Favourite faction

[Emperor Mithdrates]

Why dont you dudes vote on what you think is your favourite faction. It will be good to see who comes up on top for the best faction. Vote on things like positioning on campaign map, asthetics on map, units....ect.

[Spartan198]

Vanilla-wise,the Seleucids. They have the most varied troop roster,though their lack of adequate light cavalry (ie,Light Lancers,not Militia Cavalry) can be somewhat of a hassle. Greek Cavalry is good,but just feels too heavy to be light,and too light to be heavy.

Edit: Not to mention that the Seleucids' precarious starting situation makes it oh-so-sweeter when you finally have everything east of the Aegean Sea subjugated to your rule.

[Quintus.JC]

The exact same poll was published not long ago. My favourite factions are the Romans, Seleucid, Carthage and Germania. I voted for the Julii never the less.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

The exact same poll was published not long ago. My favourite factions are the Romans, Seleucid, Carthage and Germania. I voted for the Julii never the less.I musnt have joined when it was posted. sorry.
still it only takes a second tovot. why not

[Spartan198]

The exact same poll was published not long ago.
Oh yeah,I remember now! I voted the Seleucids on that one,too.

[Quintus.JC]

wish i could have multiple vote. Overlord, did you vote for Pontus?

[Emperor Mithdrates]

wish i could have multiple vote. Overlord, did you vote for Pontus?

Yeah, I love Pontus. They have the eastern infantry, Macedon pikemen, excelent archers, heavy cataphracts and my favourite...chariots.
Also theyre possitioning means they have the pitiful Armenians to their right and hundreds of rebel states to their left making empire building easy for a shrt time. I own the whole agean and adriatic.
:2thumbsup:

[Spartan198]

wish i could have multiple vote. Overlord, did you vote for Pontus?
Well,if I voted the Seleucids and you voted the Julii,then he must've because there's only three people posting here as of yet.

[Quintus.JC]

Well,if I voted the Seleucids and you voted the Julii,then he must've because there's only three people posting here as of yet.


Good logic. Something I really lack.

[Brave]

Although it is unfortunate that I am unable to join the dance floor, I can have a jolly good time in the corner. The Romans have that special something which makes them appealing, the Greeks and Macedonians have absolute wealth, Seleucids have an excellent roster, Egyptians have high populations and wealth plus good units, the Thracians and Dacians are a challenge, the Germans have excellent units but poor population growth etc etc

They are all good and it is hard to have a favourite but wierdly I would have to say Carthage are my favourite although I rarely complete fifty turns as them.

[Quintus.JC]

Re: Brave
Yes, its true that each faction is unique and all have something that's good about themselves (apart from Thrace, they are rubbish). I really like Carthage too, they have excellent troop roster. Only thing that’s lacking is nice health buildings, they don’t a lot of GPs either for the overpopulated Carthage.

[Spartan198]

Welcome to the forums,Brave.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

I know I tend to go on about it but the Kingdom of the Parthians, I just have a tendency to be deadly with cavalry dominated armies. Also you can role-play a jealous Eastern King, back-stab people (though not too often kind of takes the fun out of it, and it was only the Seleucids anyway!!!) not something I had tried before.

More importantly, for me anyway, The Kingdom of the Parthians was the only major power that, as a coherent Empire anyway, managed to stand up to late Republican, Early Principate Rome, which held an added attraction for me.

Anyway, enough for now, I'm sure all you guys are sick of me extolling their virtues :laugh4:

[guineawolf]

my favourite factions is greek cities,seleucids,carthage,egypt,macedon,germania and scipii.But if i must pick 1,i will pick Scipii,for military,they got level 3 equipment upgrade,at sea,they got decere the strongest ships,economically,they got saturn to cover the corupption and entertainment to maintain most of public order,then the last,my favourite Wolve banner!:2thumbsup:

they are very balance for me

[Hannibalbarc]

All you have to do is look at my name and you will know who I voted for:beam:

[Spartan198]

All you have to do is look at my name and you will know who I voted for:beam:
Those Carthaginians do have two of the top best phalanxes in the game,and their Sacred Band cavalry is arguably on par with Companions.
All in all,Carthage is one of the top factions and definitely a hassle to deal with.

