Those F***ING Arverni...

[Tarkus]

Wow, not a good day for my Roman citizens in the world of EB...
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It's about 211BC, and I'm trying to give some support to my Aedui allies as they struggle against the growing Arverni horde. My experienced Roman assassin fails in his attempt to take out an Arverni family member near Bibracte, and is himself killed in the attempt. The Arverni, of course, immediately declare war -- an event I wanted to control myself as I was only now mopping up final Carthaginian resistance in Numidia, pressuring the Lusotannans in Iberia and beginning a major campaign against the KH in the Peloponnese. But with this diplomatic blunder, I've now lost the initiative...

Within the year, Arverni pigs descend on Patavium, Bononia, and Segesta. Each of these northern vanguard cities have been (stupidly) drained of the bulk of their garrisons to provide soldiers for far-flung campaigns elsewhere. I scrape together a relief force from Segestica to save Patavium -- a city with two Scipio family members and a third young and promising brother-in-law now trapped within its walls.

The action is a nightmare...I am unable to dislodge the Alpine phalanx units from their central battle position, and the flanking Arverni spearmen are resolute in their defense. Amazingly, one maniple after another begins to crumble and rout...all three family members die heroically (or needlessly, some say) and the city falls to Gaul. I'm speechless...

As the Scipios are dying, a second large relief force is making its way west from Singidunum, northeast of Illyria, to assist in the defense of the border. This heavily-defended Roman outpost was once threatened by large armies of the Getai, but for the past decade all has been quiet on this front. But only recently, a Greek diplomat has been seen wandering the hills and forests near the city...but nobody gives him much attention.

As I honor my fallen comrades in Patavium, I scan the northern boundaries of my Empire and am shocked to see Singidunum flying the Greek banner...it has gone over to my enemy! More than 500 fine Roman soldiers and allies are lost in the mutiny. And my Greek adversary only gains in strength and confidence...

All in the span of one year!! I guess I was becoming too complacent in my H/M Roman campaign...shoulda known better...but wow, that sucked...!!:wall:

Just had to share my misery with the community...I love the company...

[Redmeth]

This is what makes EB great, adversity rules...(overcoming it mostly though) :yes:

[Reverend Joe]

Ouch.

[Tarkus]

This is what makes EB great, adversity rules...(overcoming it mostly though) :yes:

Agreed, Redmeth...while I was really pissed off with the loss of Patavium, I was impressed with the stratAI's response to my boned-up assassination attempt -- all-out attack!

A postscript to the story: After I lost Patavium, the Arverni laying siege to Bononia and Segesta immediately broke off their attacks and coalesced their armies just north of the border, southeast of Mediolanium. Perhaps the fact that I killed about 85% of their army in the failed defense of the city scared them off...? Although my cities are saved for the moment, there's an ominous green wave off my doorstep...

And I still lost Singidunum!!!

[Ibrahim]

I know the feeling...the Arverni are a pain in the F**** rear; did they have Gaesatae among their ranks?:sweatdrop:

[johnhughthom]

Nice to see even with the "easy" Romani the game can still throw up some challenges. I notice you said "flanking Averni spearmen" are you using any formation mods Tarkus?

[overweightninja]

I expect a bloody and swift revenge :2thumbsup:

[Ymarsakar]

Reminds me of when I was playing Vh/M as Romani, and I declared war on the Averni, Aedui, Sweboz, and Carthaginians. NOt at the same time, but it ended up being that way after awhile.

I invaded Carthage's capital and took it, then cause Rome didn't have Marius Reforms yet, all I could really do was wait in those 3 cities and beat off Carthaginian attacks. The interesting part was that after a few decades ,they began sending Scutari and Iberian cataphracts. Every few years they would send an invasion stack across the sea, land it on the west of Africa, and move towards me. It became pretty static, the problem was that I needed Roman troops to reliably defeat those armies. So several units were moved from Italy to Africa.

At the same time this was happening on a regular basis, I was trying to beat off the Sweboz, the Arverni, and the Aedui stacks. For some reason, they got it in their heads that they should all wage war against me while signing cease fires with each other. It made big difference when the Arverni signed the peace treaty with the Aedui. All of a sudden, they were not combining forces to attack me. I defeat one Aedui and here's another Arverni stack. Joy.

Rome gets a lot of money via sea trade, but this kind of multi front warfare was bankrupting the balance every turn. I was running out of money to retain my troops.

Bridge defenses are the key, so is having a family member with medics standing by to lead your relief armies. All that matters is that you destroy those barbarian stacks, not just defeat them. They'll take a few turns to come up with another one, while you can build up your defenses and economy.

I was at the point where I could not create another stack to take the offensive for several years in that situation. I had to wait for my economy to give me more money so I could maintain another stack, given how many troops I had sent to Africa.

I almost did something similar to what the OP wrote about. I sent an elite stack of Principles and all my Triarii down to Africa, right at the moment the Aedui/Arverni decided to attack in force. Fortunately, I had ignored Illyria and Greece, so the front I had to defend was very narrow. I never did lose a city, but it was close.

