View Full Version : Random Romani Questions
SaberHRE
03-21-2008, 21:58
I thought one Romani thread which would cover most EB questions should be created.
So, I got a few questions.
How many Gentes have been implemented into the game.
Why can't the Romani recruit numidian nobles
I recently read a bit about Sertorius. Prior to this, I always thought of him as an evil Roman rebel, but I read that he was quite a noble and "heroic" fellow, could someone expand on his character?
General Appo
03-21-2008, 22:40
Romani can recruit Numidian Nobles, a L4 Gov and Regional MIC L5 you can recruit Numidian Nobles in most western African regions.
SaberHRE
03-21-2008, 23:08
aren't those "African generals"? because I conquered Sala and maxed out the barracks on L4 government and nothing.
As far as I know, the Romani cannot recruit Numidian Nobles. As for the reason why, I don't know, but African Generals are better anyhow. Plus one attack on their lance and plus one more defense skill. They do have 3 less attack against elephants compared to Numidian Nobles though, but I highly doubt you'll be seeing too many elephants out there.
Revenant
03-21-2008, 23:39
Nice Idea, as I am playing as Romani too:)
My question:
Why Romani cannot get any priest ancillaries? All romani priest ancillaries are disabled in datafiles. The data are present, but all have ";" at the start of the line.
It bothered me I never got any of them.
How many Gentes have been implemented into the game.
There are 11 in EB1. EB1.1 has 6 more.
Seleukus
03-22-2008, 02:24
I recently read a bit about Sertorius. Prior to this, I always thought of him as an evil Roman rebel, but I read that he was quite a noble and "heroic" fellow, could someone expand on his character?
The Life of Sertorius, by Plutarch (http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/mirror/classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/sertoriu.html)
Dont rely too heavily on Plutarch though. He is .. how do i put it, he isnt too reliable to say the least.
pezhetairoi
03-22-2008, 13:59
You have forgotten the most important question of all:
Why aren't Lorica Segmentata in the game?!?!?!?!???!!!!??!?!??
Nice Idea, as I am playing as Romani too:)
My question:
Why Romani cannot get any priest ancillaries? All romani priest ancillaries are disabled in datafiles. The data are present, but all have ";" at the start of the line.
It bothered me I never got any of them.
i've wondered this too...
Centurion Crastinus
03-22-2008, 18:03
Every time I have built a type 4 government I automatically receive a general in the provence regardless of any barracks that I have built.
Watchman
03-22-2008, 18:22
That's called "client ruler".
anubis88
03-22-2008, 21:51
Why aren't Lorica Segmentata in the game?!?!?!?!???!!!!??!?!??
Shouldn't it be why ISN'T Lorica in the game o great Segmentata master?:laugh4:
Sorry, couldn't resist it:beam:
pezhetairoi
03-23-2008, 01:46
So I'm sorta a fellow in segments/pieces being consulted on the complete lack of armour ingame? XD
SaberHRE
03-24-2008, 21:28
ok, this is akward. Are the optimas and popularis "groupings" supposed to dissappear once in a while, when most of the families belong to the nobile? Is there a way to revive popular causes?
That's nothing to worry about. Optimates and Populares are two political views. If your family members are all Optimates, then they favour the senate. Through marriage, adoption or the events of his life, you can still get a family member who favours the people (i.e. is popularis).
Popularis is more likely for plebeians and worshipers of Ceres. And is a requirement for the Marian reforms, so look to get more 'liberal' plebeians when the suitors come knocking.
Disciple of Tacitus
03-25-2008, 21:13
ok, this is akward. Are the optimas and popularis "groupings" supposed to dissappear once in a while, when most of the families belong to the nobile? Is there a way to revive popular causes?
I've noticed that too SaberHRE. You can use the political leanings of your Senate to implement changes such as deciding when to wage war - role-play/house rules stuff. "Popularis" seems a rare breed, but you'll need one for the Marian reforms, so - as previously noted - adopt liberally! :laugh4:
pezhetairoi
03-26-2008, 11:58
I don't think I'll have a problem getting popularis every once in a while, since ALL my temples are temples of Ceres... XD
KhaziOfKalabara
03-26-2008, 12:00
Romani can recruit Numidian Nobles, a L4 Gov and Regional MIC L5 you can recruit Numidian Nobles in most western African regions.