[Quirinus]

Anyway, enough for now, I'm sure all you guys are sick of me extolling their virtues :laugh4:
Heh, not at all. I love the Parthians too-- good basic horse archers that remain useful well into the game, and better horse archers and cavalry as the game goes on..... well, they have pretty much no decent infantry, but they don't need that, especially with elephants later in the game. I do dislike their lack of temples though-- only Zoroastra. Even Pontus has three!


The Seleucids are okay --nice troop roster--, and very challenging at the beginning, but in all honesty, I hate their starting position. Also, their temples are very bleh. The Temple of Hephasteus is okay, but they lack a good temple for cash-producing cities. The health temple, when combined with the Hanging Gardens, leads to big squalor problems especially in your core cities pretty soon. The Dionysius temple is the worst-- it leads to drinking-related traits and ancillaries.

My favourite is the Greek Cities, definitely. Their lack of good cavalry doesn't bother me overmuch, besides, I really like militia cavalry. Crappy missile cav, but excellent router-slayer and screener. Armoured hoplites rock my world, and Spartans are...... Spartans. And their temples are, IMO, the best set of all the factions. A experience temple plus a trade temple and a law temple for troublesome settlements. And the Greeks have a very challenging starting position.

So my vote goes to the Greeks.

[Shieldmaiden]

No Britannia in your Poll? :thumbsdown:

[Quintus.JC]

The Julii temple really sucks compared to the Brutii and Scipii. There isn’t much difference between the 4 Roman Factions. But I simply love Julii for their colour. Not that red is my favourite but it just looks fitting. Have anyone ever seen Blue/Green Legionaries (excluding Praetorians who can come in blue sometimes)?

[placenik]

No Britannia in your Poll? :thumbsdown:
No Schytia also :thumbsdown:

[Rhand]

I would've voted Britannia as I've almost conquered the whole map with it, which was quite fun until the end.

Further I've only played with the Julii and the Scipii, but both weren't for that long, although I'm replaying now with the Julii and having quite a lot of fun. Hence I voted for the Julii.

[Brave]

There are more factions missing than nationalities in London.

[Spartan198]

Even I can't remember all the factions in RTW at any given moment.
Besides,it's the guy's first poll. Let's cut him a little slack on this one.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

No Britannia in your Poll? :thumbsdown:

:oops:
I thought you might turn up eventually and its obivous who you like.
the truth is, beause I dont like playing the outsider, And britons as far away from Rome as....well.... almost possible, I hardly ever play as them.

Sorry.

dont hurt me :surrender2:

[Quintus.JC]

Where is Thrace! they are my favourite. (only joking):laugh4:

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I can add the factions in you forgot if you want Overlord of Achaea. Simply drop me a PM (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/private.php?do=newpm&u=22106) and I'll sort it out for you.

~:)

[guineawolf]

Heh, not at all. I love the Parthians too-- good basic horse archers that remain useful well into the game, and better horse archers and cavalry as the game goes on..... well, they have pretty much no decent infantry, but they don't need that, especially with elephants later in the game. I do dislike their lack of temples though-- only Zoroastra. Even Pontus has three!


The Seleucids are okay --nice troop roster--, and very challenging at the beginning, but in all honesty, I hate their starting position. Also, their temples are very bleh. The Temple of Hephasteus is okay, but they lack a good temple for cash-producing cities. The health temple, when combined with the Hanging Gardens, leads to big squalor problems especially in your core cities pretty soon. The Dionysius temple is the worst-- it leads to drinking-related traits and ancillaries.

My favourite is the Greek Cities, definitely. Their lack of good cavalry doesn't bother me overmuch, besides, I really like militia cavalry. Crappy missile cav, but excellent router-slayer and screener. Armoured hoplites rock my world, and Spartans are...... Spartans. And their temples are, IMO, the best set of all the factions. A experience temple plus a trade temple and a law temple for troublesome settlements. And the Greeks have a very challenging starting position.