[woad&fangs]

:elephant: You shall all bow before the mighty Averni Confederacy:elephant:

Ah, I saw the words "Alpine" and "Phalanx" in the description of your destruction. Good times, good times. At first it felt kind of wierd using phalanx tactics as the Averni, but I got used to it. The Romanaoi on the other hand, did not:skull: :skull: :skull:

You shouldn't have been messing with Averni family. Smelly, traitorous, pig tongued Romans always get what's coming to them.

Anyways, sounds like a fun campaign your having their. I love being blindsided by the AI in EB. Some of the most enjoyable times I've had playing were when I was losing. :2thumbsup:

[NeoSpartan]

FEAR GAUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :whip:

now... tell me more about that battle...

[Dayve]

:elephant: You shall all bow before the mighty Averni Confederacy:elephant:

Ah, I saw the words "Alpine" and "Phalanx" in the description of your destruction. Good times, good times. At first it felt kind of wierd using phalanx tactics as the Averni, but I got used to it. The Romanaoi on the other hand, did not:skull: :skull: :skull:

You shouldn't have been messing with Averni family. Smelly, traitorous, pig tongued Romans always get what's coming to them.

Anyways, sounds like a fun campaign your having their. I love being blindsided by the AI in EB. Some of the most enjoyable times I've had playing were when I was losing. :2thumbsup:

Getting your ass handed to you is wonderful, but only when you have a fighting chance. Not like when you play as the Armenians for 10 years, think you're doing good because you have an army that consists of 4 units of spearmen, 2 archers and 3 family members, then the grey death hit you with a full stack of silver-shield pikemen and heavy cavalry that's so expensive you can't even DREAM of ever having a high enough MIC to be able to recruit them.

[Tarkus]

A bit of a long post here, but I wanted to respond to each of you in a single post...

Ibrahim --

No, the Gaesatae were absent! The Arverni force consisted of three Alpine phalanx units, a unit of Iosatae and 4-5 units of Lugoae and similar spearmen. Not particularly fearsome...but unfortunately I simply didn't have what it took to take them on: one unit of Velites, a couple units of Lugoae, a unit or two of Gaeroas, and a few units of hastati. I was basically powerless against that phalanx...I tried to use two of my three family members as a late shock force in the rear of the phalanx -- flying through the gates and into their backsides at just the right time -- but it didn't work as planned and they instead got torn up in the initial melee, as I feared could happen. It went all downhill from there...

johnhughthom --

Yes, always good to get thrown a curve...but three family members??!! And two lost cities???

And no special formation mods used here...I'm just using "vanilla" EB 1.0. By "flanking spearmen" I don't mean any particularly sophisticated battlefield movements. I was merely describing the enemy's initial setup: central phalanx, with spearmen on both flanks and slingers in the rear. Because their line was longer than mine (I was employing a modification of the traditional three-line formation, much deeper than it was wide), I got "flanked" rather quickly as the spearmen wrapped around my lines. Again, I ain't proud of my conduct in this battle...:furious3:

overweightninja --

Yup...it's gonna get ugly...Mediolanium will burn and wail...

Ymarsakar --

Good info...By the way, I'm also at war with the Ptolemaics :help: and I have a full stack stationed on a bridge just south of Lepki. I face a full-strength phalanx-laden force from the East about once every 12-18 months, and I always prevail...but the Yellow Horde just keeps coming...

woad&fangs --

You're absolutely right...constant and inexorable destruction of the enemy can get a bit boring...I'm looking forward to mounting a bloodthirsty campaign of revenge in Gaul...I just need to be careful with those Sweboz...

NeoSpartan --

Hmmm...not too much more to tell about the mechanics of the battle. Writing this tiny little vignette has me fantasizing about doing a full AAR, but I read those from the like of the experts here (MAA, Chirurgeon) and I feel way out of their league...Anyway...I guess one thing I haven't mentioned is the rather frustrating way in which the battle ended. After my force was reduced to just a few men (literally), they would almost immediately rout every time they closed with the remaining enemy. I couldn't see a way to end the struggle by the sword (I was fighting to the death), so I ended it by using the Escape key...not real satisfying given the blood, sweat and tears of the previous 45 minutes...
How could I have ended it differently?

Dayve --

I hear ya...this experience has given me a renewed anxiety of facing the sarissa-heavy armies to my East...:sweatdrop:


THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS, EVERYBODY!!!

[Ower]

If you want to see a Yellow nightmare, just take a look on my campian in the AI expansion thred. (they have like 4 full stack loded with high ops units in north east Greece):dizzy2:
And yeah the Roman dogs get what they deserve:whip:
Although I must say they are quit a good little protectorate of the mighty Aedui confederaton, for the time being.
with the Gaesatae who needs heavy cav against phalanxs. Just get the naked dudes behind the phalangs and attack. the rout comes in a few minuts - depends on if there is a FM and is alive and hase some moral boosts. I broke this way 2 armies with 7 elite africans wit 2 Gaesatae as i pined them down with my Italic troops.

