View Full Version : style of play / comparison
Some of you have contributed a lot to the forum (Kraxis, Grifman, Rosacrux, to name a few) and I’d like to see you answer to some standard questions, to get a better feeling of the different style of plays, and to see how your styles have been maturing. The comparing of the answers will be interesting, not their 'absolute' truth or value.
1- Units you discovered and that you have learnt to appreciate/better use over time
2- Units you used originally but dropped as your style developed
3- Your preferred defensive tactic (positioning, unit mix)
4- Same for offensive
5- Nasty surprises : the battles you lost after thinking you'd win them easily and why
6- Miracles (the reverse)
7- Your cardinal rule : aspects /points of your play you keep in mind from campaign to campaign
8- Your key to enjoying yourself
9- The 2 Most important things you’d like to see patched (let’s keep it at 2 please)
10- Worst disappointment
Feel free to answer only to some
cheers
I’ll go first, of course
1- horse archers. I was very disappointed at first, as missile damage seemed particularly weak, as they were in turn very vulnerable to missiles, and that their only obvious role was to charge routing units. It then seemed that light cavalry would be a better bet, as they could do that and much more. Even worst I once had a micro-battle between a HA and a feudal sergeant : piece of cake I thought, they can’t touch me, but the HA routed after 3 trips around the map (having killed a whooping 5 in 30 minutes – I realised later I had in fact micro managed it too much). This disdain then spread to other similar units, as Biz cav. (no missile punch, too expansive for medium cav.). I realised quite later that I was under using them. : a much smarter way is to put them on the fringe of the main fight, wait a bit and then position them close to the flanks of enemy units engaging. The penalties for receiving missile plus having a unit in your flank, even not actually engaged, are very significant, and often enough to force a rout. Their skirmish ability also mean they are reasonably safe on their own (up to a point only)
2 – Heavy cavalry, all types. Satisfying to look at but not the battle clincher I expected, too expansive and many cheap counter units, from spear to camel. This has been much talked about. I don’t particularly have an opinion (whether it’s historical or not to see them so easily countered) but in the interest of game balance it would make sense to either limit the power of counters, or make them more effective (morale shattering wise / that could go with an increase of their maintenance cost)
3 – Not very original, half missile / or catapults, half spear, in half-circle on the very edge of the map, waiting for the enemy general to show up. Once he’s down, they dance in front of your missiles and almost threaten.
4 – a third missile and spears (they do the holding part), the rest offensive units (either mounted or not) for double flank attack. The holding part gets in front of the enemy, in missile range (missiles behind infantry), the two arms attack right and left
5- In Norway, a few Vikings in the woods, that I outnumbered 2:1 with a well balanced force. It was a grey, rainy day, and at the end of the battle they drunk their honey beers in my men skulls. Why : better general, strong unexpected charge that caught me flat footed in the middle of my preparation.
6 – the first time I killed a general, in a seemingly desperate defensive battle where I was badly outnumbered. It felt very good then, but as I did that about 345 times now, I’d like enemy generals to be less suicidal.
7- I have a strong phobia of revolts and will always keep the same setting for all my provinces : one priest and two spies, border tower, church, 20% agriculture, the governor in the fort with another 100 unit. I never had revolts, except for the pope in Rome of course. Then again, I don’t go for total domination and apparently it happens in the end game then.
8- I now find specific home rules for each of my campaigns. It’s normally GA and experts anyway, I never go for total conquest and limit myself to a ‘sphere of influence’, with a specific underlying theme. For the Italians, it was trade and spies, for the Spaniards it’s religion (I only attack through crusades, don’t use spies offensively but many inquisitors), for the poles it was heavy on cavalry and stay in the east, etc. For each faction, I take a maximum amount of their specific units (for the flavour).
9- for battles : well protected enemy generals, plus more direct attacks (they do a lot of thinking in front of my arbalesters, when a simple charge would put me on the back foot).
For strategic : less building destruction when you enter a province, at least for the AI (they send each other to the stone age, undermining their ability to be a challenge to you)
10 – Siege. They look great and are actually much fun, but I never do any : I don’t have to. I wait for them to starve or autoresolve (even without siege weapons, my losses are minimal). Plus the diplomatic aspect, huge improvement from Shogun, but still a big margin to exploit all the potential.
de la Valette
10-09-2002, 20:31
No expert but these are my answers
1- Units you discovered and that you have learnt to appreciate/better use over time
Naptha throwers. The AI always seemed to make good use of these and i just couldn't get my head round them. Now i find having one or two firing from the flanks can be a real battle decider on the defensive
2- Units you used originally but dropped as your style developed
Longbowmen/archers. Apart from x-bows (arbs being the best) i stay well clear of missile troops as they just don't cut the mustard. Much better to have a couple of siege engines and some more HtH units
3- Your preferred defensive tactic (positioning, unit mix)
As high as possible, two catapults at the back with two/three sets of xbows in front. Four units of the best spears i have in a line in front. four-six "shock" infantry (MAA etc) on the flanks, with a couple of spear units to stop any cav breaking in from the side (kind of a square u if that makes sense!)