So my vote goes to the Greeks.
i agree with you about that greek cities have the best set of temple of all the factions.Aphrodites quickly increase your populations in the early game,Hermes for trades,then Athena for law to cover corruptions,that make it have most incomes compare to brutii mercury only.But Scipii entertainment cover the public order better than greek cities(it save money),that is why i choose Scipii but not Greek cities..:2thumbsup: :yes:

I would say that carthage temples are the second best set temple of all factions,all of them provide incomes,tanits increase population growth and provide farming income at the same time,milqart for trade,after 20% of distance from capitol(Secret Police Network gives 20% of law),that baal can cover its corruptions.

[Shieldmaiden]

:oops:
I thought you might turn up eventually and its obivous who you like.
the truth is, beause I dont like playing the outsider, And britons as far away from Rome as....well.... almost possible, I hardly ever play as them.

Sorry.

dont hurt me :surrender2:

'tis ok, nobody remembers 'em all :bow:

Omanes to the rescue!*

*like superman but hopefully without the underpants on the outside

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I do actually have a pair of undies with a big superman "S" on them, but no, I don't wear them on the outside of my trousers.

My favourite faction is Carthage, BTW. In game, I prefer them for a combination of high quality infantry and cavalry making them exceedingly versatile.

My most important reason for liking them is related to another game, or at least the trial version. In the days of Windows 98, whenever I got bored I played with the CD sampler and installed some of the trial software on it.

Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome, was one of these games I came across. It contained one campaign consisting of three scenarios. In every one the only playable faction was Carthage fighting against Rome.

In the end I became so immersed in the trial version that Carthage kind of became something I'm automatically attracted to whenever it appears. It took me seven and a bit long years to actually buy the full game though (only getting it just before Christmas last year).

~:)

[Spartan198]

I do actually have a pair of undies with a big superman "S" on them, but no, I don't wear them on the outside of my trousers.

My favourite faction is Carthage, BTW. In game, I prefer them for a combination of high quality infantry and cavalry making them exceedingly versatile.

My most important reason for liking them is related to another game, or at least the trial version. In the days of Windows 98, whenever I got bored I played with the CD sampler and installed some of the trial software on it.

Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome, was one of these games I came across. It contained one campaign consisting of three scenarios. In every one the only playable faction was Carthage fighting against Rome.

In the end I became so immersed in the trial version that Carthage kind of became something I'm automatically attracted to whenever it appears. It took me seven and a bit long years to actually buy the full game though (only getting it just before Christmas last year).

~:)
So would you suggest AoE as an alternative to Total War? I have been looking for something else with the RTS / epic campaigning theme of RTW. I have been watching http://www.wildfiregames.com/0ad/ with some interest,but there's no telling when it'll come out.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

So would you suggest AoE as an alternative to Total War? I have been looking for something else with the RTS / epic campaigning theme of RTW. I have been watching http://www.wildfiregames.com/0ad/ with some interest,but there's no telling when it'll come out.Both sets of games (Total War and Age of) are similar in the concept, but go about it very differently. R:TW is both turn based (economy) and real time based (battle), while AoE combines both the economy and the military side of things on one real time map. Combat is a lot simpler in the Age of series - there is no morale, stamina or limited ammo.

If you fancy giving the Age of series a try, the trial versions of all "Age of" games (with the exception of the original Age of Empires) can be found here (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/results.aspx?pocId=1&freetext=age%20of%20empires%20trial&DisplayLang=en). I remembered downloading a load of them when I had dial-up - it took me ages - especially without the assistance of a download manager.

~:)

[Shieldmaiden]

So would you suggest AoE as an alternative to Total War? I have been looking for something else with the RTS / epic campaigning theme of RTW. I have been watching http://www.wildfiregames.com/0ad/ with some interest,but there's no telling when it'll come out.

Rise of Nations is one, think AoE with elements of Civilization. It does have a CTW campaign (risk style worldmap, fighting in RTS). The Thrones & Patriots expansion includes extra factions, governments, and much more detailed historical CTW campaigns like Alexander, Napoleon, etc :yes:

Trial of RoN:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/riseofnations/downloads.aspx

Trial of T&P:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/thronesandpatriots/downloads.aspx

Bear in mind you can buy the Gold Edition for about £5 in the UK, so hopefully it'll be dirt cheap everywhere.