[Andronikos]

Everybody should submit to the god-king!

[Reno Melitensis]

This is why I like Eb, perfect rule playing. In my campaign as the Romani, the Arverni are my allies, and I went twice to war against the Aedui to save their ass. They have only one character left, a very young king, but I need the Arverni to protect my borders against the hated Aedui.

And about the Alpine Phalanx and the celtic Axeman, the Sweboz invaded Illiyria with armies very much balanced and interesting. Even if I had a Proconsul in the army, with very good traits, I noticed that a good cavalry charge at the good moment in the good place easily broke the back of the Sweboz. At first I was afraid to face them face to face, but as I said earlier they are easily broken.

Cheers.

[Dayve]

I remember in one campaign of mine as Rome, the Sweboz became huge and began pouring into northern-Italy in about 220BC. Anywhere between 1-4 stacks per turn. Ever seen the effect that Sweboz troops have on Camillian legions? I got decimated time after time, but so did they. I would have carried on with the campaign and let them actually defeat me, but i really didn't think it was realistic that any people of the day could lose 4 entire armies every year for 20 years and still have a great economy, the biggest empire, the biggest military, etc.

So i just got bored of fighting them and quit.

[Tarkus]

I remember in one campaign of mine as Rome, the Sweboz became huge and began pouring into northern-Italy in about 220BC. Anywhere between 1-4 stacks per turn. Ever seen the effect that Sweboz troops have on Camillian legions? I got decimated time after time, but so did they. I would have carried on with the campaign and let them actually defeat me, but i really didn't think it was realistic that any people of the day could lose 4 entire armies every year for 20 years and still have a great economy, the biggest empire, the biggest military, etc.

So i just got bored of fighting them and quit.

Would have been wild to witness that carnage...

I don't know...maybe it's my long-standing fascination with the tougness of the German soldier, extending throughout history to the SS Panzer Divisions fighting in Russia during World War II...but the Sweboz scare the BeJesus outta me...I think I'll fight the Ptolemaics first...

[Ymarsakar]

At first I was afraid to face them face to face, but as I said earlier they are easily broken.

I usually used the fragility and low morale of the barbarian armies to my advantage. I would tire them out with infantry, deal casualties to a group of enemies, and then start a chain route via the use of continuous charges of Roman cavalry.

Rome's more armored and disciplined troops tended to hold longer, even though they would still get cut up. With some judicious uses of infantry rout tactics, that is using infantry to rout the enemy via massive reinforcements, the Sweboz weren't all that hard to defeat.

The way I broke up the Yellow Death was fighting them from Anatolia. At the same time, I was sabotaging all their very large market places, which takes sever thousand gold to repair. That and the occassional revolt, allowed me to slow down the Ptolemy's phalanx armies enough to conquer Sidon and reduce the Ptolemy to just Egypt. Of course, that was when I encountered Baktria.

I didn't want to take Egypt by storm or from Carthage, even though I could. I wanted to see if I could beat the waves of phalanx armies, and I could. Although Baktria is another issue entirely, since I gave them about 100k in gold and they had the entire East, including Seleucia and the Hayasdan/Steppe territories.

I archived my Romani campaign then, cause I didn't feel like doing the same thing I did with Egypt. My objective at the end game of the Romani wasn't to conquer Baktria, it was just to play with the different Roman units. And Baktria's endless waves of attacks served that purpose.

Fighting against phalanx armies is no fun if you don't have elephants. The Roman army is great against barbarians though. Which is why I like the Central European Defense script, as it gives me infinite barbarian armies to fight against.

[Ibrahim]

it's been a while, but here I go:
NO GAESATAE?! where's the fun then? now I'm depressed :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame:

[Tarkus]

it's been a while, but here I go:
NO GAESATAE?! where's the fun then? now I'm depressed :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame:

Yeah? Well, I got my taste of them today...

There are the equivalent of about 3 full stacks of Arverni prowling in and around the Po Valley, and I'm getting a bit panicked at the site. My infantry-heavy (i.e., no long-range missile units and only one Illyrian cav unit) relief army was set upon by an army that was about 75% larger and heavy on gaesatae and heavy spearmen. I tried my hardest to hold 'em off, but I was overrun and had to withdraw. I had success with the barbarians in the early stages of the campaign, when I took control of the valley around 265BC, but I enjoyed considerable tactical superiority in the field. Now, in 208BC, I'm really on my heels numerically and the Arverni are smelling blood. I've gotta hold 'em off for a couple years while I marshall larger forces to stop the bleeding. But they just laid siege to Segesta yet again with a huge army...

By God, I hate the Gauls...

[Ibrahim]

now I'm cured..thanks!

good luck licking they're rears-you can do it!