4- Same for offensive
Three lines for ease of movement (spearmen, shock, shock) engage with the spears then throw the rest on one flank/ through the middle. A few cav on the other flank to pick up the pieces/attack the other flank.
5- Nasty surprises : the battles you lost after thinking you'd win them easily and why
Bridge battle, equal numbers me defending. Took out 1/2 the attackers then chased down the routers. Lucky shot from a catapult took out my king (who was leading the charge) he routed back across the bridge taking the rest of the army with him!
6- Miracles (the reverse)
450 men defending against 2500 Turks. First catapult shot killed the turkish sultan, the rest of the army routed after a few arrows hit them. My loses 3, his 125. Funny thing was the turks had no heirs so became rebels. Next turn bribed the 2375 remaining troops http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
7- Your cardinal rule : aspects /points of your play you keep in mind from campaign to campaign
Always a strong defence first then expand with attacking armies. Always get trade routes set up ASAP. Maintain loyality at all costs (have only faced a handful of revolts in 4 campaigns)
8- Your key to enjoying yourself
Big bloody battles that turn into slogging matches. Sometimes sending 700 peasents with a good commander against trained infantry just to watch them fight to the death http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
9- The 2 Most important things you’d like to see patched (let’s keep it at 2 please)
AI using trade routes.
Siege times
10- Worst disappointment
Not having real time naval battles
1) Hobilars. Absolutely fantastic for the first 75 - 100 years of the game. I used to use them for chasing down fleeing enemies, but now I send them right around the rear of the enemy, who either has to get hit in the rear or readjust formation to cope with them (allowing me to hit other vulnerable points)
2) Chivalric Sergeants. Give me Billmen every time over these!
3) Preferred defence? Hmm...take one hill, 4 longbowmen, 6 lots of spears (any variety) 4 MAA and 2 hobilars. Use the hobilars to hit the rear (or take out any siege equipment), use the spears to soak up a frontal attack and flank with the MAA. Longbowmen should have whittled down the numbers before the real fighting starts.
4) Lots of shock troops and fast cavalry. Longbowmen are also a must. get the longbowmen in range and keep firing. Either you'll decimate the opposition, or they'll come for you, which leaves an oppurtunity for flanking. NEVER attack up a hill if you can possibly avoid it.
5) I lost a battle when it was 800 vs 800. The reason was that valour 2 spearmen (of which the computer had many) kick the ass of Feudal Sergeants with valour 0.
6) I won a battle 400 vs 1600. I was defending a bridge. One unit of Order Foot Soldiers killed over 300 troops on their own...and also held the rest of their army up, allowing my archers to work.
7) Cardinal rule: NEVER, EVER LET A PROVINCE GO BELOW 120 LOYALTY! Even if you have to garrison 1000 troops there, keep its loyalty above 120.
8) Crushing the computer on Expert, and only auto resolve if I outnumber the computer 2 to 1.
9) 2 things I want patched: AI not rebuilding after getting invaded and losing all their decent buildings, and Crusades not pathfinding correctly.
10) No MP campaign :-(
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It's getting warm in here...that must be one hell of an INFERNO!
[This message has been edited by Inferno (edited 10-09-2002).]
Swoosh So
10-09-2002, 23:01
Ill answer 1
3) defencive 4 arbalisters and you cant lose even 4-1 (untill the ammo runs out of course)
Erithtotl
10-10-2002, 00:29
I haven't done multiplayer, but I'm pretty darn good at the single player game:
1- Units you discovered and that you have learnt to appreciate/better use over time
Muslim Infantry / Archer combos: I scoffed at these first, I figured I'd much rather have specialist units that were better at both. But I find units like the Ottoman infantry really useful because of their flexibility.
2- Units you used originally but dropped as your style developed
Men at Arms - They seem like they should be bad-ass, but their high upkeep makes them cost-ineffective.
3- Your preferred defensive tactic (positioning, unit mix)
On a hill, hedgehogged typically. I keep cavalry on the flanks but use them primarily to run down routers. I usually try and engage one or two of his units with one of mine, and then roll another unit onto his flank (nothing revolutionary here).
Another strategy, when playing in a flat province, throw all your units in the woods, especially when you lack archers. Make them come to you. Usually bloody, but effective.
4- Same for offensive
Always attack grossly outnumbering your opponent http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif Usually like a good number of missle units. Go with the 3 line attack formation, the enemy will often come out to attack your archers, at which point you of course march up your spearmen. The real key on offense in my experience is to get the opponent to go on the offensive, thus transfering the advantages to you. The AI is sadly far too willing to go along with this.
