Another episode of cartoons?

[atheotes]

:juggle2: not sure how big this is gonna be....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7317506.stm

couldn't find the video (at work)...

to me it doesnt seem right for person in his positions...definitely not the way to put it!

[Big_John]

video is posted here

(Moderator note: Link is 'spoilered' to prevent accidental clicking by workplace viewers)

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/27/video-fitna/

pretty much what you'd expect. surprisingly uneventful even. it's basically excerpts of some violent passages from the quran spliced together with 9/11 footage, some other terrorist attack footage, and mullahs or whatever calling for jihads of various sorts. nothing new at all.. which surprised me.. all of the hype around it made me think something new would be revealed or put forward or something.

oh and there's a brief bit where wilders equates nazism and the muslim anti-semitism he includes. and in the end he asks if the netherlands will be like certain islamic societies (specifically regarding the treatment of gays and women), and says islamisation must be stopped.


music is the arab dance from tchaikovsky's nutcracker and aase's death from grieg's peer gynt.

[CrossLOPER]

https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o273/CrossL/wilder.jpg

[Geoffrey S]

To be honest, I couldn't care less. He's got his right to make the film, but I sure as heck have the right to say that the quality of this is below par even when compared to some of the tripe on YouTube. Amateuristic and childish.

[Big_John]

To be honest, I couldn't care less. He's got his right to make the film, but I sure as heck have the right to say that the quality of this is below par even when compared to some of the tripe on YouTube. Amateuristic and childish.that's what really surprised me. it's more amateurish than "loose change" even.. i mean, what was all the hype about? why was there even any build up? i know several dudes that could have put that thing together in 20 minutes.

[Tribesman]

This quote is good Geoffrey
Amateuristic and childish.

But I like how it fits with Mautitz Bergers appraisal , "the film says a lot more about Wilders than it does about Islam" :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Does anyone else wonder if he deliberately hyped this up to get a violent reaction, and then put out something tame just to laugh at the fanatics protesting?

[HoreTore]

Does anyone else wonder if he deliberately hyped this up to get a violent reaction, and then put out something tame just to laugh at the fanatics protesting?

Never ascribe to intelligence, that which can be explained by incompetence.

EDIT: loved the title on that link of yours, big john:

"Video: “Fitna” now online; Update: Torrent link added; Update: LiveLeak issues statement; Update: Muslim leader shrugs"

[Fragony]

Bwahahaha and they shat every color of the rainnbow in their pants over this, what a terrified bunch of cowards it are. No EMFM, all he said was that he was making a movie, scared people panicked and blew it out of proportions, they must feel kinda silly now, this is just so glorious in it's absolute insignificance.

Triumph des Wilders :laugh4: :laugh4:

http://www.elsevier.nl/artimg/200803/Balkenende-en-Wilders(1).jpg

pwnd. The only thing that worries me is that they just might track down Wilder's safehouse using the richter magnitude scale.

ps, after all the hype hysteria and cowering apocalypse and doomsday, and us not caring at all, you would almost forget that another movie has been in production, was anounced long before this, made by ex-muslim Ashin Jami and we get to see the prophet shred poor little nineyearold Aischa.

[Big_John]

lol. the danish cartoonist responsible for the thread title is considering a lawsuit against wilders for copyright infringement.

... good job?

can't wait for wilders movie on christianity.. i'm sure it will be a groundbreaking work of breathtaking genius as well. i thought american politicians sucked...

[HoreTore]

made by ex-muslim Ashin Jami and we get to see the prophet shred poor little nineyearold Aischa.

....Child porn...?

Now, I know you have some very liberal politicians in the netherlands, fragony, but...

EDIT: Not that I want to debate that issue again, but here's an idea: try reading some classic literature, like Dumas or Tolstoj, and you'll see 40 year olds doing 10-year old girls regularly...

[Moros]

politicians in general suck. Belgium though did get it's more than fair share.

[Big_John]

....Child porn...?

Now, I know you have some very liberal politicians in the netherlands, fragony, but...