Omanes beat me to it but I'll recommend AoE too :beam:

[Hound of Ulster]

Parthia. Put up more polls so I can vote for them as many times as want.

[IceWolf]

Where's Armenia? HAs, Cataphracts, and Legions too. What's not to like?

IceWolf

[Spartan198]

Where's Armenia? HAs, Cataphracts, and Legions too. What's not to like?

IceWolf
I've played a couple of campaigns as the Armenians,and they are fun. A good combination of western infantry and eastern cavalry.

[Spartan198]

If you fancy giving the Age of series a try, the trial versions of all "Age of" games (with the exception of the original Age of Empires) can be found here (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/results.aspx?pocId=1&freetext=age%20of%20empires%20trial&DisplayLang=en). I remembered downloading a load of them when I had dial-up - it took me ages - especially without the assistance of a download manager.

~:)
Thanks.

[placenik]

No Schytia also :thumbsdown:
Voted for Parthia, closest one available

[Spartan198]

Rise of Nations is one, think AoE with elements of Civilization. It does have a CTW campaign (risk style worldmap, fighting in RTS). The Thrones & Patriots expansion includes extra factions, governments, and much more detailed historical CTW campaigns like Alexander, Napoleon, etc :yes:

Trial of RoN:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/riseofnations/downloads.aspx

Trial of T&P:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/thronesandpatriots/downloads.aspx

Bear in mind you can buy the Gold Edition for about £5 in the UK, so hopefully it'll be dirt cheap everywhere.

Omanes beat me to it but I'll recommend AoE too :beam:
Thanks for introducing me to Rise of Nations. That's definitely a unique one.

[Shieldmaiden]

Thanks for introducing me to Rise of Nations. That's definitely a unique one.

Your welcome.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

The poll has been updated. Thankyou for your cooperation :bow:

[Abokasee]

Armenia

They are well balanenced, they have cheap early game infantry, overall good heavy spearmen who can go into a phalanx, cataphracts, cataphract archers, and normal horse archers, what more do you need, there only disadvantage is starting postion but as soon you get a stable number towns you can rush just about any other faction, (recomend smacking out parthia, then sycthia, then join the seleucid pinyata club, then destroy anyone who threatens you in the slightist)

[Permenion]

Spain, tough playing Surrectum it are the Iberians. They're not easy, that's the challenging thing. Certainly because you get invasion from Carthaginian armies and Romans every turn(more than 3 full armies). And they have nice infantry , almost all throwing spears before attacking. :yes:

[Flying Pig]

Carthage. They're the only ones that combine rock hard infantry, élite cavalry and a great starting position. It was between them and the macedonians, but Carthage win due to their elephants.

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

I chose Julii, mainly because i like the fact that they are positioned in a convienient position south of the Gauls, which i always find easy to deal with, aswell as having access to much diplomacy and always popping out generals aat the right timess

[kingnathers7]

Julii

Being south of gaul makes it far better gaul have rubbish soldiers and no one else really threatens you until britannia(chariots are good).

[DerekBaker]

I voted Carthage. Mainly because it's now summer 27BC and I'm sitting on 95 provinces (VH/VH) - this after failing four times with them

[Praetor Rick]

I voted Carthage. Mainly because it's now summer 27BC and I'm sitting on 95 provinces (VH/VH) - this after failing four times with them

If I could vote in this poll, I think I'd vote Carthage, although the faction does seem a bit lacking to me. I just like the concept, the last mighty outpost of the ancient Phoenician civilization standing against the rising tide of Roman dominance.