5- Nasty surprises : the battles you lost after thinking you'd win them easily and why
Attacked Scotland with about 600 men, mostly militia, spearmen, peasants and a unit of archers. Against 240 clansmen and 60 archers. Generals about even.
Forced to attack up hill, attempeted to surround the clansmen. Battle was about even and then the AI charged my flank with his ARCHERS. The suprise attack soon forced my men into a rout.
6- Miracles (the reverse)
I don't even know if you can call them miracles, since this almost always happens when the AI is dumb. On a bridge defense, I had one unit of Saracen infantry backed by several units of Arbalesters hold off 8 units of Mongol Heavy Cavalry + More Mongol Horse Archers with minimal casualties. I think one unit of Arbalests had over 300 kills.
7- Your cardinal rule : aspects /points of your play you keep in mind from campaign to campaign
Build up sea trade immediately. Build up substantial garrisons of low-cost troops like Militia. Maintainance cost is always more important than purchase cost. Drop borderforts everywhere. Capture neutral/rebel provinces quickly, go for ones with large numbers of trade goods. Use strategic attacks to reduce your number of borders to a minimum. Pick a few territories and build them up while keeping others to a minimum.
8- Your key to enjoying yourself
A challenging AI. Which sadly I've become more and more depressed by. I'm putting the game aside until the patch.
9- The 2 Most important things you’d like to see patched (let’s keep it at 2 please)
Poor Tactical AI: Overcommitting generals, lack of aggressiveness on offense (especially with numbers), and lack of willingness to hang onto a good defensive position. Also, ignoring second bridge when attacking over a river!
Illogical Strategic AI: Attacking Militarily suprior ALLIES, refusing treaties/ceasefires when vastly outnumbered. Ignoring poorly defended and/or critical rebel/neutral provinces (I have yet to see Denmark take Sweden!).
10- Worst disappointment
No online campaign. Yes, I know, its really hard to do, but I'm still disappointed.
Hosakawa Tito
10-10-2002, 01:17
1) I never appreciated the arbalest till I tried them in my first campaign after I got steamrolled in Armenia by the Byzantine Kataphraktoi. My regular archers either overshot them, or their arrows couldn't penetrate the heavy armor.
2) The ballista unit just doesn't get the job done. If they hit anything at all,a big if, they only kill one man at a time. Except for providing support during a seige they are useless to me.
3) My preferred defensive tactic, terrain permitting, is the classic L shaped ambush from behind a hill or woods with cav and melee units providing the hammer, spear and missile units being the anvil.
4) I like my missile units out front supported by spears, cav and melee units on the wings, the basic setup.
5) Finding out that 3 units of Kataphraktoi cav supported by 1 unit of urban militia, 1 archer unit, and 2 peasant units could kick my @ss. Even though I held the high ground with 3 archer units, 3 urban militia, 4 peasants, and a unit of vikings. My arrows hardly affected the Kats and they just chewed up and spit out my punk infantry in a frontal assault up a virtual mountain side no less. It wasn't even close.
6) My biggest miracle to date came in my current campaign as the English against the Golden Horde. I held Armenia after an earlier Crusade when the Golden Horde came knocking on my door a few years after my conquest. My 700 hundred against 3900 Mongol heavy cav,Mongol horse archers, Mongol foot soldiers. All I wanted to do was slow them down to give myself time to reenforce my other possessions in the area, namely Antioch and Tripoli. I planned on sacrificing these 700 and killing as many Mongols as I could. I used up all my arrows, lost what little cav I had, routed the first attackers and killed their general, and they just kept coming wave after wave after wave.
I was reduced to fighting in the woods even using my archer units in melee, nobody was getting withdrawn in this battle, not against these odds. I chased Mongol horsearchers around the map with infantry that became so exhausted that I couldn't believe they didn't rout. To my surprise I won that 1 1/2 hour battle. I had about 150 men left, killed almost 1300 Mongols and the Mongols that routed had no where to rout to, so they just disappeared. Absolutely an amazing and unexpected victory. Needless to say my victorious general, up until then an unremarkable 2 star crossbow horsearcher unit, recieved one of my daughters as wife and the title Constable of the Tower from a very grateful King.
7) I like to get my assassins and spies up and running asap. Put assassins in all my port provinces and leave them there, they start catching enemy agents all on their own without risking them trailing after targets. I like using spies in groups of 10 or so to "light brush fires" in my opponents key provinces, especially when he is building up forces on my border to attack me. Keeps him busy at home that way. He blockades my trade routes, I'm going to wreck his economy too.
8) I like to experiment with ideas from other players who post on this forum, lots of good stuff here, playing the same way all the time gets boring. I think playing different styles with different factions keeps the game fresh and interesting.
