View Full Version : Creative Assembly Routers crushing my Cavalry - hmm reminds me of....
My Ghulam Bodyguards and Saharan Cavalry are sometimes devastated by routers. I'll point it out now that it doesn't always happen but in particular cases they lose half their number if I don't watch what's going on.
What is so damn hard about removing this silly code from the game, the programmers/designers must be thick if they think fleeing troops can cut down my elite cavalry. It makes it all the more harmful because of the low numbers in a cav unit.
anymapkoku
10-08-2002, 16:07
Think of it this way. You run into the middle of a mob (in Spain) of crazymen who are themselves running from the bulls. What do you think will happen?
MajorPain
10-08-2002, 16:23
I hate it too.
I once zoomed in and then I saw that the routers turned around and defended themself, cuting down my cav.
If I rush my cav front to front with routing enemy almost all the cavs will die. Which is stupid cause the routers should only be concerned about running while my cav is concentrating stabbing the routers.
Re-make the game. That would be the best thing
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STW will always be #1
This does not happen very often...
I have bagged a whole army on a bridge when I sent a unit of Mounted Sergeants behind them. They lost only 15 men, while they captured 250.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
I recall the problem routers killing pursuing troops was much nastier in pre-patch STW. Routing warrior monks would chew up spearmen in their path.
I've noticed the phenomenon in MTW and on balance, it doesn't seem excessive. I forget the exact phrase, but it was a maxim of classical warfare to always leave a bridge for the enemy to flee across. If given an exit, routing men will not fight, but trap them and they may fight ferociously. It's a kind of atavistic "fight or flight" thing.
Crimson Castle
10-08-2002, 16:43
Calvary should not suffer loss if they are pursing routers. But if they are in the path of routers, they should suffer casualties.
But an organized infantry shield unit should not be badly affected. They are less vulnerable than the mounted soldier in such instances.
GilJaysmith
10-08-2002, 16:48
Don't stand in the way of routers.
It's quite true that we're thick, though. It's usually best to make that assumption before waiting for an answer http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Gil ~ CA
There there now, caesar wasn't really waiting for your reply Gil, he was just ventilating his frustration.
The current ratio in pursuing is ok, I belive you have done an adequately approximation of how routers would perform on a battlefield.
I have absolutely no problem with taking some casualties killing routers. Usually it is a cav unit cutting off the routers who takes some losses, and this is as it should be. Some men/horses are going to be lost if faced with a 1.000 man stampede !
If major pain is serious (I can't tell) then he's shown himself to be an idiot. If not then I have... :P
[This message has been edited by Magraev (edited 10-08-2002).]
MajorFreak
10-08-2002, 20:12
i prefer to chase routers from the rear, not headon...though i'll have to beware of flank attacks with cavalry that cause the rout. hmmmmm
Bob the Insane
10-08-2002, 20:31
I had to laugh the other day... I had a couple of less than worthy heir, so sent them on a visiting tour of eastern europeon rebel provinces. They would annoyingly survive there suicidal charges by routing off the field... And in one case the last 2 members of a late period Royal Knight unit routed from a massive group of enemy hvy cavalry in the direction of the enemy lines.. they rode right through a couple of archer units, leaving lines of dead bodies where-ever they touched the other units in their flight...
It was almost a shame to send the 2 of them back the next year... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Standing in the way of a rampaging terrified mob has got to be dangerous. I expect casualties if I take them head on.
It is good to see routing troops change direction as you pursue them. This is a fine improvement over Shogun when fleeing men followed a ONE WAY sign to the rear.
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COGITOERGOVINCO
This is a problem for me as well.
My cavalry, all kinds, will take casualties from pursuing routed foes. Its goddamn annoying, especially when its a freaking armored knight getting killed by fleeing rabble.
olaf
Hakonarson
10-09-2002, 04:35
Oh didums!!
Sheesh guys - I too lose troops to routers, especially if my troops get surrounded (routers to teh front, flanks and rear!!) - what do you expect to happen??
