Shogun:TW Campain and Battle Hints and Tips

[Secret User]

As STW is one of the hardest TW games with many users (aswell as myself) having difficulties both on and off the battlefield. What is a good faction to play as first? What units do I recruit early on? What buildings do I construct? Do I Turtle or Blitz? :dizzy2:

Help will be greatly appreciated. :help:

[Gregoshi]

Welcome to the Org Secret. ~:wave:

I'm sure others will have some better words of wisdom, but I think Shimazu (green) is a good clan to start with. They start out at the southern end of Japan (left side of campaign map) and only have one direction in which to fight. Japan is narrower there so your fighting front is narrow too. Hojo (purple) and Uesugi (dark blue) at the other end are richer but Japan is wider there so there is more to clans to worry about and more directions in which to attack or defend.

Regarding units, a good place to start is your bread and butter units, the yari samurai and samurai archers. For more details on all the units, checkout frogbeastegg's excellent The Complete Total War Unit Guide (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31444)

There is also a sticky in this forum that discusses your very question: Best Scenario/Faction for Newbie? (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=75230). I see I said basically the same thing in that thread as I did above. Note Noir's post #21 - an excellent breakdown of the STW map by section.

Good luck with whatever clan you start with. :2thumbsup:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Uesugi and Shimazu are good. Recruit samurai archers and yari samurai early. Construct gold mines and famous dojo's, then try for sword/horse dojos to get better troops. You can turtle or blitz but blitzing is more fun.

[Wasp]

I don't think there's much to add to this! Develop your own style I'd say, and just play and learn. And foremost; enjoy!

[Brave]

Develop your own style I'd say, and just play and learn. And foremost; enjoy!

Nothing more can be added to that.

[Togakure]

Hojo start with a big income and have potential for huge income, but are weak militarily at opening. They must cover the Kanto provinces without a sufficient number of units, and hence are vulnerable for a couple of years. Takeda and Uesugi are next door, both strong clans, both coveting the Kanto. Except for Hojo Ujiyasu (4-star), the Hojo have pretty crappy generals/daimyos throughout the campaign. They must eventually contend with armies led by Shingen and the Takeda's excellent collection of generals, and Kenshin, and Date. If the Hojo survive and develop their income and infrastructure potential, they become formidable. This is key to winning with the Hojo--and producing well-trained troops in great numbers. I still think Hojo are the easiest clan to play in the standard 1530 Sengoku Jidai campaign.

The Shimazu are poor so you have to get started with just a few troops--if you don't have decent battlefield skills, they can be frustrating for the first few years. Your economy must be carefully managed (ports, ports, ports, trading posts, trading posts, churches, cathedral ...). Early on, discipline your Shimazu-self to do much with less. Once you get the ball rolling with them, it can be a very fun campaign. The daimyo line is prolific and skilled (several 4-star generals). The No Dachi bonus is wonderful--once you activate the Swordsman event and can build a Sword Dojo.

Uesugi are not as rich as the Hojo at opening, but close. They have a better starting position, and if they take the Hojo out first .... Archer bonus is fabulous, early on especially. If Totomi is taken ...superior archers, cheap! Avoid defending Totomi with archers though--that province is a paradise for cavalry. Generals are better than Hojo, and if the clan is solid when Kenshin matures ... time to rock and roll! Uesugi are easy too, almost as easy as the Hojo. Just concentrate on an enemy at a time and don't get too spread out (hence why I favor the opening I described ... inhale, EXHALE).

Oda is hardest. When you start feeling cocky, try them on Expert. Using ahisgaru effectively can be quite tricky, but they can definitely be a nice bonus unit--particularly beause you start with Owari, which has a bonus for them. Generals are not so good at first, but quite good in mid-and end-game. The Oda challenge is starting position and rebel infestations. They're in the middle of everything, and the rebels nearby are mostly monks and archers. Kyoto (Yamashiro) is the initial goal of every clan on the map played by the AI--in the heart of Oda territory. Early on it takes a Nobunaga attitude to survive and thrive with this clan. Depending on how things go, perhaps a more influencial or patient daimyo could carry things to conclusion.