Are there any elephants available to the Romani, even as Mercs? I wouldn't mind recreating Cynoscephalae now and again...
Strategos Alexandros
03-26-2008, 12:09
I think you can get them from Numidia and Ippone with a L4 regional but I could be wrong.
Olimpian
03-26-2008, 13:09
https://img512.imageshack.us/img512/624/55652783dw2.png
Type 4 gov & lvl 5 regional MIC in those regions and you've got your eles
SaberHRE
03-26-2008, 14:09
weird, managed to create Lvl4 and MIC5 in Ippone but no elephants.
Disciple of Tacitus
03-26-2008, 17:01
Elephant question answered in another thread, not sure where. Nowhere in Africa can the Romans recruit Elepants. For whatever reason. Spend the money on your MICs for African Generals and Numidian Nobles, but regardless you will NOT get elephants. Only the EB Team can answer that.
Personally, elephants are so vulnerable to javelins, I would never use them.
@Pez. ... How does having Ceres Temples increase your chance of getting the Popularis trait?
Strategos Alexandros
03-26-2008, 17:49
[QUOTE=Disciple of Tacitus]Personally, elephants are so vulnerable to javelins, I would never use them.[QUOTE]
I put them behind my lines until all the javelin troops are either engaged or have been chased off, then charge them and my heavy cvalry into the enemy rear. I find myself doing this with every faction I play, which is probably why I'm so rubbish as Casse.
KhaziOfKalabara
03-26-2008, 19:10
[QUOTE=Disciple of Tacitus]
Personally, elephants are so vulnerable to javelins, I would never use them.
QUOTE]
Well, I play with that first cohort / phalanx / elephant mod which beefs them up a little - but frankly, if I just wanted effective armies rather than those with personality I wouldn't use hastati either, so effectiveness / value for money is not my primary concern.
Anyway, it seems it's somewhat academic now anyway...!
when do romans get heay cavalry? equites and all cavalry(mercs) with around 25 charge does absolutely nothing when I charge them into a infantry unit's flank or rear. when I say nothing I mean killing 1 soldier out of the entire unit on the charge ( that is on one of those rare super charges) and loosing a few horses 10 secs after being engaged in melee. if I leave it there, the cavalry unit will probably be wipe out very fast. so I thought, lets use it to chase routers, but it seems broken/routing units retain all their defense stats, or am I seeing things? cuz it takes forever for my cavalry to kill off a single routing infantry unit. I know their weapons are hitting the fleeing unit, but it just doesn't kill them most of the time :wall: forget about medium or heavy phalanxes, even rear ramming will own my cavalry unit, found out the hard way when I fight the Carthaginians.
how to use cavalry units in EB? I thought rear ramming was a given??? they should die when doing frontal assaults and got bogged down, but not when rear charging already engaged infantry units :2cents:
someone give some advice.
Strategos Alexandros
03-26-2008, 19:37
What difficulty do you play on?
VH/M like the FAQ suggests.
Strategos Alexandros
03-26-2008, 19:52
What sort of cavalry are you using then?
Revenant
03-26-2008, 19:53
Take your cavalry unit. Move it to the back/ flank of engaged enemy unit. Wait until unit is formed. Double clik on enemy unit - cavalry goes to gallop and then, after the sound of horn, charge. Wait until cavalry go into contact, wait some time, then disengage it and repeat.
You probably do not charge in formation, that is the problem. I use mainly bodyguard cavalry and Brihentin and with excellent results.
Strategos Alexandros
03-26-2008, 19:57
Or if you're using Hippeis or Equites Romani then go and get some decent cavalry.