EDIT: Not that I want to debate that issue again, but here's an idea: try reading some classic literature, like Dumas or Tolstoj, and you'll see 40 year olds doing 10-year old girls regularly...no one builds moralistic systems around nabakov.

[Fragony]

....Child porn...?

Now, I know you have some very liberal politicians in the netherlands, fragony, but...


touche

Ah well all quiet on the western front, told ya, back to business.

[Adrian II]

Bwahahaha and they shat every color of the rainnbow in their pants over this, what a terrified bunch of cowards it are. For once I totally agree with you. :yes:

[Geoffrey S]

But I like how it fits with Mautitz Bergers appraisal , "the film says a lot more about Wilders than it does about Islam" :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Perfect description! :laugh4:

[Fragony]

lol the social dhimmicratic party of Denmark compares it to der ewige jude,first godwin is in. What's so bad about it, maybe I should finish watching it. Now can something please explode this is getting boring. Islamic rage boy, where art thou? We are counting on you.

[Dâriûsh]

lol the social dhimmicratic party of Denmark compares it to der ewige jude,first godwin is in. What's so bad about it, maybe I should finish watching it. Now can something please explode this is getting boring. Islamic rage boy, where art thou? We are counting on you.

Heck, I'm buying Faludeh ice desert for everyone if they don't demonstrate and burn flags in Peshawar, Jallalabad, and the other usually quiet and calm places in the world.

[KukriKhan]

In the 'credits', I see co-production and director is listed as: The Scarlet Pimpernel. I guess Mr. Wilders has a pretty high view of himself, saving western civilization from the horde, on our behalf, and all.

[Fragony]

Heck, I'm buying Faludeh ice desert for everyone if they don't demonstrate and burn flags in Peshawar, Jallalabad, and the other usually quiet and calm places in the world.

Hey look what the sjah dragged in, hows life outside Iran? Good to see you here again. Ah let them have their fun, all fake anyway there are no spontanious demonstrations over there. Despite the effort of blowing this up nobody gives a crap over here and over here is what concerns me most.

[Viking]

video is posted here

(Moderator note: Link is 'spoilered' to prevent accidental clicking by workplace viewers)

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/27/video-fitna/

pretty much what you'd expect. surprisingly uneventful even. it's basically excerpts of some violent passages from the quran spliced together with 9/11 footage, some other terrorist attack footage, and mullahs or whatever calling for jihads of various sorts. nothing new at all.. which surprised me.. all of the hype around it made me think something new would be revealed or put forward or something.

oh and there's a brief bit where wilders equates nazism and the muslim anti-semitism he includes. and in the end he asks if the netherlands will be like certain islamic societies (specifically regarding the treatment of gays and women), and says islamisation must be stopped.


music is the arab dance from tchaikovsky's nutcracker and aase's death from grieg's peer gynt.

Might want to warn that there is a beheading in there, ugh. :tongue:

[ICantSpellDawg]

Nothing new just like mien kampf was just a book.

What will convince people that there is a problem? What would have to happen? Does everyone live in a vacuum?

I don't live in the Netherlands, I'm just wondering.

[Crazed Rabbit]

More important, IMO, than the film is the reactions to it, specifically by the head of the UN and the EU president:

Slovenia, which holds the rotating EU presidency, said it supported the Dutch government’s position and believes the film does nothing to promote dialogue among religions.

“The European Union and its member states apply the principle of the freedom of speech which is part of our values and traditions. However, it should be exercised in a spirit of respect for religious and other beliefs and convictions,” the Slovenian presidency said in a statement.


Doudou Diène, the Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance; Asma Jahangir, the Special Rapporteur on freedom of religion or belief; and Ambeyi Ligabo, Special Rapporteur for the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression said the video “illustrates an increasing pattern that associates Muslims exclusively with violence and terrorism.”

The three Special Rapporteurs, who serve in an independent, unpaid capacity and report to the UN Human Rights Council, said it was crucial that governments step up efforts to stop this pattern and to prevent wider incitement to racial and religious hatred.

“While on the one hand, freedom of expression is a fundamental human right that must be respected, it does not extend to include incitement to racial or religious hatred, which is itself clearly a violation of human rights. Public expressions that paint adherents of a particular religion as a threat to peace or global stability are irresponsible,” the trio said in the statement.


