View Full Version : Equal rights for ALL
Ja'chyra
03-12-2008, 08:41
Driving to work this morning I saw a billboard with "Some people are gay, get over it" on it.
Now it seems to me, in todays world of pc and trying to be fair to everyone, that as this is allowed shouldn't others be allowed to put up billboards saying things like "Live by the Bible, being gay will get you sent to Hell", "Be straight, not gay" and "Homosexuality leads to extinction"? Not too catchy I know, but its early and my brain hasn't started working yet.
My point is that these billboards are saying that being gay is ok and homosexuality goes against quite a lot of peoples religions and personal beliefs and as such will cause offense, doesn't this mean that these billboards shouldn't be allowed?
I am not trying to start a debate on the rights and wrongs of gayness but more on promoting one groups of peoples rights over another.
So what do others think?
CountArach
03-12-2008, 08:43
"Gays suck" = Hate speech
"I am gay, get used to it" = Not Hate speech
Big_John
03-12-2008, 09:01
one could argue that it's a distinction between tolerating others' beliefs, and tolerating others' existence.
Don't see any promoting of rights over the rights of others here
Driving to work this morning I saw a billboard with "Some people are gay, get over it" on it.
Now it seems to me, in todays world of pc and trying to be fair to everyone, that as this is allowed shouldn't others be allowed to put up billboards saying things like "Live by the Bible, being gay will get you sent to Hell", "Be straight, not gay" and "Homosexuality leads to extinction"? Not too catchy I know, but its early and my brain hasn't started working yet.
My point is that these billboards are saying that being gay is ok and homosexuality goes against quite a lot of peoples religions and personal beliefs and as such will cause offense, doesn't this mean that these billboards shouldn't be allowed?
I am not trying to start a debate on the rights and wrongs of gayness but more on promoting one groups of peoples rights over another.
So what do others think?
Restaurants should stop serving pig and cow meat, huh?
The billboards that you put up as examples, are protected by the freedom of speech, just like the billboard you drove past.
Ja'chyra
03-12-2008, 10:57
Restaurants should stop serving pig and cow meat, huh?
The billboards that you put up as examples, are protected by the freedom of speech, just like the billboard you drove past.
The point being that exapmles like I used wouldn't be allowed, at least I don't beleieve they would. Not too sure where you're going with the pig and cow reference.
"Gays suck" = Hate speech
"I am gay, get used to it" = Not Hate speech
Lol, you could say that the first one is a statement of fact. None of the examples I stated are hate speech, but are in fact peoples beliefs or opinions, aren't they just as valid.
one could argue that it's a distinction between tolerating others' beliefs, and tolerating others' existence.
True, but you could argue that if everyone is gay it threatens everyones existance?
Don't see any promoting of rights over the rights of others here
The difference is in what billboards would be allowed
Maybe it's just me being oversensitive but I see this everywhere with adverts being banned because 23 people complained and my employer running 2 fast track development programmes with one being specifically for minorities.
The difference is in what billboards would be allowed
Those examples you gave won't give anyone any trouble, some may whine but there is nothing illegal about it.
The point being that exapmles like I used wouldn't be allowed, at least I don't beleieve they would.
They would. To say someones lifestyle is "wrong" isn't exactly the sort of thing you'd get jailed for.
Not too sure where you're going with the pig and cow reference.
Sure it must ring a bell when it comes to belief & religion. Islam and Hinduism in particular. :juggle2:
Mikeus Caesar
03-12-2008, 14:28
Herein lies the problem - you say 'i am here, i'm queer, get used to it', people congratulate you and say go you for speaking out. Then you go and say 'i dislike homosexuals they are against my beliefs' and you get labelled a homophobe and gay-basher, even if you weren't meaning it hatefully but just voicing your dislike for it.
It's the same with Israel - you speak out about how you dislike their current agenda with regards to Palestine, you get labelled an anti-semite nazi lover. Hence the reason no one speaks out about it, they're too afraid.
Herein lies the problem - you say 'i am here, i'm queer, get used to it', people congratulate you and say go you for speaking out. Then you go and say 'i dislike homosexuals they are against my beliefs' and you get labelled a homophobe and gay-basher, even if you weren't meaning it hatefully but just voicing your dislike for it.
It's the same with Israel - you speak out about how you dislike their current agenda with regards to Palestine, you get labelled an anti-semite nazi lover. Hence the reason no one speaks out about it, they're too afraid.
Of course, on touchy (familiar) topics people tend to migrate toward the extremes, such that having a rational and well thought stance on the matter that embraces neither of the two camps is considered impossible. :juggle2:
ICantSpellDawg
03-12-2008, 14:53
The pig and cow thing is actually a good analogy for another reason.