The Takeda clan is the most fun ... well, for me cuz I LOVE CAV!!!! And for 375 ... I'll buy THAT for a koku (well, 375). Great bonus for all cavalry types, great generals, Shinano with it's cav bonus next door ... what a recipe for an exciting campaign! Income is a problem early on, particularly if you do what I do and abandon the western provinces to concentrate in the east. Last night, before 1533, I was able to secure Musashi as border in the east, Mikawa in the west, and Shinano. None of my neighbors were a significant threat at the point I forced myself to save and go to bed.

Mori ... meh. Just don't enjoy playing them. Crappy income, a nice but still expensive bonus, such that I still don't think it's worth it to build a lot of monks (unless I'm playing a take-my-time develop and steamroll with power units game--rare for me). Starting position has limited strategic options = boring.

***Oops, forgot the Imagawa ... I'll insert something here later when I have more time. ****

Using .conan. and playing the ronin can be very fun, but quite different from a "normal" game.

I develop such that I can build relatively balanced armies efficiently. I go for cav archers first (assuming archers, yari samurai, and yari ashigaru are a given), then yari cav, and once the Swordsman event activates, No Dachi. I don't often build monks--too expensive in the long run. Then I up to a Fortress for Naginata cav. I get arqs asap if I'm going the Christian route; muskets when the Dutch arrive otherwise. A typical balanced SP army for me is two or three archers, two or three guns, 3 yari samurai, 3 no dachi, two or three cav archers, two or three nag cav, and the taisho unit (general). Keep in mind that I play STW Warlord Ed., 1.02. When I attack, I never take more than 16 units (no reinforcements)--no matter how many units the enemy has. If I can't win with a standard army, then I shouldn't have attacked. Heh, I just don't like playing with more than 16 units in a battle (I don't enjoy piddley little battles either).

EDIT: fleshed out my commentary a bit. I'll add more when I have time. Parallel Pain I don't play Imagawa often in this campaign, but I really enjoy the 1580 Tokugawa campaign that comes in STW Warlord Edition. I'll write about it later also. I did an incomplete campaign story about it here a long time ago ... it's still here somewhere.

[Parallel Pain]

Masamune say something for Imagawa.

Or do you not play them either.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I play a VERY unconventional Imagawa, so I thought I'd throw it in here.....

The general gist of my strategy is to totally abandon Kyushu within the first year and concentrate on expanding into the Central Plain Area where the provinces are rich and have more unit bonuses.

While this lets Shimazu pretty much have free reign, the benefits of not being divided, and much richer provinces balances things, IMHO. Yes, there's a two-front war to contend with....but staying in Kyushu STILL results in a two-front war, so I prefer my method.

Once I've eliminated Oda (or at least pushed him out of Owari and Mino), have possession of Ise, Yamato, Yamashiro, Kawachi, and Kii, I have a pretty secure position and my direction of further expansion is dictated by what's going on with the other clans........if Uesugi, Hojo, and Takeda have beaten themselves up sufficiently---then I go for the throat in that direction. If Shimazu & Mori are at it (rare though, as usually they buddy up to tag-team me) then I expand south.

I've had very good success with this strategy as it solves the early koku problems of Imagawa, and provides some excellent bonus provinces: Kii for monks...(which I hardly use any more); Owari for Ashi (very important for my teppos); Iga for ninja's and BFN; and Yamashiro for it's +1 to any unit.

In any case, it's a lot of fun to play it this way, and I've had several memorable campaigns as a result......................:yes:

[Martok]

An interesting strategy, ReluctantSamurai; I may have to try that. When I play Imagawa, I'm usually stubborn and try to hold onto/take Kyushu as well as keeping my lands in Honshu.

[Wasp]

Martok! You evolved!

I like playing the Imagawa as well. Their position almost guarantees a nice campaign with a few close calls. I usually abondon Kyushu as well, but I try to keep it as long as possible with a minimum of troops.

[Togakure]

Withe the split-realm factions, I often abandon one side or the other. In the case of the Imagawa, It can also be fun to abandon central Japan for Kyushu, and play a Shimazu-like campaign as the Imagawa. Taking out the Shimazu isn't that hard, you get a No Dachi bonus province instead of an Archer bonus province, and enjoy the benefit of a better (but not necessarily more exciting ...) starting position.