The United Nations secretary general Ban Ki-moon also attacked the film.

“I condemn in the strongest terms the airing of Geert Wilders’ offensively anti-Islamic film,” he said in a statement.

“There is no justification for hate speech or incitement to violence. The right of free speech is not at stake here.”

The fact that the EU and UN seem to think that there'd be nothing wrong with banning this film, that doing so would not violate free speech, because not offending people is more important than free speech, does not bode well for civil liberties in Europe and elsewhere.

I think this film has shown how far some will go to accommodate extremists for the sake of multiculturalism and the like.

CR

[Fragony]

I think this film has shown how far some will go to accommodate extremists for the sake of multiculturalism and the like.

CR

Beautifull isn't it

[Geoffrey S]

Apt. (https://youtube.com/watch?v=nYzsskE5ObA)

[Tribesman]

oh dear Widers got a reaction , not one he was expecting , he is being sued by the Danish cartoonst who did the bomb/turban mohamed picture
Now of course lots of people have used that image without being sued , but apparently Wilders using it in his epic crapterpiece is just one step too far .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:


I think this film has shown how far some will go to accommodate extremists for the sake of multiculturalism and the like.

errrrr...no since that doesn't even come into it , if Wilders wanted to make a film about how evil extremists can be then no problem , he could make one about Islamic Jewish or Christian extremists its all the same and all fair game .

[Crazed Rabbit]

errrrr...no since that doesn't even come into it , if Wilders wanted to make a film about how evil extremists can be then no problem , he could make one about Islamic Jewish or Christian extremists its all the same and all fair game .

I never said he made a film just about extremists. You're wrong all the same though - some of the Danish cartoons were directly related to Islamic terrorism (like the bomb in the turban one you mention), not general Islam bashing, and those were condemned. Or are you saying people receive the same reaction in a place like Holland for criticizing Christianity as they do for criticizing Islam?

I'm saying the people I quoted are willing to trample free speech to accommodate extremists.

CR

[Big_John]

does the EU constitution have similar restrictions on speech to the US constitution?

[Tribesman]

I never said he made a film just about extremists.
And that is where he screws up :yes:


You're wrong all the same though
Errrrrrrrr....nope .


Or are you saying people receive the same reaction in a place like Holland for criticizing Christianity as they do for criticizing Islam?

Well for a measure of that to be made someone would have to make a film about dutch white supremacists who call themselves Christian and then turn it into an attack on all Christianity .


I'm saying the people I quoted are willing to trample free speech to accommodate extremists.

no , they are willing to accomodate ordinary people , the extremists don't even come into it .

[Adrian II]

The fact that the EU and UN seem to think that there'd be nothing wrong with banning this film, that doing so would not violate free speech, because not offending people is more important than free speech, does not bode well for civil liberties in Europe and elsewhere.Blah di blah. :drama2:

Look, your own Presidency said the exact same thing about the Danish cartoons as the EU Presidency has said about the Wilders thingamy. Here is what Dubya's spokesman had to say at the time: "We fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression, but it must be coupled with responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."

Does that mean the freedom of speech is about to be cancelled in the US?

Thought so.. :coffeenews:

[Big_John]

Blah di blah. :drama2:

Look, your own Presidency said the exact same thing about the Danish cartoons as the EU Presidency has said about the Wilders thingamy. Here is what Dubya's spokesman had to say at the time: "We fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression, but it must be coupled with responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."

Does that mean the freedom of speech is about to be cancelled in the US?

Thought so.. :coffeenews:it was canceled here a long time ago. i can't even writ*is whisked away by white men in black suits*

[ICantSpellDawg]

Blah di blah. :drama2:

Look, your own Presidency said the exact same thing about the Danish cartoons as the EU Presidency has said about the Wilders thingamy. Here is what Dubya's spokesman had to say at the time: "We fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression, but it must be coupled with responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."

Does that mean the freedom of speech is about to be cancelled in the US?

Thought so.. :coffeenews:

Well that was a bad response.