9) In the patch I would like to see:
a) The diplomacy side could be tweaked so that the AI will eventually accept offers of ceasefire after you have beaten them down and wrecked their economy along with your own. I've been trying to do just that by using my spies to foment rebellions on my opponents, but they don't seem to be interested in self preservation.
b) I'd like to see naval superiority be the deciding factor in blockades, with the smaller force able to only stop a percentage of trade/ troop movements. Also you should be able to make money on trade goods from trading with your own ports too, not just from trade with other factions.
10) I can't think of any big disappointments in SP, but from what I've read on this forum multiplayer is really screwed up. That is a darn shame because a portion of this community's supporters only enjoys playing online and they are missing in action right now. I hope this gets addressed to their satisfaction in the up coming patch.
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Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so that they look forward to making the trip.
deejayvee
10-10-2002, 09:03
1. Longbows - at first I couldn't get them to kill enough, but now I know you need at least 4 units of them.
2. Heavy Cavalry - they should be great, but now cavalry of any sort is now used to chase down routers only.
3. Same as everyone else basically - line of spear/pike men (preferably billmen, halberdiers or swiss pikemen); Sword units on either side (prefer Chiv MAA or dismounted Chiv knights); longbowmen behind the spears; cavalry behind ready to run down fleeing units, or in a tough spot used for flanking. I just sit on top of a hill and move my troops as little as possible. Especially because the AI will come up near me and start moving around soaking up longbow arrows until it decides it has to attack (or run away).
4. Similar army and set up, but I walk the front line to just in front of their line and stop and start firing longbows into them until they decide to attack me. If they're on top of a hill I'll try to come from the side giving me a roughly equal height and forcing him to rearrange his formation.
1. Javellin throwers (Jinettes, Kerns, Murabitin Inf). I use them for both defense and offense.
2. Swiss Pikemen, Swiss Armour Pikemen. I won't be able train them after the patch. Overall, I use less spear (4 max).
3. Three phase rigid defense. Defense a good spot (corner, edge, hill,...). 3 front units using Murabintin or Kerns or Passive Arb in hold position, hold fornation. 2 missiles using Arb or Xbow or Foot Archer hold position, hold formation. 1-2 spears on each side. 4 shock/H2H back and 2 Cav. Reserve: shock/H2H and Cav.
- Phase one: camp skirmishing. Kill as much as I can with skirmisher. Bring in H2H reinforcement if available.
- Phase two: rush when enemy start to rout or waver.
- Phase three: camp at the other side and wait for the enemy reinforcement.[/list]
4. Vary depending on the troops composition of the enemy. However, there is no missile troops other than javellins throwers. Also, use cannons if available.
- Bombard: if cannons are available. I use 4-6 serpentines/demi-culv/culv.
- Organize: rearrange troop into a balance defensive formation and approach the enemy position. When I see the enemy formation, I will rearrange units into offensive formation I need.
- Attack: depending on the enemy formation and troops composition, I use a different tactics. Most common:
a) Rush one flank with spear - Assault the front with H2H - rush the other flank, which most likely become rear now, with Cav.
b) Attack both flanks (or edge of enemy line) using spear or mix of spear and H2H - Assault the front with a couple of shock troops - Rush the rear with Cav.[/list]
5. Four of my Chiv Sergeants routed by enemy Cav and caused a massive rout. The only defeat I had (other defeats were intentional when I want to get rid of a bad King or Prince).
6. 20 Ghulam Royal Guard lead by a Good Runner Prince rout a depleted French Crusade with over 200 men. Lost only 6 men. The same 14 Ghulam Royal Guard fight over 400 French. Kill over 100 men before the last Ghulam die.
7. Slow but steady.
8. Never play the same way as the last campaign.
9. Better AI both on trategic and tactic.
10. Some 100 units to play with but somehow the tactical combat isn't as attractive as STW. May be balancing issues.
[This message has been edited by pdoan8 (edited 10-10-2002).]
deejayvee
10-10-2002, 09:05
1. Longbows - at first I couldn't get them to kill enough, but now I know you need at least 4 units of them.
2. Heavy Cavalry - they should be great, but now cavalry of any sort is now used to chase down routers only.
3. Same as everyone else basically - line of spear/pike men (preferably billmen, halberdiers or swiss pikemen); Sword units on either side (prefer Chiv MAA or dismounted Chiv knights); longbowmen behind the spears; cavalry behind ready to run down fleeing units, or in a tough spot used for flanking. I just sit on top of a hill and move my troops as little as possible. Especially because the AI will come up near me and start moving around soaking up longbow arrows until it decides it has to attack (or run away).
4. Similar army and set up, but I walk the front line to just in front of their line and stop and start firing longbows into them until they decide to attack me. If they're on top of a hill I'll try to come from the side giving me a roughly equal height and forcing him to rearrange his formation.
deejayvee
10-10-2002, 09:33
Oops, I was having problems seeing my post come up and I seem to have triple posted.
[This message has been edited by deejayvee (edited 10-10-2002).]
