Favourite Cavalry Units

[Quintus.JC]

Noticing a short of threads in MII:TW forum. I decide to post this poll. I did the same survey with Rome some time ago. Unsurprisingly Cataphracts won the contest with 37% vote. It could be quite interesting to see which MII cavalry unit will come on top.:2thumbsup:

[Viking]

No Reiters? :gah:

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

Feudal Knights, mainly because i havent played with any of the others

[Quintus.JC]

No Reiters? :gah:

I did think about them, they're awesome. Should of wrote no missile cavalry allowed.

[Rhyfelwyr]

There's a few missile cavalry in there.

I voted Teutonic Knights, basically the same as other crusader knights but their AP maces make them much better once they are bogged down.

I also like English Knights, they are basically Feudal Knights with more armour and an axe.

Mamluks are great as well, they are the only cavalry that match the Mongol Heavy Archers.

And Strzelky are amazing. They come at bargain value, everyone else needs a top level stable to get Mounted Xbows, which arent even as good. They shoot down anything easily. Plus their axes mean they are all round anti-armour units, all from a Motte and Bailey.

I also like Hussars since I get them from cities, and Retainers since they are the first good charger cavalry the Polish get.

[Ramses II CP]

'Other' because my answer is any fast horse cavalry with a good charge. Specifically Scottish Border Horse, or maybe the Albanian mercenary cavalry. The mechanics of the game favor fast cavalry in that battles are more about annihilating the enemy's morale, and less about annihilating the enemy. Those fast cavalry will hit flanks or the rear in a hurry, and can chase down general's cavalry and all of the enemy's most valuable troops (Cavalry), providing you with that excellent ransom.

:egypt:

[Rhyfelwyr]

Oh yeah forgot about the Stradiots/Albanian Cavalry, custom made to hunt Generals. Probably the only 'fast moving' cavalry with AP weapons. Plus they look unique.

And the Scots Border Horse will make light work of English Longbows, providing they keep away from the stakes.:sweatdrop:

As for Bodyguards, the Mongols/Timurids will always beat their counterparts comfortably, thanks to their maces. I suppose you will have noticed I like units with AP weapons.

[PrestigeX]

I voted for Hussars,
because my favourite units are light-cav style
I often use Mounted Sergeants because my best use of cav is hit and run strikes to disrupt their archers.
This tactic can be observed in the movie Braveheart lol, I like to rely on a solid infantry and fast moving (and inexpensive) cavalry unit.

[Quintus.JC]

No Reiters? :gah:

Allowing Reiters to be in this poll would be like letting Scotts Guard in an assult infantry poll.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Quapukulu.

Heavy cavalry with maces. Nice charge and excellent in killing Mongols.

Edit: 400th post

[Quintus.JC]

12 votes and no one is winning?! :dizzy2:

[Grombeard]

Norse War Clerics

Powerful and -most of all- extremely cool! :D

[Dead Guy]

Norse War Clerics!
Just because they look good actually, but they're also AP and available fairly early. They may lack a little in the charge department but what the hey.

Quapukulu are great, sure, but they require so high tiered stables that I never got to use them before I had conquered half the world... Teutonic Knights are probably as hard as they come, but the hassle of retraining on the other side of your empire is just too much :p

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

Aside from my other vote i nthe poll, i have to say i am enjoying crushing my enemies with those Danish Horses, they rule! My opinion may vary as i have not used all of these horses yet, on the contrary, i have only used about 2 of them:embarassed:

[Quintus.JC]

I really like Hurscarls, mounted and dismounted.

[ataribaby]

As it is I voted for Stradiots because they're near perfect: fast, lances, maces (if only they had a little shield). The ludicrous amount of time and money it takes to obtain them in the campaign though makes them virtually impractical.

If HAs were allowed I'd pick Vardariotai. I found Dvor Cavalry awful to control. I really can't be doing with any barded or plated horses that don't have 2 HP to compensate for their sluggishness!

Feudal Knights and the like just seem to get creamed after the charge wears off simply because they can't get their backsides out of the melee quickly enough.

I'd much rather have medium cavalry like Demi Lancers - they're a nice little bonus when your English city hits the huge level. I also really like the Italian Cavalry Militia. Available in cities early with a Merchants' Guild, cheap-as-chips, heavily armoured riders and medium speed.

A big mention also for Mailed Knights. They're literally the work horses of Western factions. Some might think their ubiquity would make them a dull choice, but I love them as a reliable medium/heavy unit.