People are free to eat pig and cow meat. People are also free not to eat pig and cow meat. Many religious people extol the the eating of pig or cow meat to be disgusting and immoral. Muslims are free to prohibit the eating of swine flesh for example. Even though eating the flesh of animals is something we are supposed to do as omnivores, they believe it to be immoral for numerous reasons and maintain rules for which animals you can eat and the way in which you must eat them.
I wouldn't be pissed if next to a sign that said "eat pig meat" or "eating pig meat is good, get used to it" there was another sign that says "eating pig meat is a contravention of Gods law and will result in damnation"
If you aren't a muslim, this shouldn't offend you - If you are a Muslim, you shouldn't be eating pig meat or condoning it as acceptable at all.
I maintain that eating pig/cow meat is economical, natural and delicious, but it is a lifestyle choice that goes against many religious teachings.
I agree with the original poster's thought - mostly because I believe homosexual acts are disgusting and immoral and should be publicly condemned when they enter into public discussion.
I see no problem with signs that discuss religious tenets so long as they don't threaten to harm anyone within a given society.
The reason it is there is because people don't think gay people are equal, you do not have the same problem with religious people, hence no need for religious people to put up posters saying - we are Christians get used to it - because they do not get treated differently - well they do but it is only beneficial to them!
Threads like this are just another way to bash gay people without stating - I hate gay people.
InsaneApache
03-12-2008, 19:07
Then again people choose or are brainwashed into religion. I don't recall anybody being brainwashed or choosing homosexuality.
So yeah, get over it.
Then again people choose or are brainwashed into religion. I don't recall anybody being brainwashed or choosing homosexuality.
Or brainwashed into acceptance of it, I know what gets more airtime.
InsaneApache
03-12-2008, 21:34
Or brainwashed into acceptance of it, I know what gets more airtime.
Hey if you don't want a :oops: up your :sweatdrop: , that's your business mate. Then again, if you did, then that would be your business as well.
That's my whole point about this 'sexual hangup thang'.
Ianofsmeg16
03-12-2008, 21:37
I'm all for equal rights for everybody....as long as they dont try and blow me up, then they can go rot in cuba
Speaking of hondenpoep, the best right-wing bumper-sticker I ever saw: "If you want to find Jesus, turn right and go straight."
Driving to work this morning I saw a billboard with "Some people are gay, get over it" on it.
Now it seems to me, in todays world of pc and trying to be fair to everyone, that as this is allowed shouldn't others be allowed to put up billboards saying things like "Live by the Bible, being gay will get you sent to Hell", "Be straight, not gay" and "Homosexuality leads to extinction"? Not too catchy I know, but its early and my brain hasn't started working yet.
?
This does not make any real logical sense, I'm afraid to say. The equivelent to "some people are gay, get over it" would be "some people are christian, get over it" it would not be "live by the the bible, being gay will get you send to hell".
People like to challenge the world which is oh too PC, I understand that. But if you want to make a thread about it make a thread about how stupid positive discrimination is, don't make one that isn't founded on, well you know, logic.
Veho Nex
03-13-2008, 00:04
This is like the things at school where you have the african americans yelling "Black Power!!" and the mexicans yelling "Beaner Pride!" but then the whitey yells "WHITE POWER!!!" Bam suspension
Goofball
03-13-2008, 00:09
This is like the things at school where you have the african americans yelling "Black Power!!" and the mexicans yelling "Beaner Pride!" but then the whitey yells "WHITE POWER!!!" Bam suspension
All three of them should be suspended for pure stupidity. Being proud of your skin color is most asinine concept I have ever heard of.
Would you guys find a sign that said "Most people aren't gay, get over it" offensive or politically correct. :inquisitive:
ajaxfetish
03-13-2008, 01:22
Speaking of hondenpoep, the best right-wing bumper-sticker I ever saw: "If you want to find Jesus, turn right and go straight."
The best bumper sticker--period--I ever saw: "Fat people are harder to kidnap." but that's beside the point.
This does not make any real logical sense, I'm afraid to say. The equivelent to "some people are gay, get over it" would be "some people are christian, get over it" it would not be "live by the the bible, being gay will get you send to hell".
QFT. I'm strongly against the PC crowd. I think it's stifling clear communication. But the examples in the first post were not equivalent. it was a poor comparison.
Would you guys find a sign that said "Most people aren't gay, get over it" offensive or politically correct. :inquisitive:
I would find it hilarious, but that's just because I value irony at least as high as virtue.