The Koran is a violent text. So is the Old Testament. They call on their followers to do violent things to people in the name of God. The difference is that the believers in the Koran are still doing insane and violent things in the name of it on a larger scale and have recently multiplied their population in the Netherlands. How would you feel if a few million people dropped out of a time warp from the 11th century into your country?

That is reality. George Bush is an idiot if he thinks that people won't tell the truth. I think that it's official - he is an idiot. There, I said it - the straw that broke the camel's back. He is a huge disappointment. Welcome to my world where I voted for him twice and he did nothing that I wanted him to do.

[Geoffrey S]

The Koran is a violent text. So is the Old Testament. They call on their followers to do violent things to people in the name of God. The difference is that the believers in the Koran are still doing insane and violent things in the name of it on a larger scale and have recently multiplied their population in the Netherlands. How would you feel if a few million people dropped out of a time warp from the 11th century into your country?
Um. It is his country?

And a few million people? Have you any idea about the situation in the Netherlands at all? The immigration isn't a recent thing. The amount of Muslims isn't. All it is is an increase in mass hysteria fostered by precisely those politicians such as Wilders. Honestly, I have to try my hardest not to fall for Godwin's law here. :laugh4:

[HoreTore]

lol the social dhimmicratic party of Denmark compares it to der ewige jude,first godwin is in. What's so bad about it, maybe I should finish watching it. Now can something please explode this is getting boring. Islamic rage boy, where art thou? We are counting on you.

Uhm, no, the first violation of Goodwins law was in the film, by Wilders...


does the EU constitution have similar restrictions on speech to the US constitution?

EU constitution? Fortunately no such thing exists....

[Viking]

EU constitution? Fortunately no such thing exists....

Yeah, who would want sense to be common? :laugh4:

[Big_John]

EU constitution? Fortunately no such thing exists....well i assume there are some sort of founding document(s) upon which EU law is based? do these address fundamental rights of individuals at all? if not, then my question becaomes: does holland's law have any limitations on free speech similar to US law?

[HoreTore]

well i assume there are some sort of founding document(s) upon which EU law is based? do these address fundamental rights of individuals at all? if not, then my question becaomes: does holland's law have any limitations on free speech similar to US law?

Europe consists of a bunch of individual countries, with individual laws...

As for common ground, there is the Human Rights Charter from the UN, which most european countries have worked into their legal system(I believe it's an EU obligation to do so), and given it the highest status, through the european human rights court.

As to the question, I would think no, because I don't think there is any ground in either the HR charter or rulings in the european HR court to have any limits on the freedom of speech. It doesn't stop countries making laws with that intent though, like Norway still has a blasphemy law. But it would prove impossible to convict anyone on such laws, since the courts would rule that the law in question is illegal.

[Fragony]

Lifeleak removed it, weak. Not a word in the movie that is unacceptable.

[Tribesman]

Lifeleak removed it, weak. Not a word in the movie that is unacceptable.
No not a word frag , but two images that are now subject to legal action under breach of copyright :yes:

[Fragony]

Uncle Kurt has a point, he never drawed to be used for political propaganda. Second mistake is just daft.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Blah di blah. :drama2:

Look, your own Presidency said the exact same thing about the Danish cartoons as the EU Presidency has said about the Wilders thingamy. Here is what Dubya's spokesman had to say at the time: "We fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression, but it must be coupled with responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."

Does that mean the freedom of speech is about to be cancelled in the US?

Thought so.. :coffeenews:

Strawman, Adrian. I did not say free speech was about to be canceled in the EU, but that statements from various heads of government and the like saying freedom of speech doesn't apply to offending people doesn't bode well. Surely you agree.

And I have criticized the stupid 'campaign finance law' passed by McCain and democrat friends that forbids groups to run ads mentioning a candidate 30 days or less before an election (or something like that) for the scummy unconstitutional crap that it is, and Bush for being a spineless coward to sign it into law and pass the buck to the supreme court, which failed.

But we still have the idea in the USA that even the most despicable groups get to have their say. It's why the ACLU defends the KKK's right to free speech.