Quote Originally posted by maroule:[/QUOTE]
Just a couple of qualifications:
One, hehehe, just because I post alot doesn't mean I'm any good http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Two, I only play SP, don't care much for MP myself.
With that said . . .
1- Units you discovered and that you have learnt to appreciate/better use over time
Artillery in defensive battles. Never used them until a little while back. Man, they rock. Defeated 3,500 Elmos with 1,200 Byzantines and lost only 8(!) men using 4 catapults. Now I build defensive armies using 2-4 of them. I can hold off massive armies defending with much smaller armies - this frees up other troops for offensive purposes.
2- Units you used originally but dropped as your style developed
Really depends on the factions so much. But I haven't been as pleased with longbows as I thought I would - but maybe I'm not using enough of them. I usually only have 4-6 of them and those that seem to swear by them say you need 8 or so. I haven't dropped them, but I am using more arbalesters in combo with them.
3- Your preferred defensive tactic (positioning, unit mix)
Byzantines
4 Byzantine infantry
2 Varangian Guards
4 catapults
2 Arbelasters
4 Byzantine Cavalry
2 Kataphracts
Arrange in horseshoe formation on crest of hill around the catapults. With arbelests in front of cats but behind infantry, Byzant cav on flanks but still behind infantry, Kats in rear. Enemy will try to move around and find non-existent flank. While they do this, they will be hammered by cats, arbalests, and Byz cavalry. Most of time, they never even close with my infantry. Just have to be careful to save enough missile ammo for all the waves that will come. It's good to have some another stack of 4 more missile units in the province for reserves. Byz cav work good as light cav in pursuing routers and their horsearchers too.
English
4-6 billmen
2 longbows
2 arbelasters
2 hobilars
2 royal knights
2 gallowglasses
2 catapults
Use horseshoe formation on hilltop and just let them come to you, usually a bit more melee as you don't have the Byz archers to add to the missile attacks. I don't counterattack until final wave unless my hobilars have some easy pickings - don't want to get caught flatfooted by reserves.
Addendum: A lot though depends on who you are fighting. Might substitute more hobilars or steppe cavalry when fighting Muslims and their horsearchers, substitute chiv or royal knights or Kats/Pro A if fighting heavy horse western armies.
4- Same for offensive
Byzantines
Substitute Trebizond archers for cats, substitute Pronia Alegoni for 2 Byz cavalry.
Outmanuever them off of any hills, open fire with archers, win that duel (or if they have too many archers charge them with your cav), charge infantry and look for open flanks with cav. Varangians and Byz heavy cav rock with their high command rating generals. Nothing fancy.
English
Substitute longbows for cats, substitute 2 clansmen/gallowglasses for 2 billmen.
Bait them into attacking you with longbowmen - you will win missile duel and they just can't stand there. Billmen hold middle, clansmen/gallowglasses look for flanking openings along with cavalry. Again, alot depends upon how the AI reacts, their mix of forces.
5- Nasty surprises : the battles you lost after thinking you'd win them easily and why
Well, I don't think I've lost any I thought would win easily, but I will describe one loss . . . fighting the Spanish as the English, even sized armies, we went face to face, the terrain was constricted due to a town in the middle, woods on either flank. Very hard even to manuever due to the town between us. No room for any thing of tactical flair, just head to head battle and I got beat. His knights beat mine in head to head cav battle, and I was lost after that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
6- Miracles (the reverse)
Got fooled by the French, the baguette eating dogs - an attack I wasn't prepared for. Caught me with 3 longbows, 3 units of jinettes, a unit of peasants (and I NEVER use peasants - which tells you how flatfooted I got caught), 1 of clansmen, and 3 or so spearmen. The Frogs had royal knights, urban militia, spearmen, and archers - and they outnumbered me 2 to 1.
My jinettes did a good job of disrupting them with their javelins as they advanced, but one unit got sort of chewed up. I let them get in archer range, and the longbows opened up, causing some more enemy problems. Knowing the only thing peasants could do decently was charge, I charged them at the nearest enemy unit, while my spearmen held firm against his urban militia and the charge of his royal knights. It was an even battle but his reinforcements were coming up.
So I did three things. One, I sent my jinettes behind his lines after his archers. Anything to route some of his units, hoping to lower his morale. Secondly, I charged my clansmen at his royal knights - they were my only good offensive unit and I had to take the pressure off of my spearmen who I thought were going to break. Lastly, some gaps developed in my lines, everything was on edge as to who would break first, so in desperation, I charged my longbowmen, one after another into the gaps onto the flanks of some of his units attacking my spears.
That did it, his king routed, his urban militia routed and my jinettes after routing his archers had fun chasing the routers. I had lost half my force, but so had he and his army was bigger than mine. It was one of my first battles early in the game and one I am still proud of.
7- Your cardinal rule : aspects /points of your play you keep in mind from campaign to campaign
Don't expand too fast - you've got 350 years!