Play wise, I really like pre-Marian Romans, they're nicely balanced. Not so good at taking a charge since by the time you can build Triarii, you're right on the eve of the reforms, but the infantry is otherwise top notch, while the cavalry and archers are good enough to back up that amazing infantry. Lack of solid infantry is the one thing that really turned me off on Carthage - Libyan Spearmen are awfully sad, and Poeni Infantry come too late. Still, the faction itself keeps me coming back even though I get insanely frustrated trying to capture cities. Even Parthia has an easier time capturing cities, since at least horse archers are only crippled instead of utterly destroyed by the horrible pathfinding around the city square.

[Motep]

The greeks, of course. they have a good location for general expansion, they can produce alot of cash, and they have the best phalanx. You can have one helluva freestanding army if you boost up your trade and resource exploitation, and they can also expand very rapidly. Not to mention their homeland has access to a very good merc unit, the cretan archers, who are vastly surperior to the standard issue greek archer.

...I also like the fact that they are greek, adn I just like the greek nation and its history, it is very cool, and it fits within my nerdiness to make their already great history even greater by having them conquer the european world.

2nd place - Carthage
3rd place - Seleucid
4th place - Brutii
5th place - Egypt

[RLucid]

Being south of gaul makes it far better gaul have rubbish soldiers and no one else really threatens you until britannia(chariots are good).
2 Horses + Driver + Archer, all put out of action by 1 well aimed cheap javelin.

Skirmishers are what put chariots out of action, at beginning of Iron age, and Velites seem to know that and aren't scared of them, unlike the heavier Infantry units who make it easier to be mown down by fighting in close order. With Jullii had little trouble on Hard (when Brits have +4 attack bonus), smashing the Briton armies eliminating them from continent and accepting humiliating cease-fire terms and restoration of trade-rights, so long as as the Hastati were protected in this way (though decent General nearby helps).

Keeping Chariot Archers at a distance, with Velites screen, was a rare occassion for using them in open order, so the arrows mostly were wasted. In that battle, 2 town watch reinforcements hidden in a patch of trees, actually managed to rout a chariot unit, after dealing with some Brit peasants.

Design your armies, and plan some ambushes, the Gauls with well used skirmisher warbands to bolster spear warbands and noble + light cavalry, nevermind Forest archers and stronger infantry can discomfort an army over reliant on Hastati, or eccentrically obsolete like chariots.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Javelin based skirmishers are the special forces (elephant and chariot) killers. I have read somewhere that a "+8" bonus was granted in such combat, probably explaining the destruction.

The only problem with them is their vulnerabliity in other scenarios such as when facing an army dominated by infantry and cavalry. Although they do have more power per shot than archers, their firepower overall is a lot more limited.

To negate this I use skirmishers not as skirmishers, but more as flanking troops. I keep them out of the way of the front line of infantry, and then move them round the enemy rear to pepper them with javelins. Although a little bit of friendly fire can occur, 95% of the projectiles manage to latch onto the foes.

This is devastating to lightly armed and low morale units, often causing a chain route. If followed by a cavalry charge, it can be even more devastating to the attackers.

The only problem is keeping the enemy cavalry away from them. Although infantry is usually engaged by then, cavalry are typically still manoeuvring into place. Cavalry of your own can often stop them, but if they don't then the skirmishers are stuck and flanks are vulnerable.

~:)

[Wasp]

Greece, Germania and the Julii I think.

[RLucid]

Javelin based skirmishers are the special forces (elephant and chariot) killers. I have read somewhere that a "+8" bonus was granted in such combat, probably explaining the destruction.

The only problem with them is their vulnerabliity in other scenarios such as when facing an army dominated by infantry and cavalry. Although they do have more power per shot than archers, their firepower overall is a lot more limited.

To negate this I use skirmishers not as skirmishers, but more as flanking troops. I keep them out of the way of the front line of infantry, and then move them round the enemy rear to pepper them with javelins.
Try creating gaps they can run through in your front line. Then when the barbs charge, counter-attack with the Hastati. The skirmishers should retreat back through the lines, and then you can move them out to flanks, if the shock on contact doesn't crack the enemy rapidly. So long as the Hastati are 4 men deep, and against expected HC charge, 5 or 6 deep seems to work better to me, then they tend to naturally spread out a bit to plug gaps once engaged.