Olimpian
03-26-2008, 21:55
This talk of the lack of decent Roman cavalry reminds me of a battle I had against th Baktrians in Mesopotamia.On my left wing I had my FM with some 20 bodyguards - BTW,I think the Roman FM's bodyguards are the weakest in the game,save maybe the Casse ones - and a unit of Greek Medium Cavalry;on the enemy's right wing some 60 or so of the finest Baktrian Kataphract Bodyguards :oops: Talk about a mismatch...Took 3 units of hoplites to pin them down and endless charges by my puny cavalry to rout them.And guess what?The enemy FM was the only survivor and got away :furious3: Thank-god for assassins or I would have never killed him.
Anyway,indecent as Roman cavalry is,a well placed and timed rear charge can do a lot of damage,morale-wise at least :2cents:
so where can romans recruit good cavalry?
Watchman
03-27-2008, 02:15
They can get Brihentin with level 5 "local" MICs in Celtic areas, can't they ?
so that means the first 50 to 100 turns = no cavalry support?
The romans themselves?
Never!
Disciple of Tacitus
03-27-2008, 06:59
@Crazii. YEARS before you get really great cav. But you can make do with the cav that you do have available. I've found the Extraordinarii Pedites (?) Italic Heavy Cavalry to be like small tanks on the field. Definately tougher then the FM's bodyguards.
It could be all the chevron's that is doing the trick.
Anyway, I'm a big fan of the Campaian Cav. Versitile and well-priced. Until you get those great cav units from the East, you will have to make do. Best thing is to take this time to fine-tune your cav tactics. Pay attention to the horn and the lowering of the lances for the charge. THAT'S when you get your charge bonus. Otherwise you are just engaging the enemy with infantry on horseback, not cavalry.
SaberHRE
03-27-2008, 11:47
Yep, the Campanian cavalry won many battles for me, probably the best cavalry the Romans can afford for Camillan and Polybian legions. The Equites Extraordinarii are expensive and quite unreliable at the beginning, but years of fighting will make them "Lesser Cataphracts".
Green Roman cavalry units should be resorted to chasing a routing enemy, just to provide them with experience.
Btw, those who have expanded into Numidia, use the Numidian Cavalry. They don't tire themselves easily, are extremely fast and quite useful when breaking a "wavering" enemy.
At 2 golden chevron status the fight very well as medium cav.
Strategos Alexandros
03-27-2008, 13:23
I can't use Campanians because they crash my computer but the Numidians are good, especially the nobles.
SaberHRE
03-27-2008, 16:19
unfortunately the Romans can't recruit the Numidian nobles, a real pity because they are excellent units.
Alexandros have you posted a thread in the help about the crashes? Campanians work fine for me.
KhaziOfKalabara
03-27-2008, 17:13
unfortunately the Romans can't recruit the Numidian nobles, a real pity because they are excellent units.
Alexandros have you posted a thread in the help about the crashes? Campanians work fine for me.
They've never crashed my computer either, though there's something funky going on with the sarissas/kontoi (it's a known bug I believe)...
was it where the sarissas have jagged edges? if so, then do look up video options. if not,, then throw a rotten tomato at me for the heck of it..:beam:
then tell me more about the funky thingy..
Strategos Alexandros
03-27-2008, 20:19
unfortunately the Romans can't recruit the Numidian nobles, a real pity because they are excellent units.
Alexandros have you posted a thread in the help about the crashes? Campanians work fine for me.
I posted in another thread about it, they said it was a known bug and would be fixed for 1.1.
ok-why aren't the tomatos flying?
I just tried the Brihentin in custom battle. elite african phalanx engaged with my defending infantry unit. it took the Brihentin 6 charges to finally rout it :() all charges were to the rear. they were all good charges with spears lowered, horns blown! cavalry is too weak :(
how do I increase cavalry mass in the edu? that way I can increase them to my liking, please help a newbie out.
Watchman
03-28-2008, 06:35
...what part of "elite phalanx" you didn't get...?
Parallel Pain
03-28-2008, 08:07
LOL
You think your cavalry is weak? Imagine what I had to go through on VH/VH fighting ptolemy elite guards siege after siege with only two units of Arabian light cavalry (and some other infantry). AND I had no way of reinforce them.