Specialize your provinces - you can't build everything everywhere. For military units use provinces with specific valor bonuses and crappy economic provinces - you can focus on military and not spend money on poorly returning economic investments. And have good economic provinces specialize in agric, mines, trade first, then military stuff. Prioritize!
Get a trade fleet up and running ASAP. Money will start rolling in.
Watch your generals, match up good fighter with your armies - and use them enough to keep them from getting vices, but spread the work around to all of your good generals to keep them fresh.
Byzantines - bribe Khazaria for steppe cavalry!
Byzantines - blitz and take Rum ASAP with one army of your units and another stack of mercs. Turkish production will be almost stopped and you have won the war with them.
English - bribe Wales for longbowmen!
English - forget about your French provinces - take Flanders - it's great for trade and protects England from attack.
English - take Sweden ASAP - great trade and iron
8- Your key to enjoying yourself
Roleplay, don't try to game the system, don't exploit the AI (too much http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ), play it for fun
9- The 2 Most important things you’d like to see patched (let’s keep it at 2 please)
Correct valor upgrades for structures
Stack strategic agents
10- Worst disappointment
I wish the diplomacy was more robust:
Able to demand tribute or provinces or units
Able to aid allies in conquest or defense other than by luck.
Able to make an enemy be your vassal - break treaties with others, no trade with them, etc.
Grifman
thx to you all guys for taking the time to answer...
I especially like the fact that most of us 'discovered' how to better use some units as our style matured : it shows the game has real depth and replay value.
1. Units you discovered and that you have learnt to appreciate/better use over time
Irish gallowglasses and Highland clansmen. They can be excellent attacking troops if using properly. With armor upgrades and a high level general they do miracles. They are very effective units and cost cheap and maintain.
2- Units you used originally but dropped as your style developed
Crossbowmen - I never use them. And I've been dissapointed by catapults.
3- Your preferred defensive tactic (positioning, unit mix)
Usual hill tactics. When you're heavily outnumbered and have few missile units just place all your units in woods (square formation) and enjoy an enemies' agony http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
4- Same for offensive
Typical attacking army: 2-3 units of cavalry, 4-5 shock troops (MAA, irish, scottish, mercs), 3-5 spear units and 2-3 missile units (best - arbalesters). Usual outflanking tactics.
5- Nasty surprises : the battles you lost after thinking you'd win them easily and why
Once I was defending from Novgorod. I had a lot of good middle infantry. Novgorogs had a number of urban militia. I thought it would be easy to win, but my troops ran off quickly because of very high dread level of enemy general.
6- Miracles (the reverse)
I (2800) was attacking the egyptian army (4000 with a sultan). Egyptian sultan ran away w/out a melee http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif(
7- Your cardinal rule : aspects /points of your play you keep in mind from campaign to campaign
Money and v/v of my king and heirs.
8- Your key to enjoying yourself
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif kill ratio: 10 dead enemies against 1 of mine
9 - The 2 Most important things you’d like to see patched (let’s keep it at 2 please)
AI's behaviour
10- Worst disappointment
Civil war with no reason
Rosacrux
10-10-2002, 14:48
Feeling honoured by the mentioning of my name (even though I am only a mediocre player and never tested and tried online) I just have to take some time to reply (even though today my arse is burning – a local expression we use when we have much to do, particularly at work, where I am now)
1-Units you discovered and that you have learnt to appreciate/better use over time
Light cavalry. At first, I thought they were good only for chasing routers. Then I discovered the wonderful Steppe cavalry, and the Jinnetes (light cav-misille combo) and I feel like using those all the time. Hobilars are awesome too.
2- Units you used originally but dropped as your style developed
Heavy cav of all kinds, especially Katapractoi (I love playing Byzantines). Considering the size of the unit and the many heirs the Byz. Emperor gets, Kataphraktoi were the mainstay of my early Byzantine army. Well, that was wrong. They are good, but only for certain missions, and as a good jack-of-all-trades unit – and them byz got a better unit in the latter role: The Byz. Cavalry.
3- Your preferred defensive tactic (positioning, unit mix)
On a hilltop (of course) with lots of archers… but it’s unoriginal, so I’ll go for my desert storm ™ defence: No hills (even sandhills http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif ) or woods available. Curve an extensive line with my spear units or (if Byz) with my byz. Infantry. Position archers behind the line. In the gaps fill in some MAA or (if Byz) varangian guard. At the flanks light cavalry and a unit or two of heavy cavalry. The mix: 4-6 spear (or byz. Inf) units, 4-6 missile units, 2-4 sword (or Varangian) units, the rest light cav, save 1 or 2 spots for heavy cav.
Usually the AI tries to outmaneuvre you and hit you with a concentration of forces in one side, and minimal mobile forces on the other. I just redirect the central infantry units to hold the “local flanks” (ie face the enemy concentration) and then bring up the sword/axe units to their rear. All this while my archers pepper them with (you found it) arrows, and my light cav takes out their archers and/or artillery. I direct my heavy cav to flank any point where my forces are struggling, and even use light cav for the same purpose.