I couldn't get on with Huscarls simply because they lacked lanced charges, but I agree the Norse War Clerics are pretty cool with their blood red barding and gold-crowned riders.

[Guru]

Can't beat the outlook of Tsars Guard. :charge:

[Old Geezer]

I had to vote for the lowly Border Horse because they are so fast, cheap, and useful all the way to defeat the Timurids by the time of which I have many with gold chevrons. They are rather ineffective against the elephants and bodyguards by themselves, but with 6 of them in a cavalry army stack the Mongols and Timurids are not much of a challenge even if you have no archers or artillery, if you have some good heavy cavalry like the Hospitalers.

[Duke Bart]

I would go with the polish guard, rarely seen but they look pretty cool, that and i like the name.

[Galain_Ironhide]

Call me old fashioned, but I love Knights Hospitaller & Knights Templar come a close second. Its the cool uniforms that does it for me.

:2thumbsup:

[Eikon the Magistrate]

I voted other because I dont usually make cavalry heavy armies and as far as cav goes Ill usually take w/e there is be that merc frank knights,alan light cav or
feudal/chivalric knights. As I said b4 my "cav" is usually a mix... if it has a horse its cav and ill use it.

[Eikon the Magistrate]

This is an excellent thread for my question....regarding

Norse War Clerics

Now... they arent the most powerful ever...but they are clerics...which ..are healers kinda... at least in a RPG or w/e Is there a bonus to the recovered/healed units after a battle if you have this unit in a stack? I have always wondered this and would like to know if anyone else has info on it. Its hard to simulate but would make sense I suppose.

[Quintus.JC]

Norse War Clerics

Soldiers 32
Attack 10
Charge Bonus 4
Weapon Type Melee
Total Defence 19: Armour 8 Defence Skill 7 Shield 4 Hit Points 1 Recruitment Cost 750 Upkeep 250
Abilities at a glance

Description:
Scandinavian Bishops are not your average men of the cloth. These clerics when roused to righteous anger would ritually place upon their altar their cassock and mitre and gird themselves with the accoutrements of war. Leading a retinue to rival a king, these clerics are outlawed in Sweden but still deliver holy chastisement to the foes of Denmark
Full Details
Campaign Medieval

Category Cavalry Class Heavy Soldiers 32 Mount Mailed Horse Attributes:
Can board ships
Can withdraw
Can hide in forest
Can form charge
Knight
Cost 750 Upkeep 250 Build Turns 1 Weapon Upgrade Cost 120 Armour Upgrade Cost 95 Custom Battle Cost 750
Primary Weapon: Weapon Type (damage) Melee (blunt) Attack 10 Charge Bonus 4 Weapon Attributes:
Armor piercing
Weapon Delay 25
Armour: Armour 8 Defence Skill 7 Shield 4 Upgrades:
Level 1 (smith 4)
Level 2 (smith 5)
Hit Points 1 Morale 9 Discipline Normal Training Trained Formation Ranks 2 Heat Fatigue 6 Charge Distance 45 Formations:
Square
Wedge
Ground Modifiers: Scrub 0 Sand -2 Forest -4 Snow 0
Effects vs Mounts Elephant -4 Camel -4

I don't see any healing ability.

[Eikon the Magistrate]

I dont see that either... but they are clerics all the same... clerics are in most games healers... so I thot it be possible at least. Plus a cleric or priest in med times were used both to bless the troops and as "medics" of a sort since both sides (even moslem) usually wouldnt target unarmed priests.

Perhaps a more fanciful than practical concept.

[PBI]

I went for Sipahi Lancers, not a popular choice I imagine, but for me medium, mobile cavalry that still have a proper formed charge with lances are always preferable to elite heavy cav, which I tend to use as more of a specialist unit. I find they tend to be very vulnerable to missiles (especially javelins) and are so slow that they take forever to perform a flanking maneuver, by which time half of my (poor bloody) infantry are dead. So I prefer a unit which can still crush a unit of weaker infantry in a headlong charge, but which can get where they're needed quickly and are cheap and easy to replace or retrain.

[Caliburn]

Italian Cavalry Militia is still my favourite of all lance cavalry units.

They're not from one of the Jedi Orders, but almost any cavalry in this game is a real boon. Italian Cavalry Militia look nice, they aren't too expensive, add a nice flavour, have decent stats and can even stand against heavier cavalry long enough for reinforcements to arrive. Because they're available pretty early, they'll gain experience pretty quickly, and can thus be a force to reckon with even later in the game. They have a nice supporting role in my armies, and it doesn't break my heart (read: empty my purse) if I lose a few of them once in a while.