It's a lot less casualties than if you tried to fight them front on, and I'm taking dozens of prisoners per second!!
Sorry but this complaint is mindless twaddle IMO!!
Bob the Insane
10-09-2002, 22:12
Having recently purchased the Stategy Guide, I can add a little to this..
It states that a routing man has -8 penatly to strike an opponent. This tells me that routers do get to attack those in front of them at a penatly.
Also, I suspect that they also recieve their charge bonus while routing... Just a suspicion, but would explain why they are quite effective at killing those who get in their way..
Quote Originally posted by GilJaysmith:
Don't stand in the way of routers.
It's quite true that we're thick, though. It's usually best to make that assumption before waiting for an answer http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Gil ~ CA
[/QUOTE]
This may be because I'm tired, but I couldn't determine whether Gil was being sarcastic or not. Help me out, someone.
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It's getting warm in here...that must be one hell of an INFERNO!
I expect that he's very very sad! After all, I would be, if someone presented me with such a well reasoned & conclusive proof that i was an imbecile! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif
In my experience, questioning someones intelligence is probably the least helpful way of starting a debate!
Routers will kill some of the pursuing force, just because they're running it doesnt mean their arms have fallen off, or they've lost all will to live! This would especially be the case if it looks like someone is cutting off their escape, and/or if the general they're running from has a reputation for killing prisoners!
Their state of blind panic would effect their ability to fight (as it does in the game), but some of those desperately waved spears and swords are gonna find a mark!
It might be irritating, but its not unrealistic, live with it! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif
[This message has been edited by Wart (edited 10-09-2002).]
It is unrealistic for routers to kill armored knights while fleeing in terror from them. IE. My knights are pursuing them, not in front of them, over open ground.
olaf
Yagyu Jubei
10-10-2002, 03:06
I wish that I could take my cav and attack my own miserable cowardly routers!!!!
I know that it happened in history.
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Watashiwa Yagyu Jubei desu! Ganbate!
Hakonarson
10-10-2002, 03:26
Quote Originally posted by olaf:
It is unrealistic for routers to kill armored knights while fleeing in terror from them. IE. My knights are pursuing them, not in front of them, over open ground.
[/QUOTE]
Have a closer look - your knights are not being killed by the troops running away - but occasionally 1 or 2 routers will turn and fight, or your chasers will get caught from behind and stabbed in het back!! The graphics show it and it is not at all unreasonable!!
It is quite realistic and reasonable for this to happen!
Last night I managed to trap a Turkish army on a bridge - Seargents and missile troops at one end cause them to rout, and a unit of Steppe cavalry at the other end was the block.
Oddly enough the routing Turks actually tried to fight their way through the Steppe Cavalry - taking it from 40 to 8 casualties before they burst through en-masse. Even before then a few of them escaped past or through the cavalry and kept on running even if they'd fought to get through.
But in the meantime I captured 3 or 400 and killed a bunch more.
I am perfectly aware of the maxim that you should leave an escape route for the routers to run, but I couldn't resist the concept of trapping the entire army (less 1 balista!) on the bridge - it was fun!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by Hakonarson (edited 10-10-2002).]
Quote Originally posted by olaf:
It is unrealistic for routers to kill armored knights while fleeing in terror from them. IE. My knights are pursuing them, not in front of them, over open ground.
olaf
[/QUOTE]
As Hakonarson said, some of them do turn round and fight, why is that unrealistic? The VAST majority are happy to keep running and get trampled to death, but I don't think it's unreasonable to accept that there will be a few that turn round and fight!
Also remember that although the enemy gets a penalty from routing, your troops get penalties for their level of fatigue. I quite often find that towards the end of a long battle my cav is utterly knackered, and thus not much better at fighting than a router. Just a thought! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Well then perhaps my problem is with the durability of heavy cavalry/knights in general. I still dont think a unit of knights should take losses, except in very rare instances, when pursuing routed, broken and out of formation troops.
olaf
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