Well for a measure of that to be made someone would have to make a film about dutch white supremacists who call themselves Christian and then turn it into an attack on all Christianity .

Bah. Find the many stories yourself. Christians have had much worse than any Danish cartoon drawn about them in the west and no-one rioted. There's a plethora of examples of mindless insult to Christianity that didn't meet with violence. Go find the links yourself.


no , they are willing to accomodate ordinary people , the extremists don't even come into it .

Again, wrong. I'm sure you can find the stories, but I must ask for you to cease posting such false information.

CR

[Tribesman]

Rabbit , would you by any chance be talking bollox ?
If you think uncurtailed free speech is wonderful and certainly only offends and gets a reaction from Muslims as Christians are really beyond such matters I suggest you go to a Celtic pub and say something derogatory about the Pope ......and see if you end up with an extra big smile carved across the side of your face .

[Furious Mental]

The thing is that the people in that pub probably wouldn't also want to kill your family, your friends, your countrymen, and everyone who looks a bit like you because of what you say about the Pope. People frequently ridicule Christianity and the Pope but we seldom see mobs across the globe burning effigies and calling for suicide bombings because of it. By and large Western society got over having such sacred cows a some time ago.

[Tribesman]

The thing is that the people in that pub probably wouldn't also want to kill your family, your friends, your countrymen, and everyone who looks a bit like you because of what you say about the Pope.
You clearly havn't come across the more radical fanatical celtic fans then Furious :yes:
Now of course such things do not apply to all Celtic fans any more than they apply to all Rangers fans , some of them are just followers of soccer , its just the radical fanatics that are the problem and its those that get all the headlines in the Western Media .~;)

[Furious Mental]

Well that may be the case but I think it is apples and oranges. I seldom see the managers of soccer teams trying to make excuses for rioting and so on, but in relation to this issue we are getting constant demands from Muslim leaders, both religious and governmental (and purportedly moderate ones), for national and international laws to be amended to prohibit anything that offends religious groups. So I think you are understating the extent of this silly hang up.

[Tribesman]

Well that may be the case but I think it is apples and oranges.
Oranges ? that would be them Rangers nuts:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:



So I think you are understating the extent of this silly hang up.

No I understand the extent of this silly hang up . Its Wilders silly hang up isn't it .:yes:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Rabbit , would you by any chance be talking bollox ?
If you think uncurtailed free speech is wonderful and certainly only offends and gets a reaction from Muslims as Christians are really beyond such matters I suggest you go to a Celtic pub and say something derogatory about the Pope ......and see if you end up with an extra big smile carved across the side of your face .

Wow. I wasn't even talking about that. Are you saying drunk football fans at a home pub getting angry are the same as enormous widespread riots against cartoons published weeks before that? I just want to gauge how far you are willing to stretch the meanings of different events just so you can say 'bollox'.

And back on the 'We like freedom of speech but you mustn't offend anyone angle:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080328/wl_nm/germany_islam_dc

Muslims unhappy at German "Satanic Verses" staging

By Carolyn Palmer Fri Mar 28, 1:06 PM ET

BERLIN (Reuters) - A German Muslim group said on Friday protests were likely against the first ever staging of a dramatized version of Salman Rushdie's controversial book "The Satanic Verses" in Potsdam near Berlin on Sunday.


Nurhan Soykan, spokeswoman for the central council of Muslims in Germany, told Reuters Muslims believed in a free press and freedom of opinion.

"But even this has its boundaries," she said. "We're worried that provocations and insults against us have increased recently. I wouldn't want to ban (the play) but you can bet on protests from Muslim people. They can't be expected to put up with everything."

Oh, and Liveleak pulled the video after receiving serious threats to their employees:

Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.

This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.

Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.

We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high.

A misunderstanding, I'm sure since this is the "Religion of Peace" we're talking about.

CR

[Quirinus]

What a load of bull. You don't see Jews staging a protest every time The Merchant of Venice is performed. And IMO Merchant of Venice is far more disparaging of Judaism than Satanic Verses is of Islam.


