Schiltrom, how I love it!

[Kadagar_AV]

This might be old news... But lately I've come to absolutely LOVE the schiltrom formation, as it basicly means I can flank in the middle.

I've tested a new tactic where I spaced out 3 schiltrom-able units with some distance between...

Enough distance to let my troops trough, but less than the AI can handle, so their units gets tangled up in fights.

Then having some shocktroops charge the gaps means, basicly, you will flank the enemy tangled up with your schiltrom in the middle of the field, while of course simultaneosly doing the standard hammer - anvil tactic.

I didnt get the point of the schiltrom, except as a "fight to the death" thing, untill I noticed this...

It takes quite a bit of micromanagement, but the victories you can pull off = awesome.

try it, and say what you think:)

/Yours in glory

[Askthepizzaguy]

If your spearmen armies are ever engaged in secret maneuvers inside a forest, and they are spotted, the best defense is the giant schiltrom:

Not actually using the schiltrom formation, place your troops in such a way that all of their spears are facing out. Keep your general, archers, and artillery inside this circular spearwall fortress. Keep your cavalry outside, until they are tired and depleted, then have them rush inside your spearwall.

Works especially well when troops are set to guard mode, or if they have a spearwall or phalanx formation, use it.

Because they are hidden, the enemy will not realize right away what tactic you are using. Because they are in a forest, the enemy cannot use cavalry or archers effectively. Because your general is in the middle, these troops will fight to the death if necessary.

Even better is to place them on a hill.

You can do this formation on hills as well, without a forest, but if the enemy has many archers, the formation will fail.

[Ramses II CP]

Danish Swordstaff militia are excellent for the self made schiltrom like ATPG describes. Put some Norse Archers in the middle and send 'em into the melee when their arrows run out. It's a very effective defensive formation against cavalry heavy armies.

Same deal works even better with the various flavors of English longbowmen, because their stakes can take the place of the infantry. Of course it's a bit of an exploit against the AI because they just don't have any answer for it. Call it the stake schiltrom of doom. Only elephants can break it.

:egypt:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I might suggest that catapults, trebuchets, and other forms of artillery render the idea of schiltroms quite useless.

Static targets clumped together? Bad idea, there cowboy. The 500 pound flaming rocks which crush men by the dozen render schiltroms of any kind obsolete. But I consider artillery in the field to be a drag on the ability to march, and therefore a liability in all but seige situations.

:smash:

[pike master]

How about these?

https://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s286/hunterhornet/swisshalberdiers.jpg

https://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s286/hunterhornet/halberdschiltrom.jpg

https://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s286/hunterhornet/vcpikeschiltrom2.jpg

[ReiseReise]

I experimented a little bit with using it while defending sieges, putting a schiltrom on either side of the gate with some heavy hitters to attack their general etc who is trapped between.. Also if you only have 2 or 3 units and are overwhelmed at the gate, they can fight more effectively against the units who get behind them. I did it mostly for variety, its hard to tell what is more effective, massacring the enemy with schiltroms or massacring the enemy without.

While we are on the subject of formation abilities, could anyone explain the best way to use Shield wall. I never played BI where it was introduced, but playing Broken Crescent some units have the ability (Slavic swordsmen and Daylamites come to mind.) and I'd like to know the specific pros/cons if they are more complicated than resists charges better/ less mobility.

[Ramses II CP]

I might suggest that catapults, trebuchets, and other forms of artillery render the idea of schiltroms quite useless.

Static targets clumped together? Bad idea, there cowboy. The 500 pound flaming rocks which crush men by the dozen render schiltroms of any kind obsolete. But I consider artillery in the field to be a drag on the ability to march, and therefore a liability in all but seige situations.

:smash:

No doubt if the AI were at all competent with it's artillery even the stake schiltrom of doom wouldn't last... but it's not. Artillery in the hands of the AI is, barring a lucky shot against your general, a non-factor. Against another player you wouldn't use schiltrom anyway because it can't move well enough to be effective.

:egypt:

[Askthepizzaguy]

No doubt if the AI were at all competent with it's artillery even the stake schiltrom of doom wouldn't last... but it's not. Artillery in the hands of the AI is, barring a lucky shot against your general, a non-factor. Against another player you wouldn't use schiltrom anyway because it can't move well enough to be effective.

:egypt:

I wouldn't use spearmen in schiltrom formation at all unless I were the defender in a battle. Otherwise my opponent can simply walk away from them and ignore them, and focus on my other troops.

Hence spears are better defensive troops than offensive troops, imo.

They have their uses killing generals in the city center though...

[PBI]

Pike master, how did you get highland pikemen to do schiltrom? I didn't think the Scots had a unit with that ability, which is kind of silly since they invented it.

I have had good experiences using a unit of spears on schiltrom when using missile or artillery heavy armies, to buy time for my missiles to do more damage, since they will snarl up the enemy advance while still leaving gaps for your missiles to pass through.