I might like Stradiots, but I haven't yet had the chance to use them in a campaign game...

I absolutely adore javelin cavalry. They're even more useful in M2 than they were in M1. Mounted archers are great too, but the computer doesn't even have a chance to cause many losses in most cases.

Even if you have problems with getting your horses to charge, with javelin cavalry you can cause casualties from a short range, and if they enter melee, they're more likely to cause the enemy to rout than some poor knights just walking their horses to the pitchforks awaiting them.

Polish Nobles can easily wipe out almost any cavalry unit, because they use javelins to counter even the toughest MFs on the field. The Russian equivalent, Boyar Sons, may look weaker superficially, but their armour piercing axes actually make them more useful even in later armies than might be expected of them.

[ReiseReise]

Sorry if I missed it, but Mounted Sergeants are my favorite when playing western Europe factions. They are cheap on build/upkeep cost and you can spam them all over the place and they do a wonderful job of charging from the rear once your lowly militias have engaged the enemy infantry. Also 2 MS will annihilate an enemy general if you time it right. Desert cavalry (or is it arab, whichever one is not the javelin throwers) also do a nice job in the same role, and as a plus they are Fast Moving.

I also LOVE the italian Cavalry Militia. Even the regular merchant cavalry militias make good replacements for mounted sergeants and being able to recruit cav from a city is always a plus.

[ataribaby]

Yeah, I was going to mention Arab Cavalry and Mounted Sergeants. They're nice, ubiquitously available and cheap, but aren't they just the same horse-type/speed as Mailed Knights or Italian Cavalry Militia? In which case I'll stick with my Mailed Knights.

As for regular Merchant Cavalry, I've only rarely used them as a last resort. The idea of building a Merchants' Guild to add cavalry recruitment to cities is great as Turkey with their Sipahis or Italy with their Militia Cavalry, but the other Westerners get a pretty bum deal.

Okay I agree that you can use pretty much any cavalry unit as the hammer to slam into the back of an engaged enemy, but Merchant Cavalry suffer from poor melee, poor charge, low morale, no lances and medium/slow speed. I've learnt to love Hobilars as England because at least they're fast and cheap, but Merchant Cavalry... I'll have to do more field tests but it ain't looking hopeful!

[Rhyfelwyr]

Cavalry with true (couched) lances have a completely different use from those with spears. If you want to charge enemy skirmishers or missiles at the front of their army, then lance-armed cavalry are little use. They tend to be slower, and having to do a formed charge means they fail to inflict many casualties once the enemy retreat, as they tend to leave their missiles on skirmish mode. Spear armed cavalry are genearally much faster reacting, and will do a crushing charge against light troops even if they are running away from them.

Lance-armed cavalry are for charging the main enemy line head on, or from the flanks depending on how many you have. As long as they don't have pikes or shiltrons, that line will be anihilated.

The cavalry that are harder to categorise this way are the eastern European and Muslim cavalry that are armed with spears, despite clearly being heavy cavalry. They are generally somewhere in between the two western types, being able to effectively charge skirmishers but still causing significant damage to the enemy line with a frontal charge.

As for guys like Norse Worse Clerics, I think of them as mobile infantry. Their AP maces make them particularly good at taking out General's and the enemies heavy cavalry. They don't perform too well against infantry though, as do any cavalry who take out their close melee weapons after a charge.

[theartofwarinthewesternworld]

Lancers

I think lancers are the best cavalry to turn to if you need a heavy campaign strike cavalry. They are loaded with armour (never take them into deserts), definitely cheaper than Gothic Knights, and blow most infantry away with a charge.

Definitely lancers :clown:

[Old Geezer]

No mention of Jinetes? How can that be? They are cheap, available early, and do serious damage to anything. I fought a huge stack of Spaniards once which was about 3/4 Jinetes and they were a huge pain to my Hospitalers even combined with Border Horse. I have been itching ever since to use them against Timurid elephants (and forget taking along any ballista).

[Martok]

No mention of Jinetes? How can that be? They are cheap, available early, and do serious damage to anything. I fought a huge stack of Spaniards once which was about 3/4 Jinetes and they were a huge pain to my Hospitalers even combined with Border Horse. I have been itching ever since to use them against Timurid elephants (and forget taking along any ballista).
Not to get too far off-topic, but how good are Jinnettes in Medieval 2 anyway? They're easily one of my favorite units in MTW, but I've not really heard how effective they are in the sequel (and I've not played enough M2TW myself to really know).