A misunderstanding, I'm sure since this is the "Religion of Peace" we're talking about.
But of course. ~;)

[Fragony]

"I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes?
Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions,
senses, affections, passions?
fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons,
subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means,
warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer,
as a Christian is?
If you prick us, do we not bleed?
If you tickle us, do we not laugh?
If you poison us, do we not die?
and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?

anti-antisemitism if you ask me.

ps, people with taste should stage a protest ever time the satanic verses is played what a load of crap. That fatwa is the best thing that ever happened to him.

[Quirinus]

But then again, the utterer of said speech was by the end of the story stripped of his wealth, his daughter, and his religion.

:drama1:

[Fragony]

But then again, the utterer of said speech was by the end of the story stripped of his wealth, his daughter, and his religion.

:drama1:

The fact that he isn't completily evil and doesn't get high on christian baby-blood says enough considering the time it was written. Maybe I am wrong but that's what I got out of it.

[Quirinus]

Very true, I suppose. But at the same time, does The Satanic Verses portray Muslims getting high on infidel baby blood? The point I was getting at is that there's a double standard involved there:
https://img82.imageshack.us/img82/550/billdaysb6.jpg

[Fragony]

Some get high on being angry I suppose, some muslims have surface to feet homing toes, can't miss them.

edit: Pat Condel says it all; http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/66351/374916fd/pat_condell_fitna_aftermath.html

edit: Tribes is going to love this, yes same guy

http://www.elsevier.nl/artimg/200803/wilders(4).jpg

[Vladimir]

Restored (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=29448_LiveLeak_Restores_Fitna&only).

[Kralizec]

If you think uncurtailed free speech is wonderful and certainly only offends and gets a reaction from Muslims as Christians are really beyond such matters I suggest you go to a Celtic pub and say something derogatory about the Pope ......and see if you end up with an extra big smile carved across the side of your face .

On the other hand, these same people wouldn't torch the American embassy or boycot USA products just because Jack Chick publishes yet another anti catholic tract. What's your point?

[HoreTore]

On the other hand, these same people wouldn't torch the American embassy or boycot USA products just because Jack Chick publishes yet another anti catholic tract. What's your point?

The last US embassy fire wasn't done by muslims though...

[Big_John]

The last US embassy fire wasn't done by muslims though...but the mosselmen were involved in the conflagration! don't you get it?! we're all going to die!!! :skull:

[Fragony]

Deleted hotlinked picture. BG

Poor Balkenende, this will probably be enough for a complete nervous breakdown but at least his wife will sleep in a therapeutic vibrating bed.

[Adrian II]

Poor Balkenende, this will probably be enough for a complete nervous breakdown but at least his wife will sleep in a therapeutic vibrating bed.That's funny. I heard they were mad at a Dutchman named 'Galt Wilsom'.
I am sooo intimidated.
:coffeenews:

[Fragony]

That's funny. I heard they were mad at a Dutchman named 'Galt Wilsom'.
I am sooo intimidated.
:coffeenews:

All a joke to you isn't, wait until they boycott our foreign aid we will be so screwed :skull:

[Adrian II]

All a joke to you isn't, wait until they boycott our foreign aid we will be so screwed :skull:You have a point there, seeing as most of our foreign aid is really selfhelp...

But who are 'they'? I mean, they have got the name, the place and the issue wrong so I suppose these are muslim protesters, but that's about all I can tell based on the 'pica' as you lot call it.

Zizeau, die zit.

[Fragony]

heaumeaux :clown:

[Leet Eriksson]

A misunderstanding, I'm sure since this is the "Religion of Peace" we're talking about.

CR

Seriously hilarious and edgy, lets all run the joke to the ground. :laugh4:

[LeftEyeNine]

[/megaphone]

ATTENTION TO ALL SATIRIC DEBATE PARTICIPATORS !

We have spotted a serious misunderstanding about what our religion is.

Islam is actually "Religion of Pace" which implies the intention that we approve suicide bombers running around and right into the blasphemy from the very start.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience occured due to some unfortunate typo.

Be wary with your next heavy pun please.