[pike master]

If you have kingdoms use dismounted Halbrudder animation but if mtw2 use the Swiss Guard animation.

type Highland Pikemen
dictionary Highland_Pikemen ; Highland Pikemen
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Light
banner faction main_spear
banner holy crusade
soldier Dismounted_Halbbruder , 60, 0, 4
officer Highland_Nobles_ug1
officer Highland_Nobles_ug1
officer Highland_Nobles_ug1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square, schiltrom
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, axe, 25, 1
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr spear,ap, spear_bonus_12
;stat_sec 5, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 25, 1
;;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
;stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 0, 6, 5, flesh
;stat_armour_ex 0, 2, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 1, -2, 3, 4
stat_mental 5, impetuous, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 0
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 360, 125, 65, 150, 360, 4, 100
armour_ug_levels 0, 1
armour_ug_models Highland_Pikemen, Highland_Pikemen_ug1
ownership scotland
era 1 scotland
era 2 scotland
;unit_info 8, 0, 6
recruit_priority_offset 40

[Old Geezer]

If this doesn't qualify for an uber unit, I'd like to know what does. Pikes with no secondary rubber knives that can do the schiltom, walk at near running speed, and cost 360 to recruit from just about any city and 125 to maintain. Wow.

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

Near the start of the game, i used skiltrom alot, as when i charge a small part of my unit breaks off, if i use skiltrom the unit stays together, making them much more effective in battle. They might not work aswell if it is raining arrows, but why would anybody let it rain arrows when there is a decent cavalry unit to cut through the clouds, if you get my point.

Anyway, i tend to use skiltrom in early periods as units are not that strong, but if they are together atleast they are more effective and suffer less losses

[Eikon the Magistrate]

Seems I am one of the few with gripes on this tactic. Sure the spear unit
may withstand an attack better. However, you lose all/most mobility with it. Basically, if you are losing mobility in your forces it can only be offset by gaining mobility with others or else you have trapped yourself.
A spear unit for me is useful for 2 things only... killing cavalry and filling in a front line. Both require mobility since both require that the unit moves. A schiltrom will kill the cav but wont fill the line, and will only kill the cav IF it happens to attack it. Another thing, the formation is designed to withstand attack from all sides..this assumes of course that the attacks ARE coming from all sides..I consider being outflanked a terrible strategic loss on
my part so I have no intention to prepare for that "eventuality." I have created my own "schiltrom" in my past experiences in MTW1 I refer to it as the sliding L. Which in essence is the front line with the extra 2-3 spear in reserve behind it on the sloped or "higher" side of your line allowing them to charge downhill in 1 direction at a flank attack or defend the higher ground from the other.

The only occasion I use schiltrom in is a bridge defense or perhaps in a gateway but only if I have more spear available if not they are kept in reserve to fulfill the cav killing role.

Also since many factions are missle heavy it kinda makes it a rare exception to NOT face archers etc and IF you have few cav in that stack... problems occur with a stationary defense.

[imnothere]

hmm, i guess it can be use as a passive-offense - by providing an obstacle for any counter-attacking force and an alternative target (crappy english spears comes to mind) while your more expensive longbowmen move in conjunction with the schiltron units to pump arrows into the inerted AI units, or most likely, providing a protective wall for your missile units.

i too, like schiltron, until i found out that the enemy has lots of artillery units...~:eek:

[locked_thread]

edit

[Pater Familias]

I've started using it in sieges on the offensive. It's particularly useful once I'm inside the walls but while enemy counterattacks are still a threat. I often find it hard to wedge two units into a narrow street, but with one in schiltrom and one forward facing, it works quite well.
You're not worried about mobility anyway, at that point, so I use schiltrom to screen my missile troops shooting the length of the street into massed enemy troop movements.
As Sicily, invading Moorish Marrakesh, I was able to get a ballista to fire flaming missiles just past the schiltrom, with two Muslim archers on the walls behind. When cavalry charged, I wheeled in a second spear unit from the side street. Any other units didn't make it the length of the street through the mass of flaming projectiles. Quite a light show.

[Dead Guy]

I seldom use the schiltrom in the open field, but reading this made me try it out a little.
I'm playing Venice (in TLR) and therefore italian spear militia was the core of my early army. The AI sallied against a my rather weak sieging army, and they had a really problematic general (as in lot's-of-chevrons-wouldn't-die-or-break-ever problematic). I put two units in schiltrom sort of at the corners of the spearunit standing directly behind them, and then my general behind them at the start. This made the AI foolishly charge his general right at the spears standing behind the schiltroms, which made the general charachter slam right into one of the schiltroms... and die. I could then manouver the units out ffrom behind the schiltrom-pair and engage the rest of the army that started to pile up against them.

Some observations with no real testing to back it up...
I may be wrong but it seems that cavalry have a harder time breaking apart a schiltrom when charging it sometimes, maybe it's because it's aiming for something else... it also seems like the horses can't squeeze in between the spearmen and thus the riders can't properly, or at least not very effectively, swing their swords to their sides which is their attack animation, no? Thus reducing casualties for your spears if they're not annihilated by that perfect charge (of doom) the AI sometimes manages to get in.
:skull:

[PBI]

I would agree that spearmen in shiltrom seem to survive a frontal formed charge much better than in normal formation. I suspect this is intentional as the only time I ever see the AI use it is when I attack an all-spear army with an all-cav army. It seems counter-intuitive to me, but maybe it's to simulate the horses' tendency to run around the formation if they can rather than into it.

[Duke Bart]

Schiltrom has always been a mixed bag with me, ive seen it do some great things in battles while other times i go check out my calvalry for a second and when i look back they died :skull:

Of course the amazing $#!# its pulled off makes it worth using :D