[Jason X]

jinetes rock all through the game. fast, armour piercing javs for assassinating generals/elephants/top end units, decent in melee... and available from cities too!
if i wasn't in the middle of a BC campaign i'd be tempted to try a vanilla spain jinete spam game.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Well I haven't played as the Iberian teams yet but I have used javelin cavalry and find them to be pretty effective. Playing as Poland, Polish Nobles proved very nice, disrupting the enemy with their javelins before closing in for the melee. Although they were slightly overshadowed by the much cheaper Strzelcy (can't believe no-ones mentioned them yet). Also as Egypt I spammed Desert Cavalry, a few of those on the flanks really battered the AI.

Javelin cavalry are however extremely annoying to fight. I dread the mid-game blitz of Poland and Russia that I often find myself doing, all those Polish Nobles and Boyar Sons.:furious3:

[PBI]

I believe the OP mentioned that he was specifically talking about melee cavalry; but while we're on the topic, I would agree Jinettes are very nice indeed, as are any javelin cavalry. Since I'm generally not a huge fan of heavy cavalry I like anything that can cut those arrogant knights down to size. Plus, they are the answer to elephants.

[Shadebeard]

I kinda voted Knights Templar because I'm obsessed with grail lore. :P

[Quintus.JC]

I voted for Knights Hospitallers because of their history and prestige. It's an organization still existing today with it's Grandmaster and headquater based at Malta.

[MerlinusCDXX]

I voted for Knights Hospitallers because of their history and prestige. It's an organization still existing today with it's Grandmaster and headquater based at Malta.

The Teutonic Order also still exists in the present.

http://www.imperialteutonicorder.org/

[Sigismund]

Dievas' Guard... nuff said...

[Lamprey]

I can't believe that list is missing mailed knights.

Heavy cavalry
Lance charge
Decent melee
Move much faster than most other heavy cavalry

Now, I'm not sure how folks use their cavalry, but in my armies it has 4 tasks, in order of importance:
1. kill archers & artillery
2. be able to tangle with enemy cavalry if needed
3. flank the enemy line
4. chase routers

For these tasks, most heavy cavalry in the poll is merely decent. They can fight enemy cav and flank/charge enemy infantry, but they suck at killing archers and chasing routers. They're slow as molasses and take forever to even catch archers, and forget about routers; they move slow and get disorganized too fast.

Mailed knights, on the other hand, are average at fighting enemy cavalry but excel at everything else due to their speed (they maintain unit cohesion better when killing routers too). They're also available early, and to every western faction. I suppose you *could* use 2 heavy cav to do the fighting and 2 light cav to chase routers, but it's just easier to get 3 mailed knights instead to save on the micromanagement. The last thing I'd want to do is to micro two cav task forces.

[Eikon the Magistrate]

For these tasks, most heavy cavalry in the poll is merely decent. They can fight enemy cav and flank/charge enemy infantry, but they suck at killing archers and chasing routers. They're slow as molasses and take forever to even catch archers, and forget about routers; they move slow and get disorganized too fast.





Many people say this in posts... I just dont understand becuz I never have problems with hvy cav chasing down anything but other cav...heck most of the time I only have 1-2 cav including officer chasing down their whole army after a mass rout.... it always works ok for me in vanilla and the patched version as well. The only time they slow down is trees/hills but they do that neways...as for the killing, how can something with a attack of 12-18 defense of 12-18 and charge bonus of 6-8 suck at killing archers with a defense of 10 or less? AI archers flee in terror from my grand armies. 1/2 the time its a sacrifice unit doing the chasing too... not even a cav, more like a spearman on loose form... or something similar. If the archer unit is moving its not shooting...so I consider making missle infantry move pretty much the same thing as attacking them, either way they lose most of their use and set themselves up for mass counter-missle fire when they do return within range of my perty missle line that hasnt had to do anything but stand there and wait.

[rvg]

Teutonic Knights. Excellent stats, armor piercing, recruitable from both cities and castles (provided that the order is present of course), they are just badass from every angle.

Famiglia Ducale is a close second.

[Lamprey]

Many people say this in posts... I just dont understand becuz I never have problems with hvy cav chasing down anything but other cav...heck most of the time I only have 1-2 cav including officer chasing down their whole army after a mass rout.... it always works ok for me in vanilla and the patched version as well. The only time they slow down is trees/hills but they do that neways...