Please check the belt of the bearded one next to you.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

[/megaphone]

[Adrian II]

http://www.elsevier.nl/artimg/200803/wilders(4).jpgGod, that cartoonist sucks.. :shame:

Why does it have to be idiots all the time? Both he and Wilders are worth defending only on principle. We seriously need a quality boost in this debate.

Can't we have (another) Rushdie for a change? Someone decent, funny and smart, who knows what he is talking about when criticising religion? :dizzy2:

[Fragony]

I thought it was a pretty clever cartoon, and don't be so hard on him he didn't mean and expect all that. And Rushdie are you kidding me? What a load of crap, now Shalimar the Clown was kinda decent but the guy really needs to resist mounting his pen mid-sentence. Smart, funny, oh? Hot wife yes, it ends there.

[Adrian II]

I thought it was a pretty clever cartoon, and don't be so hard on him he didn't mean and expect all that. And Rushdie are you kidding me? What a load of crap, now Shalimar the Clown was kinda decent but the guy really needs to resist mounting his pen mid-sentence. Smart, funny, oh? Hot wife yes, it ends there.I didn't say his books are comics. Midnight's Children is probably still his best, and it is a most serious, almost a studious novel. Shalimar I thought was brilliant, it digs deep and brings up the kernel of love inside the hatred that divided a continent and now threatens to divide a world. Quite a feat for a novelist. :bow:

[Fragony]

I didn't say his books are comics. Midnight's Children is probably still his best, and it is a most serious, almost a studious novel. Shalimar I thought was brilliant, it digs deep and brings up the kernel of love inside the hatred that divided a continent and now threatens to divide a world. Quite a feat for a novelist. :bow:

Boy loses girl and is angry boils down to that, don't need Rushdie to tell me how pathetic terrorists are. Add a little paradise lost that has been done better as well and you have one heck of a novel of someone who can't construct a decent sentence. I haven't read Midnight Children might give it a go got it lying here somewhere but imho Rushdie is so very overated, maybe midnight children will change my mind but I doubt it. Read Nagieb Mahfoez instead, clever man.

[Geoffrey S]

Speaking of books, Fragony I'm assuming you've read the well-publicized Het land van aankomst by Paul Scheffer? Been reading it recently and it seems like the sort of book you might be interested in.

[Adrian II]

Boy loses girl and is angry boils down to that, don't need Rushdie to tell me how pathetic terrorists are. Add a little paradise lost that has been done better as well and you have one heck of a novel of someone who can't construct a decent sentence. I haven't read Midnight Children might give it a go got it lying here somewhere but imho Rushdie is so very overated, maybe midnight children will change my mind but I doubt it. Read Nagieb Mahfoez instead, clever man.I would point out that his rendering of Kashmir is breathtakingly beautiful and his dialogue (particularly that of the women) is very engaging. And he shows that most people, even cynical diplomats and enraged terrorists, come from lost paradises and are in search of new ones. That is the true tragedy of today's religious and ethnic strife.

[Fragony]

Speaking of books, Fragony I'm assuming you've read the well-publicized Het land van aankomst by Paul Scheffer? Been reading it recently and it seems like the sort of book you might be interested in.

Never heard of it looked it up, looks like my twin brother that got seperated by birth wrote a book.

Scheffers belangrijkste opponenten zijn niet de migranten of de moslims, maar de multiculturalisten: een zelfbewuste, kosmopolitische elite die weigert culturele verschillen te confronteren en die weinig waardering heeft voor het ontwikkelen van een positieve, nationale identiteit.

voila


I would point out that his rendering of Kashmir is breathtakingly beautiful and his dialogue (particularly that of the women) is very engaging. And he shows that most people, even cynical diplomats and enraged terrorists, come from lost paradises and are in search of new ones. That is the true tragedy of today's religious and ethnic strife.

Anyone with half a brain understands that, no need to wrap it up in long-winded sentences. Might be a revelation to some but didn't tickle my omgosh

[HoreTore]

Bah, everyone knows there haven't been any decent writers in this world since Tolstoj and Dumas anyway.

[Fragony]

Bah, everyone knows there haven't been any decent writers in this world since Tolstoj and Dumas anyway.