4- Same for offensive
Manoeuvre mobile attack: Love it when they stand on a hilltop, I manoeuvre my forces around them, they go behind to another hilltop and when I repeat my move, they either ran (pretty fast too http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif ) or attack, only to be smashed.
When horse archers are available (especially them lovely byz. Cav.) I use them to lure the enemy towards my lines, while I have formed my regular Big Bad MF Line ™ to hold them off.
5- Nasty surprises : the battles you lost after thinking you'd win them easily and why
Bloody Irish. Hit them with 600+ good troops, but they lured me into the woods, cut my men to pieces and routed my bloody king. I was Brits, btw.
6- Miracles (the reverse)
450 men defence against a horde of ravaging Turks, about 1800. On a hilltop. Decimated their ranks with treb archers and bul. Brigands, while my byz and Italian inf (yeah, half of my men where mercs) were holding them. Killed their general with missile fire and then they started running and never stopped until they hit Turkmenistan http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
7- Your cardinal rule : aspects /points of your play you keep in mind from campaign to campaign
This ought to be right: Build up your trade. Money is everything, when you don't go for a quick mop-up, so you have to have them ships. Many and in every darn sea lane available. Trade buildings=essential. Let the cash flow!
8- Your key to enjoying yourself
Fun, fun, fun. Have fun. Don’t use AI exploits (not after the first time you beat the game, at least) impose your own roles upon yourself, roleplay, recreate history and enjoy the strategical aspect of the game. Did I mentioned having fun?
And this: Try not to repeat myself (except playing over and over the byz. Campaigns – never thought there were so many ways to smash them Turks http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif )
9- The 2 Most important things you’d like to see patched (let’s keep it at 2 please)
- Correct valour addition by buildings
- Sorted lists, more strategical options, more diplomacy
10- Worst disappointment
Not enough diplomatic and empire building options. Other than that, the game rocks.
[This message has been edited by Rosacrux (edited 10-10-2002).]
Interesting topic & well questions, I would like to share something
1- Units you discovered and that you have learnt to appreciate/better use over time
Horse Archers, although I get them early in the game I think that I've wasted so many of them in the beginning. They are great at flanks, fast and downsizes the enemy morale in lost of ways. Their speed and capability of "quick rout/rally" makes them deadly.
2- Units you used originally but dropped as your style developed
Heavy Jan. Inf., seem fantastic at the first look but they are much more expensive to be the core unit of any army. Rather they must be used for specific battles in low numbers (they just bankrupted me like they do to Ottoman's in history http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )
3- Your preferred defensive tactic (positioning, unit mix)
Tactics are not much fantastic than others. But my Ottoman Inf. & Futtuwas give hard time to attacker not just w their bow. I don't just had do withdraw them when they finished their ammo unless their quality is comparable w the attackers infantry (so give me lots of alternatives).
4- Same for offensive
Use mounted skirmishers (I use lots of them)to gain elevation adv. or make the defender disturbed and attack earlier.
5- Nasty surprises : the battles you lost after thinking you'd win them easily and why
Worst one was Egyptian's backstap (what an ally). I lost Syria. Their army was 3 times crowded. I tried hard, my bowmen knock lots of them down. I could win if I had 2 shock troops but...well they kicked me...
6- Miracles (the reverse)
I've stopped a Crusade (1.5K+ men) with 350 men and a heir. It was the second crusade (they waited for years and sent one just after the other http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif)...it was amazing...terrain helped much though...80 of my men survived.
7- Your cardinal rule : aspects /points of your play you keep in mind from campaign to campaign
Move slow to forward but be sure about your back (...yeap...step 5 teach me a good rule)
8- Your key to enjoying yourself
Never cheat, if spies or x or y makes me win easilly then never exaggerate their uses.
9- The 2 Most important things you’d like to see patched (let’s keep it at 2 please)
-please these Commanders can't be so dumb to die in the first 2 minutes (not only the "charge issue" also they must be clever to stand out of siege weapons range)
-the buildings can have a longer life or at least re-build effectively by AI
10- Worst disappointment
I imagined more diplomacy.
------------------
So said the King
So it is written
May I? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
1- Units you discovered and that you have learnt to appreciate/better use over time
All kinds of skirmishers. I usually play on raw melee power in all my games (strategy, rpg, etc.), so finding a useful way to apply skirmishing tactics was really refreshing. Mastering the use of units such as Jinettes Turcoman horses, and desert archers was great.
2- Units you used originally but dropped as your style developed
MAA. I just don't make them any more. I use heavy infantry in muslim armies, such as janissaries, or even ghazi, but in catholic armies I find the MAA to be superfluous.