The main problem with the broken line I found has been getting charged by heavy cavalry, some casualties are inevitable. But being ready for it, and having some charge stoppers (like cheap Town Watch) then lets Triarii, for Barb. Merc Spearmen counter-charge with a bonus against stationary cavalry. Once they're halted, actually even Hastati seem to fair OK, it's the initial impact which seems to be the big danger of high casualties.

But if the Velites @ 270 dn do get caught by heavy cavalry, that unit tends to get trapped between front line Hastati and 2nd/3rd line counter attackers, plus they're easily replaceable, often with a power-up shrine bonus in captured settlements.

Rather than as special forces, I regard them as "force-multipliers". Basically though they may only inflict 10% or so casualties on enemy front-line infantry, that is about 1/3 of way to the all important rout, saving the Hastati many casualties. Nevermind the situations where they keep enemy missile units out of range of the closely formed up Heavy Infantry.

It seems to me, on of the problems in RTW battles, is that Light Infantry doesn't seem to have a 3rd gear, above quick march; also there frequently seems to be anomalous fatigue-ing of lightly armoured units when climbing mountain sides. Number of times, I've found Principes "warmed up", when light units are winded is amazing.

[Quirinus]

2 Horses + Driver + Archer, all put out of action by 1 well aimed cheap javelin.

Skirmishers are what put chariots out of action, at beginning of Iron age, and Velites seem to know that and aren't scared of them, unlike the heavier Infantry units who make it easier to be mown down by fighting in close order. With Jullii had little trouble on Hard (when Brits have +4 attack bonus), smashing the Briton armies eliminating them from continent and accepting humiliating cease-fire terms and restoration of trade-rights, so long as as the Hastati were protected in this way (though decent General nearby helps).

Keeping Chariot Archers at a distance, with Velites screen, was a rare occassion for using them in open order, so the arrows mostly were wasted. In that battle, 2 town watch reinforcements hidden in a patch of trees, actually managed to rout a chariot unit, after dealing with some Brit peasants.

Design your armies, and plan some ambushes, the Gauls with well used skirmisher warbands to bolster spear warbands and noble + light cavalry, nevermind Forest archers and stronger infantry can discomfort an army over reliant on Hastati, or eccentrically obsolete like chariots.
It's odd-- I did a series of tests with vanilla RTW on chariots and skirmishers. I had two units of Egyptian chariots and five units of heavy peltasts, and I held the high ground. Since the advice is to swarm the chariots to restrict their mobility, I asked all of them to charge the chariots. The result was a mass rout, with chariot losses relatively light (2-3 chariots down). The result was the same (albiet with more Egyptian casualties) even after I added two experience chevrons to the heavy peltasts.

Not asking them to charge is even worse-- they scatter and rout even faster, and the Egyptian chariots have a field day cutting down good Greeks.

:wall: Any idea what's wrong here? VBM means that chariots are much rarer, but I'll have to encounter them eventually.

EDIT: I play on Medium.


2nd EDIT:

It seems to me, on of the problems in RTW battles, is that Light Infantry doesn't seem to have a 3rd gear, above quick march; also there frequently seems to be anomalous fatigue-ing of lightly armoured units when climbing mountain sides. Number of times, I've found Principes "warmed up", when light units are winded is amazing.
Ugh, yes. This is especially evident when playing as the Greeks-- the completely unarmoured militia cavalry is often "winded" when the heavily-armoured general's bodyguard is only "warmed-up". :no:

[RLucid]

Haven't had to deal with Egyptian chariots, as I've played mostly with the Jullii, not battled in area between Rhodes and Carthage/Thapsus.

When I think of successful operations against Brit Chariots, I've done better when I've had some density to the formation.

A problem with skirmishers, is skirmish mode in 1.5. All to often they'll run to the wrong spot, or be running back & forth and getting tired. I'm turning it off more often now, but not in this spot. I don't rely on auto-fire either, the loose formation reduces friendly-fire, but I'll order a javellin storm despite meleeing own forces, if velites get caught by the chariots, rather than watch them get mown down.