How cliche. Ah heck since this has turned into a book-thread which is always good, there is this pretty much unknown gem called Paustovskii, 6 books of memorial goodness you will love it.

[Adrian II]

Anyone with half a brain understands that, no need to wrap it up in long-winded sentences. Might be a revelation to some but didn't tickle my omgoshAnyone with half a brain wouldn't call his sentences long-winded. Schopenhauer or Proust, now they wrote long-winded sentences. Mahfouz on the other hand strikes me as a good story-teller, but restricted by his role of 'national author'. I read only his 'Cairo trilogy'. He has three sons turn to capitalism, communism and islam respectively. That's a good idea and it would lead to a feast of humanity as well as absurdity in any Rushdie novel, but Mahfouz is dead-serious about it. It's the same with most Arab authors. No sense of humour.

EDIT
At last we find some common ground, in Paustovsky (or Bulgakov, for that matter).

EDIT
Then again Bulgakov would be too magical realist for your taste.

[Fragony]

You probaby know what Schopenhauer said about the islam that would take this thread right on track but books are better, sometimes I think I am a closet intellectual. And NO Rushdie can't write he tries too hard, I have no idea why people like his work so much. What was that thing that was 'boekenweekgeschenk' Woede or something like that what a waste of perfectly fine trees what a load of crap. Satanic verses was an atrocity alright but only for people that can actually read if you want to have fun with yourselve go masturbate or something but please don't let people that look at eachother first before praising something decide for me. Awful. Crap. Gah. And good to know that there is still a bit of taste left in you because Paustovskii is fantastic.

[Adrian II]

Awful. Crap. Gah.You are certainly no closet critic...
And good to know that there is still a bit of taste left in you because Paustovskii is fantastic.He was part of the Odessa circle, they all had humour (Babel, Ilf & Petrov) except Paustovskyyiyiy. Still, a good read.

[Fragony]

Well since this has turned into a book thread why not submit to this, since you have been blessed with good taste despite being completily off have you read this? Was my gift to all of you when there was such a thing such as a bookthread but no takers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Leaves

[Adrian II]

Well since this has turned into a book thread why not submit to this, since you have been blessed with good taste despite being completily off have you read this? Was my gift to all of you when there was such a thing such as a bookthread but no takers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_LeavesNever seen that. I thought I'd heard of it, but then I probably confused it with a book about a fish or something that appeared last year and seems to be equally, um, unconventional. This is not some cheap pomo trip?

[Fragony]

Never seen that. I thought I'd heard of it, but then I probably confused it with a book about a fish or something that appeared last year and seems to be equally, um, unconventional. This is not some cheap pomo trip?

It shows why books can still be innovative, there is a trick in the typography you will love it. And at least you wont expect it. gogogo

[Adrian II]

gogogo*Considersitconsidersitconsidersit*

BTW why did the bookthread die? Because we are in a transitional period from text-based communication to visual communication, right?

Screw transitions.

[Fragony]

*Considersitconsidersitconsidersit*

BTW why did the bookthread die? Because we are in a transitional period from text-based communication to visual communication, right?

Screw transitions.

More concerned about you saying srcewed in a enviroment you are visualising but really, you should read it.

[Kralizec]

Never heard of it looked it up, looks like my twin brother that got seperated by birth wrote a book.

You look like this (http://www.geencommentaar.nl/media/PaulScheffer.jpg)?

And you do realize that he's a member of the Labour party?

:clown:

[Vladimir]

*Considersitconsidersitconsidersit*

BTW why did the bookthread die? Because we are in a transitional period from text-based communication to visual communication, right?

Screw transitions.

*ahem* (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galante_music)

[Fragony]

And you do realize that he's a member of the Labour party?

:clown:

Might sound strange to you but back then I already did, he had to go

[Adrian II]

*ahem* (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galante_music)Alright, alright, you don't **** with the likes of Händel and Vivaldi. Screw this transition, then.

[The Wizard]

If I hadn't known better, I'd have guessed that this was a crappy Salafi video, complete with Qur'an excerpts to justify terror, not something made by a man with a peroxide dye.