If you like this kind of strategy, Try the 1580 campaign (STW WE), Tokugawa. Raze and abandon Hizen, and take Owari on the second turn. Sow seeds of terror and destruction with those nine BFN units. I love this campaign because you are basically forced to play "by ear," watching what develops patiently, and capitalizing on situations as they present themselves. In order to stay in the money, one usually has to chevauchee a lot. The BFNs do this wonderfully. I think the 1580 Imagawa campaign requires a more ... sophisticated (for the lack of a better word) strategy than the norm. And it's fun to play as Ieyasu.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Withe the split-realm factions, I often abandon one side or the other.

I find myself verrrry reluctant to use this strategy in the Takeda campaigns where provinces are split. I prefer to withdraw all troops to Aki for the southern provinces, but as my strategy usually involves the earliest acquisition of guns, and Aki is perfect for a gun factory.............

[Drisos]

In Imagawa/Takeda Sengokue Jidai campaigns I never abandoned one part of the map. But I never took it far in Kyushu when playing the Imagawa or in Southern Honshu when playing the Takeda. I used the main part of my money for Central/Northen Honshu. I recall when playing Imagawa, I conquered Kyushu in the same amount of time I defeated Takeda, Hojo and Uesugi alltogether in the north. Not really worth the amount of time, and the benefits of having Kyushu under control aren't really great either.

As Takeda, More used to keep me from conquering anything. I usually just managed to hold on to Aki for a long time, to start thinking about attacking really late in the campaign, when I already had conquering big parts from my starting position in Kai/Sagami/Izu.

I should really try abandoing one side sometime.

Abandoning Kai/Izu/Sagami when Takeda sound like a stupid move, but may give an intresting campaign. Fighting your way into Mori territory, and then playing a More-like campaign with cheap cavalry. :book:

[ReluctantSamurai]

Abandoning Kai/Izu/Sagami when Takeda sound like a stupid move, but may give an intresting campaign. Fighting your way into Mori territory, and then playing a More-like campaign with cheap cavalry.

You must be REALLY bored to go and try something as loony as that:dizzy2:

Just kidding, of course:laugh4:


and the benefits of having Kyushu under control aren't really great either.

Which is my point, exactly......poor to medium yield farmland......no ironsand deposits.....and only one province with a bonus.......

So then you get to plow through Mori land......much the same type of provinces (except Aki), or invade Shikoku......which is also more of the same:inquisitive:

Now being me.......I'd rather have Ise, Owari, Mino, Kii, Yamashiro, Kawachi, and Iga (and being Imagawa, ninjas cost less:yes: ).......but that's just me:idea2:

[Drisos]

Now being me.......I'd rather have Ise, Owari, Mino, Kii, Yamashiro, Kawachi, and Iga (and being Imagawa, ninjas cost less:yes: ).......but that's just me:idea2:

Hmm, the cheaper ninja's is actually the greatest reason for me not choosing the Imagawa for campaigns... I use very few strategic agents.

Same for Oda. I dislike the Yari Ashigaru bonus, which mostly keeps me from playing them.

[Gregoshi]

Variety is the spice of life though, right?

Just because there is a bonus doesn't mean you have to utilize it.

Likewise, just because there are handicaps, doesn't mean you should avoid a situation. Poor provinces and/or no iron doesn't make a campaign un-winable. Rise to the challenge!

[Drisos]

Variety is the spice of life though, right?

Just because there is a bonus doesn't mean you have to utilize it.

Likewise, just because there are handicaps, doesn't mean you should avoid a situation. Poor provinces and/or no iron doesn't make a campaign un-winable. Rise to the challenge!

I know. I should actually prefer campaigns with 'bad' starting position and benefits, because the 'easier' campaigns are usually too easy... :embarassed:

I'm just a coward when choosing between campaigns. :shame:

Btw, might ne nice to try Imagawa or Oda and make of story of that. Will probably be more intresting than the mongol campaigns where I totally overrunning my enemies.

[Gregoshi]

I had beaten STW as Mori, Uesugi, Takeda, and Mongols. I'm not sure if I played (and won) as Shimazu . Anyway, when I tried an Oda campaign, for the first time I had my head handed to me by the game - too many enemies coming at me from too many directions. So, when I reinstalled STW a couple of weeks ago, I had to try Oda again. So far I'm doing okay but again I've too many enemies and too few allies. What makes this a little more precarious is that I have no emissaries to correct this situation - thanks to ninjas. I'm fighting a two front war and it is an uncomfortable position to be in.

