Devs: building valor upgrades?

[Dorkus]

Devs: do you think you could clarify how building valor upgrades are working now, and how they're supposed to work after the patch?

I did some testing last night, and i believe there are two types of units that receive valor upgrades -- those from the spearmen line of buildings, and those from the militia line. The first and second building in each of these lines grants +1 valor to ALL units in the class (so, e.g., militia sergeants get a +2 valor.... as do AUM!!!).

HOWEVER, in both cases, the valor bonuses disappear once the third building is constructed -- both for more advanced units AND for the weaker units. For example, once you make a town militia, the valor bonus for militia sergeants disappears!!!

Obviously, this makes for some weird balance issues, as you are often better off NOT building an upgrade. It wastes money, provides an unvalored 'advanced' unit, and worst of all, takes away the valor bonuses from teh 'less advanced' unit.

It also makes units in the sword line rather obsolete (valor 2 militia sergeants can tear CMM to pieces).

Thanks ahead of time for any responses!!

[Soeren]

Actually those valour upgrades affect all units that has "spear" weapon in their stats.

And why level 3 building takes those upgrades away is that there is old line in building stats (from demo and before). Devs wanted it to be +0,+1,+2 but due old code they get it +1,+2,+0 (they had invalid value for building 1), and ofcorse building 4 is missing. (only 3 buildings in Shogun might be the reason.)

Soeren

[Dorkus]

Hrm... I should test that. Perhaps gothic sergeants are getting a +2 valor bonus with spear workshop since they don't require any spear buildings at all?

Also, would this mean that all units with an 'axe' in their stats get bonuses from town watch/guard???!?

[Grifman]

Since it's getting fixed in the patch, I wouldn't worry about how it is working now. Though clarification as to how it is supposed to work would be helpful.

Grifman

[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 10-07-2002).]

[Dorkus]

Just tested it out -- units who don't ahve the spear building as a prereq but use spears (e.g., SAPs), do NOT get valour upgrades for the spear buildigns.

Similarly, axe units don't get upgrades for the town watch/guard.

So you must have gotten bad information from someone....

[cart6566]

Here's a weird thing. I am currently getting valor 2 feudal seargents in Cyrencia with only a workshop. There is a +1 bonus there, but for some Almohad unit type. Hmmm...

[Kraxis]

You get Valour 2 Feudals from all Workshops...

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

[Piney]

Dorkus

My apologyes...you are right (stupid head of mine)

Units that has spear building as their prereg
get those bonuses (i think) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif . I am really sorry about miss info i posted earlier. (Tested this month ago priefly and after that deleded valour component in building stats so i havent used it lately. )

Soeren

Oh...using backup username...not currently near personal computer.

[This message has been edited by Piney (edited 10-08-2002).]

[econ21]

I am a bit worried about the valour upgrades in the patch. There is the balancing issue Dorkus notes. In STW, they were ok because the improved units were better than the low units with +1 honour. In MTW, the improved units are often only marginally better, so this is not always true.

Also, I am not clear about the logic. If upgraded buildings mean better training, why does this apply more to low tech (often less armoured) troops?

Finally, if it is like Shogun, it may adversely affect the play balance - giving the better building human an extra edge.

Personally, I'd rather not have valour upgrades from any troop producing buildings. I'd rather have the ability to upgrade existing low tech units into higher grade ones (eg feudals become chivalric) etc.

There might be a case for a generic training building type (military academy or something) that could increase the honour of all units regardless of type.

[Kraxis]

Quote Originally posted by Simon Appleton:
Finally, if it is like Shogun, it may adversely affect the play balance - giving the better building human an extra edge.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and those generals with high ranks are bad as well, they also give the human player an edge...

Come on, we already have it. The bonusses are just not correct at the moment, I would rather have the correct bonusses.
If the buildings did not upgrade the units then there is not point in going to Master in most cases (factions).

------------------
BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!