Ajax
Hey if you don't want a :oops: up your :sweatdrop: , that's your business mate. Then again, if you did, then that would be your business as well.
That's my whole point about this 'sexual hangup thang'.
No bible in my house, have yet to find an chirstian that finds that intolerant
Ja'chyra
03-13-2008, 09:55
This does not make any real logical sense, I'm afraid to say. The equivelent to "some people are gay, get over it" would be "some people are christian, get over it" it would not be "live by the the bible, being gay will get you send to hell".
People like to challenge the world which is oh too PC, I understand that. But if you want to make a thread about it make a thread about how stupid positive discrimination is, don't make one that isn't founded on, well you know, logic.
I disagree, the billboards I saw stated the Gay action groups stance and a statement of fact as far as they are concerned, can't remember their name, and the first and third examples are similarly statements of fact, one based on peoples religion and the other logic. I agree the second is a bad example.
The whole subject is positive discrimination and if its a good thing. Gay rights group are trying to change peoples attitudes to be more accepting of gays, shouldn't religious or other groups be allowed to post pro hetro statements to even it up? My main problem isn't the fact that they are allowed to post the billboard but that, in this country at least, a churach wouldn't be allowed to post one similar to the one I suggested.
The fact that this billboard was for gay rights is incidental in my opinion, it could easily have said black instead of gay and I would still think its wrong.
JAG
Why don't you keep your sanctimonious statements based solely on your opinion and not facts to yourself. Still, at least you're consistent.
CountArach
03-13-2008, 10:04
Lol, you could say that the first one is a statement of fact. None of the examples I stated are hate speech, but are in fact peoples beliefs or opinions, aren't they just as valid.
What? "Live by the Bible, being gay will get you sent to Hell" isn't hate speech now? What do you see as hate speech?
Also I don't find it at all remotely funny that you think that is a statement of fact. In fact I know many people would find it insulting.
Ja'chyra
03-13-2008, 10:32
What? "Live by the Bible, being gay will get you sent to Hell" isn't hate speech now? What do you see as hate speech?
Also I don't find it at all remotely funny that you think that is a statement of fact. In fact I know many people would find it insulting.
No it's not.
Hate speech would be "All gays should be killed" what I said, and I never once said I believe it by the way, is what is believed in some religions. Would you say "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" is hate speech?
In your opinion would what I used as an example be hate speech if the gay bloke wasn't religious as they would believe they could go to hell anyway?
CountArach
03-13-2008, 10:40
No it's not.
Hate speech would be "All gays should be killed" what I said, and I never once said I believe it by the way, is what is believed in some religions. Would you say "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" is hate speech?
In your opinion would what I used as an example be hate speech if the gay bloke wasn't religious as they would believe they could go to hell anyway?
http://www.answers.com/topic/hate-speech?cat=biz-fin
Bigoted speech attacking or disparaging a social or ethnic group or a member of such a group.
I think that "All gays are going to hell" comes under this. It is disparaging the social group and its members.
Of course "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" is not hate speech... who is it disparaging? They are completely different and that should be very obvious.
I don't think it is a matter of the insulted's religion. It is the way in which the comment is meant. Seeing as the comment is vlagrantly insulting to Homosexuals, then there is a problem regardless of the manner in which it is received.
That is freedom of religion. Hatespeech would be something inciting hate, that's not quite it.
Ja'chyra
03-13-2008, 10:52
http://www.answers.com/topic/hate-speech?cat=biz-fin
I think that "All gays are going to hell" comes under this. It is disparaging the social group and its members.
I never said that.
Of course "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" is not hate speech... who is it disparaging? They are completely different and that should be very obvious.
But this says exactly the same thing about rich people albeit with a more poetic turn of phrase.
Big_John
03-13-2008, 11:36
But this says exactly the same thing about rich people albeit with a more poetic turn of phrase.even if the judgements pronounced in both phrases are equivalent (which is not clear), "rich people" are not a protected class of citizens. maybe you think they should be, but as of now, they are not. that's the difference.
shouldn't religious or other groups be allowed to post pro hetro statements to even it up?
Heterosexuals oppressed? :inquisitive:
The fact that this billboard was for gay rights is incidental in my opinion, it could easily have said black instead of gay and I would still think its wrong.
What? "Some people are black, get over it"? or "Live by the bible, being black will get you sent to hell"?, ? :inquisitive:
What? "Live by the Bible, being gay will get you sent to Hell" isn't hate speech now? What do you see as hate speech?
Well the christians don't send anyone to hell, God does.
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