And don't forget. That custom battle is messed up because you're fighting general unit which takes a lot more to route than other units
Disciple of Tacitus
03-28-2008, 08:23
@ Crazii If you are REALLY keen for some great cav units, you'll just have to head East. Quit your Romani campaign, say good bye to heavy infantry and pick an Eastern Faction.
Which faction you ask? Well, ask and see how many answers you get.
SaberHRE
03-28-2008, 08:54
The thessalian mercs are recommended. They have a really powerful charge stat, which will be useful in breaking the Ptolemaic phalanxes.
Now he's a question, has anyone seen a Plebeian optimates or patrician popularis?
General Appo
03-28-2008, 12:36
Many times, just as I´ve seen Claudian and Julian pleibs.
why do you think I wrote adjusting the stat to my liking? don't you get it watchman? :rolleyes2:
pain, it is RTW, VH battle means peasant armies owning elite heavy infantry in vanilla, I imagine levies owning elites in EB. just so you know, the general of the phalanx died during the first charge.
I just wanna know how to change the mass :( gonna do that to most of the non missile merc cavalries, so every faction will have access. AI recruit mercs right?
Parallel Pain
03-28-2008, 16:25
Oh did I forget to mention that I am Saba having to fight the elite phalanx in VH?
Or did you not pick it up?
Your Brihentin have 30 charge bonus, 4 lance attack, 9 sword attack, 24 defence.
My Arabic Light Cavalry in melee only have 25 charge bonus, 3 lance attack, no other melee attack, and only 11 def.
So why are u complaining and I'm not?
Just learn to use your cavalry properly. If everytime you run into trouble you go altering stats you might as well not play EB at all.
Or if you want better cavalry go play other faction that use more heavy cavalry.
If you are new to EB, remember that unit morale has been altered so it's a lot harder to get chainroute. I believe EB is trying to bring RTW back to the tactical quality of STW and MTW as close as they can.
General Appo
03-28-2008, 16:35
Why don´t you ask PP how he managed to complete a Saka Rauka VH/VH campaign.
Face it Crazii, you´re not doing it right. Me, I can´t fight a battle without cavalry, I always suffer to many casualties. Even Equites Romani are of great use when employed properly. Just let the Hastatii or whatever engage from the front and then charge the cavalry in the back. If they don´t insta-rout, then withdraw the cavalry before it get´s stuck and prepare to charge again.
Or just use it to keep the missile units busy, a single unit of Equites Romani can pin down 4 or 5 units of archers, slingers, javeliners and the like, as long as you´re not facing Peltastai, Syrian Archers and stuff like that.
Disciple of Tacitus
03-28-2008, 16:48
Now he's a question, has anyone seen a Plebeian optimates or patrician popularis?
Not yet and it is 215 BC in my campaign.
Disciple of Tacitus
03-28-2008, 17:02
Before this escalates into name calling, try this Crazii...
Waiting.
Wait a little until your Hastati or Principes have tired out the enemy ranks. Its what they do. Put your cursor over them and when you see them tired or better yet "wavering" - Charge Home. Also, If the enemy unit knows you are there ("Concerned about Flanks"), your chance for rout is higher.
Don't worry, a little practise and you will come to it. I was in the same boat as you. A HUGE cav fan - I used to roam the map with whole cav armies - and then I got to EB 1.0. Cav is expensive, not as effective, blah, blah. I hear you, brother. We didn't roll that way before.
But EB 1.0 is more realistic then anything out there and yes, cavalry's role is relfected in that. Practise a bit more. Hit "pause" more. Follow the front line of battle. See where the weaknesses show up. Exploit them with your cav. Soon it will be second nature and you will be accomplishing with light or medium cav what you previously could only do with heavy cav.
tacitus, I know I know, loads of self rightious people these days, always thinking their way is the only way of doing things. oooh, can this be consider name calling? I never use cavalry armies, but I like to use them for rear ramming, so I always have 2-4 per stack. when an infantry unit gets to wavering status, even without the charge it will rout in no time. that totally defeats the purpose of having cavalry units in the stack, to me anyway. they just become much less useful.
pain, who say anything about wanting chain routing? it isn't what I want at all. I hate to break it to you, it still happens in EB, especially when you slam 3 heavy cals into their backs, killing the general before the raming helps. where did I ever mentioned having trouble? I only wanted a way to make cavalry to my liking, stating how weak they are to me. how is using the cavalry unit for rear charging not using it properly? do tell. is complaining bad? hell, if no one complains there will be no feed back. besides, all I want is a way for me to change the cavalry in my game, not like I am telling the EB modders to change it in EB, get it?
please don't bring up stw or mtw, it isn't like you are the only one who played them. it isn't like bringing them up will give your post some magic points. what you believe in is just your opinion, don't make it sound as if you represent the EB team.