Like Noble Heavy Cavalry charging, they will inevitably inflict some damage and casualites, but you try to minimise it and also the cost of replacements. You want to have them crack first before your units rout in disorder.

My initial idea, would be to add some cheap arrow fodder into the mix. Blocks of Town Watch squares, are hard to budge, and provide a line for skirmishers to retreat behind and perhaps would limit the chariots maneuver, making them easy to hit. I've tended to counter-attack the chariots from flanks, and with cavalry to, which are essential to eliminate them if they are routing and avoid a re-group and return to battle. Bottom line is stationary targets are harder to hit.

As 2 TW saw off some chariots in a wood to my surprise, perhaps they're not considered to be the Infantry with the chariot morale penalty, which would be an exploit I suppose.

[Quirinus]

Yeah-- when fighting a javelin-heavy faction, I always bring around a couple of peasant units, or at least town watch. Plus, as a bonus, they're even occasionally best the skirmishers when the charge, and are fast enough to cut them down when they rout.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I think that town watch are classified as units with the "spear" attribute in the text files. This gives them a +8 bonus vs. cavalry and a -4 bonus vs infantry. Since chariots are classified as cavalry units, this may be the reason for their sucess.

~:)

[Quirinus]

But the in-game description for the Roman town watch doesn't have any "Bonus against cavalry" under the "Abilities at a glance". Is this an oversight?

[RLucid]

I think I've seen a description in the game info somewhere, that they indeed do have some anti-cavalry capabilities. In my experience, they'll repulse badly handled barbarian light cavalry by themselves, who tire and rout quickly when the TW battle square doesn't budge, even though they don't get flanked and killed.

As they have a very low attack factor (1 IIRC) they must have a Cav bonus, to be able to have a better effect than Peasants (which I've not been sick enough to find a good use for on the battle field).

Perhaps the heroic Town Watch had some kind of cover bonus, and ambush effect when hidden. I'm also suspecting that their morale benefits (or opponent chariots had a penalty) from having other units close by supporting them (possibly simply the battle odds thing).

Using low quality cheaper troops, benefits the Jullii because they can capture extra settlements quickly (like Marsillia, Caralis, Segestica & Salona) with the backbone Hastati moving on shipped back to support the main effort. Also there's not delays to build barracks & militia barracks, to replace Hastati, their losses are easily made up by a single re-inforcing replacement unit following on.

[Quirinus]

https://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/mr_cereal/town_watch.png
If it had the spear attribute, wouldn't it have negative attack (or at least, zero) against infantry?

[RLucid]

OK so the attack is 3, rather low. Nothing about spear v cavalry, so lets assume no bonus.

With my deployments, which utilise skirmishers, they are not fighting alone on most occasions, kills will be done by missile troops. The Heroic Town Watch in the wood being the exceptions. So basically all they are doing is hold ground, and defending tiring the enemy. Generally then, if they're fresh they're unlikely to sap, the defence values strong enough to last without routing, before the attacking barbarian cavalry which won't be as fresh; they have the additional problem of getting outflanked and counter-attacked by re-deployed forces.

I have considered, using a thin screening line of Town Watch in front of archer unit, and then having Triarii charge into re-inforce, when Balenus's Gaullish Heavy Noble Cavalry, attempts to crash through the central gap in broken line formation.

But that does seem rather more cynical exploit, you slow up opposition, because they're attacking a spread out "helpless" unit, and trap them behind frontline for the counter-attackers. Whereas the battle square, plugs formation gap, whilst allowing maneuvers in gaps around the unit.

[RLucid]

Thread on Attack & Defense bonuses https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=48090

There is a "spear" according to that research an attribute, which apparently reduces effectiveness against Infantry, increase against Cavalry.

In Wood, chariots, cavalry with archer both have reduced effectiveness. Presumably the spears of Town Watch are a benefit against the ponies, and the shields would be effective, from the angle of attack. As the rear rank of TW turn round anyway, reducing opportunity unguarded attack, I wonder whether the AI didn't screw up badly in it's unit selection here.

May be it's not a fluke, and TW do better than Hastati who've I've seen routed several times in the open by similar chariots..