seen a thread regarding this topic as of yet.
Best of luck to ya
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Watashiwa Yagyu Jubei desu! Ganbate!
Soapyfrog
10-08-2002, 01:58
Sometimes the AI attacks for no apparent reason...
One battle, the AI (on defence) had a slightly larger force across a river. Expecting a tough (and possibly futile) battle, I organized my troops and hit go. Inexplicably, the AI immediately started piling across the bridge!
I slaughtered him with my biggest casualty ratio EVER, 850 killed to 29 losses. I think in that particular circumstance something was terribly broken!
If defending, camp, unless it's a peasant rebellion, or you're feeling adventurous. If attacking, the ai will usually wait for you to come, although it may change the postion a few times, so you have to move.
Sometimes, the ai will attack when defending. Just recently I attacked the French king in command of an army of less than 300 men, mounted sergs, order foot, templars, some royals. I attacked with 1000 men under a 5 star general, including order foot, italian mercs, longbow mercs, heavy cavalry etc. They marched towards me. I thought, "Yes, come to papa!!", since I had mostly spears and it would benefit my longbows. The French king was a 4 star, legendary leader, chivalrous and mighty warrior. I have never, ever had my army so utterly destroyed before......
[This message has been edited by hrvojej (edited 10-07-2002).]
Hosakawa Tito
10-08-2002, 03:37
When attacking a bridge try this:
1) Move arbalesters/archers up to each side of the bridge and spread them out into 2 man rows.
2) Move up a unit of spearmen/billmen preferably armored but not necessary, put them on hold formation and march them on to the bridge.
3) DON'T let them cross all the way over. Halt them when you notice the enemy send a unit or two to attack you, believe me they will. Hold your ground ON the bridge, NOT on the enemy side. This way you can't be flanked. If the approaching enemy units stop and don't attack, move your unit on the bridge a little closer till they come at you again.
4) When the enemy units attack,
your archers/arbalesters will shoot the hell out of them, when they have spent their ammo move another missile unit into their place. When your spearmen on the bridge start to get whittled down, move another spear unit onto the bridge to relieve them and withdraw the spent unit if you can.
5) Eventually you will decimate the defenders to the point that they start to rout, while not losing too many men yourself. Have your cav and melee units ready to storm across the bridge. The tricky part is reckonizing when you can storm across and not get jammed up on the bridge, where the enemy archers can skewer you. Use your cav to attack the enemy missile units and your swordsmen/axemen to protect them from any reformed or reenforcing enemy spear units. Follow up with your own spears and any missile units that still have ammo. A horsearcher unit at this time would be ideal.
6) Don't try attacking a bridge that is being defended by catapults/trebuchets. They will hammer your units and rout them before you can get across. Attack another bridge that is more lightly defended,if there is one, or bring lots of reenforcements or retreat if you can't afford the high casualties.
7) Try the same tactic with a catapult unit of your own. Placed on high ground as near the bridge as you can get. Use your spear unit on the bridge to lure the defenders in range. Lots of fun, like playing skittles. And very effective too. Just be careful you don't forget to order your catapult to stop firing when you charge over the bridge after the routing enemy. You might drop a boulder on your general.
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