You're right, but try it with mailed knights or mounted sergeants. The heavy cav will catch routers, but they move slow and spread out so you end up with a very loose formation WALKING alongside a few routers unless you micro them. This happens MUCH less often with mailed knights or light cav. The difference is like night & day.


as for the killing, how can something with a attack of 12-18 defense of 12-18 and charge bonus of 6-8 suck at killing archers with a defense of 10 or less? AI archers flee in terror from my grand armies.

That's just it, they flee in terror. A 9-15 unit will kill archers just as easily as a 12-18 one since they're both overpowered for the job against most archers. However, imagine the enemy has 5 archer units. You charge one and it runs, heavy cav takes a while to catch it while mailed knights catch it quickly. While you chase one, the other 4 archers are firing away. Therefore, the 12-18 unit sucks vs. archers because it takes it much longer than a 9-15 unit to kill them (sucks is being used as a relative term - it doesn't outright suck, it sucks in comparison).


If the archer unit is moving its not shooting...so I consider making missle infantry move pretty much the same thing as attacking them, either way they lose most of their use and set themselves up for mass counter-missle fire when they do return within range of my perty missle line that hasnt had to do anything but stand there and wait.

But the longer an archer unit keeps your cav chasing after it, the longer other enemy archers fire unmolested, unless you bring enough cav to chase them all at once. Not the case usually, at least not with me.



I guess in the end, my point is that you very rarely need super heavy cav to win because the AI doesn't often field troops heavy enough and when it does, it doesn't know how to use them properly. Therefore, for me, it comes down to which cav unit is faster/more efficient. If the AI didn't field medium troops (armoured sergeants, norse archers & the like) I'd even argue that mounted sergeants are the best cav unit, but the AI does field medium troops and mounted sergeants can't really handle those well.

[Quintus.JC]

Result of Poll: Inconclusive:sweatdrop:

[Caliburn]

I think then CA succeeds pretty well in bringing some variety into the show: not just one ueber berzerk cavalry lolz thingy (mmm maybe oliphants...) on the field, but a compelling mixture of interesting varieties.

I don't say this too often (maybe not often enough), but here it goes:

Hats for the CA team!

[Fulliautomatix]

If voting for missile cavalry was included, I definitely would say the Byzantine Vardariotai; I like the fact they're fast, and they're also one of the strongest horse archers. A half-stack alone is effective in crushing everything from HRE stacks consisting of DFK (by shooting them up) or the Milanese hordes (simply by charging into all that pesky crossbow militia). The Milanese rout surprisingly quickly to Vard charges. It feels like a cheat using Vard stacks, so I am trying to play the Byzantines more "conventionally" now.

A shout out to Jinettes: In my current Bzy campaign, I have now run into a strong Portugal which has taken over the Iberian peninsula and half of France. The Portugese have spammed Jinettes, and they are the one unit where the AI can stand up to the Vardariotai. They seem to get close enough to the Vards to unleash their javelins, but not so close that the Vards will skirmish and retreat on their own; so I have to micromanage every Vard unit or it winds up being decimated by javelin volleys. The jinettes can almost stand up to the Vards in melee combat as well (especially a half-destroyed and shocked Vard unit still pulling javelins out of their horses' backsides).

[lorduzi]

Hi,

As I am playing Polish campaign (vanilla 1.2) my bet is Polish Retainers:
- fast as Mailed Knigths
- devastating charge (long lances)
- cheaper to recruit/maintain even than mailed knights
They won't stay long in prolonged melee but are the best in "hit-and-run" tactic.

[PrestigeX]

My favourite calvary units are.

1. Scottish - Border Horse.. Cheap, and very effective.

2. Alan Mercenary Cavalry. well worth the money!

3. Italian Militia Cavalry - built in cities, look wicked (pig face basicnet) , longer lances, and combined with the pavise crossbowmen/italian spear militia.. a combined arms force able to beat almost any other.


in general I prefer light-cavalry type units rather than Knights or their equivalents. They are faster, cheaper, easier to rebuild, and ofcourse tend to be better at enganging the flanks or rear.. better at chasing down routers , and tend to follow orders better without the knightly tendancy to commit to the melee.

[FactionHeir]

Sorry guys, you are a bit late :wink: OP already stated that the poll is pretty much over a few posts up.
Also, the thread is already rather aged.