Parallel Pain
03-28-2008, 20:51
Ok so how about the EB team is trying to make cavalry as historical as possible?
And complaining about the stength/weakness of a unit when you don't have a problem is just...:sweatdrop:
Of course if you still want no matter what (which would be weird imo), and you don't mind messing up historical accuracy and risking messing up the balance of the game, you can always go to the export_descr_unit file and change a few stuff.
well I finally figure out where I can I change the mass of mounts.
eb/data/descr_mount.txt open it up and change the mount mass of any mountable animal you like. just wanted to share the fruit of my search.
QuintusSertorius
04-01-2008, 22:09
I recently read a bit about Sertorius. Prior to this, I always thought of him as an evil Roman rebel, but I read that he was quite a noble and "heroic" fellow, could someone expand on his character?
One of Rome's greatest generals and a leader of irregular forces without peer. He also seems to be eminently forgettable whenever historians are covering the late period of the Republic, even though he fought Pompey to a standstill in Spain. If he'd been giving a proper command during the civil war with Sulla, the course of history might have been different.
Pompey was a brilliant organiser and manager of logistics. He was a pretty average general, although he did know how to inspire his troops. Which is why he could beat Eastern kings and barbarians, but the only times he came up against capable generals, he lost. They being Sertorius and Caesar. Interestingly, in his campaigns in the East he seems to have adopted a few tactics Sertorius sprung against him.
sgsandor
04-02-2008, 04:51
Nice Idea, as I am playing as Romani too:)
My question:
Why Romani cannot get any priest ancillaries? All romani priest ancillaries are disabled in datafiles. The data are present, but all have ";" at the start of the line.
It bothered me I never got any of them.
This is a good question what is up with that?
QuintusSertorius
04-02-2008, 09:31
I've gotten the odd pontifex before.
Revenant
04-02-2008, 10:05
I posted this question in traits+ ancillaries thread and:
MarcusAureliusAntoninus:
Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Frequently Asked Questions
The Priest ancillaries were entirely reworked before the v1.0 release. It may be that the Romani priests were not yet finished...
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
04-02-2008, 22:46
As I recall we removed the priests because they were a-historical and it wasn't possible to represent them without tons of scripting, triggers and crud, then you'd probably never get them. So they got shelved.
rapanui17
08-07-2011, 12:33
Why can't I recruit balearic slingers in Bocchoris neither with level 5 local MIC?
GenosseGeneral
08-07-2011, 14:46
Because Romans can't.
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/index.php?mp=unit&unit=iberian%20missile%20balearic%20slinger&text=&ownership=egypt&class=missile&category=infantry
Loo at the factions. Roman can get them only as Mercs.
Here's a tactical question that I'm sure has been asked before, but I wouldn't know where to look for it: As the Romani, is there any point in using Hastati, other than to be historically accurate? I was looking at their stats, and they are very simmilar to Principes, with lower defense and only slightly lower upkeep cost. I've been paging through this forum and when I see people's pre-marian armies, many of them contain just Principes and a few Triarii, so I'm guessing there really is not much tactical sense to having Hastati in one's army. I would understand if maybe the Hastati had better stamina or better attack points than the Principes, but they are the same.
NikosMaximilian
08-08-2011, 03:34
Here's a tactical question that I'm sure has been asked before, but I wouldn't know where to look for it: As the Romani, is there any point in using Hastati, other than to be historically accurate? I was looking at their stats, and they are very simmilar to Principes, with lower defense and only slightly lower upkeep cost. I've been paging through this forum and when I see people's pre-marian armies, many of them contain just Principes and a few Triarii, so I'm guessing there really is not much tactical sense to having Hastati in one's army. I would understand if maybe the Hastati had better stamina or better attack points than the Principes, but they are the same.