I guess my point is, the thought of playing an Oda campaign never really thrilled me. But now that I have, it certainly does present its own set of challenges and I'm glad I've taken up the challenge. And I hear Imagawa and Hojo calling to me. :laugh4:

[ReluctantSamurai]

Poor provinces and/or no iron doesn't make a campaign un-winable. Rise to the challenge!

Play Shimazu or Mori, then.........no sense creating situations where they don't exist:beam:

The 1580 starting position for Imagawa or Oda (playing on Expert) are probably the most daunting challenges in the game, IMHO.....

[Gregoshi]

I've never tried the later campaigns. I'll have to give them a shot.

[Wasp]

I almost always play one of the 'other' campaigns: 1530, 1550 and 1580. It's interesting to see which clan manages to grab a lot of provinces from the rebels, it never seems to be the same.

[Togakure]

I've never tried the later campaigns. I'll have to give them a shot.
I had played the original so much that I was delighted when WE came out and offered additional campaign scenarios. They added hundreds of hours of STW gaming pleasure for me, and I still enjoy them, to this day.

1530 reminds me of the Early era in MTW. Most provinces are held by ronin. Starting infrastructure and income is minimal for most clans. Imagawa, with 4 stars, is the highest ranking general in Nippon (in a recognized clan, anyway). The campaign ends up bearing the least likeness to actual history, but it's a fun "anything can happen" campaign. If players enjoy building from the ground up on relatively equal terms with their AI competitors, this campaign is a good choice.

In the 1550 campaign, STW Nippon looks more like the beginning of intensity during the Sengoku Jidai. The clans hold more territory, though there are still many ronin-controlled provinces. The Takeda are very strong, led by Shingen. Kenshin balances Shingen's command capability, but the Uesugi do not begin with the infrastructure or military might that the Takeda possess. Imagawa is not nearly as powerful, so playing this clan can be a challenge. The Oda, again beginning only with Owari, are quite challenging as usual. Their banner taisho, Nobunaga in particular, are soon to take the stage however. Clever play, careful timing, and good joss can result in wonders with the Oda. Clan infrastructures are more developed than in the 1530 or SJ campaigns, but not as developed as in the Late 1580 campaign. There are nice rewards for being the first to conquer and hold certain rebel provinces (I won't divulge details so as not to spoil the fun surprises). This is true in the 1530 campaign also, a welcome difference from the original SJ campaign.

1580 takes us into the heart of conflict. Shingen and Kenshin have moved onward. This is the time of Tokugawa, Katsuyori, Date, and Hideyoshi, among others. I think there are still more ronin-controlled provinces than in the SJ, but not nearly as many as in the 1530 and 1550 campaigns. Provincial infrastructures are nicely developed, and some provinces sport the finest agriculture. Christianity flourishes, but some clans remain faithful to the old ways. If players enjoy jumping into a scenario without having to build up, this scenario is ideal. I agree with ReluctantSamurai: The 1580 Tokugawa and Oda campaigns are very challenging and unpredictable. Even the finest players will find themselves in hot water if their joss is bad.

Each of these offer differences from the original SJ campaign that add variety and longevity to the STW gaming experience. Some players will enjoy one over the others because it better suits their gaming preferences. But I think there's something here in which everyone can enjoy.

I envy anyone who has not yet tried these. Hours of additional pleasure are in store for you! Good luck, have fun!

[Gregoshi]

Very nice sell job on the later campaigns Masamune. Now I'm very psyched to try them out. The 1580 campaign sounds particularly interesting. I'll definitely play them once I finish my Oda SJ campaign. That may be weeks though because I've get the chance to play for a few hours each week. I never delved into the MI Japanese campaigns because I hadn't played all the clans in the original SJ campaign - and I'm rather anal about trying all options before moving on to the next campaign. This "completeness" trait of mine can be rather annoying at times. :laugh4:

[ReluctantSamurai]

In the 1580 campaign as Oda, three out of four campaigns you will face an early, and verrrrry important battle in Mino against Takeda's cavalry (very Nagashino-like) which you MUST win or your whole position becomes untenable.

With Ikko-ikki all around you to the south and west, and a high probability of a Uesugi-Takeda alliance (at least that happens to me), if Mino is lost, that opens up your soft interior lowlands that are hard to defend......even Owari won't be safe:dizzy2:

Also, a player is far more likely to see enemy geisha (especially from Hojo) because, as has been mentioned, infrastructures are already quite developed at the start of the campaign.