3- Your preferred defensive tactic (positioning, unit mix)
Closed formations, missiles behind the spear wall, sometimes even spears on flanks to form a semicircle. If my misslies still have ammo left, I won't retaliate if I don't have to. I prefer to have mostly missiles and spears, with often not more than two cavalry units, so that everything is tightly packed on a nice defensive position (cavalry takes up a lot of space).
4- Same for offensive
One-flank charges. I charge one flank of the enemy using mostly cavalry and fast infantry to have the whole enemy army wheel to counter this, so my main force in essence hits their flank. Works wonders when successful, and is also risky at times, which in turn can provide a more interesting battle. I tend not to take any non-mounted missile units when attacking.
5- Nasty surprises : the battles you lost after thinking you'd win them easily and why
French king with 300-something men vs. my 1000. He was a five star, legendary leader, chivalrous, and a mighty warrior. I had a decent, mostly mercenary army, and I knew it's not going to be easy, but still didn't expect to be utterly defeated. He actually charged me, even though he was defending, and caught my army in a downhill position. I had a 4 star general, order foot, Italians, longbows, templars, kwarazmiams, etc., and he had mounted sergeants, templars, order foot and urban militia, and yet only about 200 of my men managed to escape that battle.
6- Miracles (the reverse)
Attacking and defeating a huge advanced Sicilian army (I always seem to get this extra strong Sicilians in my games) with an army comprised mostly of the Turcoman horses. One of the best manouvered battles I have ever fought.
7- Your cardinal rule : aspects /points of your play you keep in mind from campaign to campaign
I don't attack or conquer until I can produce the units that I want. This doesn't necessarily means that they are the most advanced ones or the most effective ones, but the ones that I am interested in experimenting/playing with. I start the war only when I'm satisfied with my armies. the ai also has the time to devlop this way, providing more challenge once I decide to advance.
8- Your key to enjoying yourself
Taking advantage of the diversty of factions and units and experimenting a lot. Also, the most enjoyable moments were the ones when I was careless and got caught in a difficult situation, and had to get myself out of it. Not many of those, since I'm not doing it on purpose, but still fun.
9- The 2 Most important things you’d like to see patched (let’s keep it at 2 please)
a) More incentive to assault castles. One of the best aspects of the game is currently probably the most unused one. To have the destruction of the buildings happen only after the castle has fallen, and to have an attrition for besieging armies (and the ai that takes that into account) would be great.
b) If the ai is an attacker, then it should attack me, not parade in front of my formation. The same goes for indecisive behaviour/called off attacks on the strat map.
10- Worst disappointment
*sigh* Underdeveloped diplomacy
ok I will answer a few of those !
1: light cav/horse archers. found them great for diversionary and skirmishing behind the enemy . probably have become of more use since my own skirmishing/flanking tactics have become better.
2: havent used a lot of expensive foot as i found spear types more useful overall
3 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gifrobably the same as most semi circular line of bows/crossbows or arb's up right in front of my spear troops with a couple flanking MAA types and cav both heavy and light if possible. i usualy end up with 4 to 6 units of bow types ( im including arbs in that category if i have em) with at least 4 units of spear.. (i like the italian lights right now ) with 1 unit of some kind of melee type unit or so on each end finally with my cav out wide. i like to use my horse arches or light cav if possible to skirt around/behind the enemy lines to kill their assualt weapons (cats etc)
4: almost the same..just differs in the way i use them a bit during the battle. but very similar since usually the enemy is baited into attacking me anyway
5: havent had really any nasty surprises.. most of them i already knew i was in trouble !! although one kinda fits into both categories it ended up a miracle
6: relating to the above. i had an army in the crimea that ahd been taking a beating from the horde over about 2 or 3 years and i had been trying to get it built back up but had failed to do so yet. i thought the horde was dead so i relaxed a bit when the damn frogs decided they wanted crimea for themselves. anywa i had a ragtag of about 450 men left. i unit of almsot full strength italian light. and the remainder disjointed and depleted longbows arbs and crossbows with a few alan cav, italians were about 118 strong .so the most full unit. so the french come in with 200 men..im like..cool..i can handle that ! well..when the battle starts its 200 royal cav! thats it 200 royal cav w/ the french king! well..the battle didnt go so well but i wrapped the kings unit with my italian lights and tried my best to keep rallying my other troops that kept routing. i ended up killing their king and they then started to route ! whew.
7: trade trade trade early early early ! youll need the cash later in the game!
8: i try to look past most of the gameplay issues i have and just enjoy the game the way it is ! immerse myself in its world with its good points and its bad ..suspend disbelief and just play!
9: sorting/stacking of strat units and sorting of generals etc. and a way to tell easily in battle what units have princes/generals
10: sieges. they could be so cool but most of the time its not worth actually doing the assault yourself
[This message has been edited by iankei (edited 10-11-2002).]
[This message has been edited by iankei (edited 10-11-2002).]
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