Well that slight upkeep cost difference gets bigger and bigger as you keep expanding and need more armies. Don't forget that until 172BC you don't get Marian reforms. The Hastati is reasonably cheap when you see their stats compared with similar units. I see three different roles for them: Cannon fodder, line holders or reserves, depending on your approach. If you use the quincunx formation, think of them as pawns.
Cannon fodder: Since they're one of the cheapest non-missile infantry, you put them in the front line to take up arrows, sling shots and enemy charges. That way, you keep the Principes, Trarii and other more expensive units protected. They have good morale, so they won't rout unless the casualties really start to pile up.
Line holders: Their historical role. Hold the line when charged upon. Lock the enemy infantry so other troops can flank them. Also wear them down and soak up the damage and then send more and better troops to start a rout.
Reserves: I don't use them much in this role, maybe in some specifical situations. When attacked by a very strong enemy stack that surely will cut the Hastati down; place the archers/slingers in front, Principes, Triarii and other heavy infantry in the main line, and the Hastati and the light infantry as reserves. That way you get some good reserve/flanking units.
Basileus_ton_Basileon
08-08-2011, 09:24
Well said, Nikos.
Remember, though it is poorly represented in the RTW engine (EB2 will fix that). Principes are wealthy veterans at the prime of their life- these guys are not always readily available (look up on the manpower crises prior to the Marian Reforms). In a very Roman sense, the Hastati are your zerglings. The only lot that's probably more expendable than them are the velites.
As far as I'm aware the manpower crisis applied to all kinds of soldiers who had to be able to avoid their own equipment, not just the principes. I can't recall reading any sources that suggested Hastati were judged expendable. Plus there's quite a few historians who hold that the hastati and principes lines fought very close to eachother anyway in mutual support.
That said, from a power-gaming perspective I'd say the 10% decrease in cost in no way compensates for the Principes' higher defence and training. The latter in particular makes the Principes better lineholders. Sure, once you have a big region under your control you'd save some money by using hastati. But even if you have ten armies with 4 extra units of Principes instead of Hastati you'd only save 1200 gold a turn. You can save twice as much by scrapping a single trireme fleet. And by that point the Romans are swimming in money and can have both fleets and elite legions if they want to.
But yeah, it'll be different in EB2. And even in 1, it's just more fun to use armies that look like they did historically, i.m.o. What's the point in playing a historical mod if you then use armies of pedites extraordinarii and Scythian riders? (to name an extreme example.)
p.s. I wish there was a way to convince the AI of my last point. They certainly seem to see no point in not spamming PE.
Line holders: Their historical role. Hold the line when charged upon. Lock the enemy infantry so other troops can flank them. Also wear them down and soak up the damage and then send more and better troops to start a rout.
so melee cannon fodder^^
As far as I'm aware the manpower crisis applied to all kinds of soldiers who had to be able to avoid their own equipment, not just the principes. that may tecnically be correct but the situation for Hastati probably was easier than for Princeps. As a) Princeps carry more equipment that had to be attained b) Princeps were supposed to be veterans. b) birth rates were much higher in those times while people generally died earlier which means there are more young men than "men in the prime of their life".
PS you did mean to say provide instead of avoid?
I can't recall reading any sources that suggested Hastati were judged expendable.most of those sources are roman sources they would try to avoid all suggestions that the republic throws away the young men.
Plus there's quite a few historians who hold that the hastati and principes lines fought very close to eachother anyway in mutual support. "hold the line willya sonney!";" when I was your age I killed 20 men in just one battle!";"no no no, not like that your wrist should be locked!";"I saw that!";"you mangy litte... !! You keep your hands off my daughter! when the gauls don't get you I will!".
not do disdain your point, I just waited for that cue.^^
That said, from a power-gaming perspective I'd say the 10% decrease in cost in no way compensates for the Principes' higher defence and training. The latter in particular makes the Principes better lineholders. Sure, once you have a big region under your control you'd save some money by using hastati. But even if you have ten armies with 4 extra units of Principes instead of Hastati you'd only save 1200 gold a turn. You can save twice as much by scrapping a single trireme fleet. And by that point the Romans are swimming in money and can have both fleets and elite legions if they want to.
But yeah, it'll be different in EB2. And even in 1, it's just more fun to use armies that look like they did historically, i.m.o. What's the point in playing a historical mod if you then use armies of pedites extraordinarii and Scythian riders? (to name an extreme example.) full agree here, princeps really are superior all in all(in EB1).
Tho It's always funny to see the AI spam PedExes while I use unarmored troops with clubs^^
Uh, yeah. Provide. Oops.
As for them being expendable... I recall reading any secondary literature that argued such either. And it just doesn't make any sense to regard free citizen-soldiers as expendable. Some kind of useless peasant levy or unreliable ally or uppity noble, sure. But your own sons? I'd be extremely surprised if any republican Roman thought of their hastati like that.
Also, the Principes may have been older, but not that much older. The Triarii were the long-serving veterans. So the "sonny" comments should probably be left for those. ;-)
Ah, thanks guys. I now have a very vivid, very silly image of the Roman battle line, (complete with curmudgeonly triarii;) Yeah, I figured from a strict gameplay perspective, there's little point to having both types of units, and I'm glad to hear it will be fixed in EB2. And I think Randal is correct; any romani player considering fielding legions of principes is indeed swimming in money, and does not need to worry about a few extra mnai spent on better troops.
On a slight tangent, I actually -did- field a few legions of mostly Polybian Principes in my game as I was getting close to the Marian reforms and I wanted to represent a slower evolution to the professional army. The Principes here represented a kind of transitional-legionary with more uniform equipment after Rome's great conquests and more disciplined than before.
Well, I'm back with yet another Romani question (this thread was a really good idea, SaberHRE). The marian reforms have just occured and I've been reforming my town watch across the Republic, replacing everything with Vigiles. However, I noticed that most of Greece cannot recruit said Vigiles, so I went to the recruitment viewer and discovered that only the western "Empire" has acess to them, ending at the Balkans. First question: Does anyone know what the historical reasoning is behind the EB team's limitation of Vigile recruitment area? Why can't they be recruited throughout the lands rome historically had under it's sway? Second question: What might be a good universal eastern substitute, if such a thing exists? Thanks in advance.
Titus Marcellus Scato
08-20-2011, 11:18
First question: Does anyone know what the historical reasoning is behind the EB team's limitation of Vigile recruitment area? Why can't they be recruited throughout the lands rome historically had under it's sway? Second question: What might be a good universal eastern substitute, if such a thing exists? Thanks in advance.
First question: Don't know, but maybe it's got something to do with the eastern (Hellenic) areas of the empire having a very nominal 'pseudo-independence' - i.e. they are not FULLY Romanised, but still retain elements of their native Hellenic culture - a culture that the Romans respect and do not consider 'barbarian' - and thus they are allowed to have their own 'Vigile' equivalents equipped according to their local style, rather than Roman/Italian style Vigiles?
Second question: So, with the above in mind, eastern empire 'Vigile' equivalents would probably be Hoplitai Haploi (Greek Levy Hoplites) or Pantodapoi (Hellenic Native Spearmen). Recruitable from Level 1 Regional barracks. If you check them out in the Recruitment Viewer, you will see that their recruitment areas cover almost the entire area of the historic Roman Empire where Vigiles cannot be recruited. Sparta is the only exception, where you can't recruit either Levy Hoplites or Hellenic Native Spearmen, and you'll have to use Hellenic Skirmishers instead or transport a garrison in from elsewhere. (Galatia is not a problem, Vigiles can be recruited there.)
The Romans kept using lots and lots of native allies even throughout the Marian period anyway, so having varied local troops makes sense. Not to mention that it's more fun. My Marian armies vary in composition, but include up to 50% allied troops of varied origins and of various classes, which makes every army in every theatre of war pretty much unique. Does a lot to keep up my interest this long into a campaign.
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