View Full Version : Hastati to low upkeep?
Why should Rome have dangerous sword solider like the Hastati, and only have to pay 270!
Some factions have to pay 300 for a Town Watch, or some other no good unit.
Roman army of the time where not any cheaper to maintain than another national army, from my understanding. As it consisted of rather wealthy tax payers.
Parallel Pain
03-28-2008, 23:58
Town watch? I thought EB threw these guys out.
beatoangelico
03-29-2008, 00:03
I think the low upkeep (and cost) is meant to represent the citizen-soldier structure of the roman army and the massive number of men that it could mobilize and field. Since the other stats for them are quite low I see no reason to increse costs.
Hastati really aren't that great, 'ya know...
Spartan198
03-29-2008, 00:10
Argh! I went in and changed all army upkeep to 0,so I never noticed.
Is this historical correct? In the early time of the republic, was the citizen-soldier of Rome cheaper to upkeep then those citizen-soldier of Greece? Why?
Could Rome on her own realy mobilize that many in the early republic? My understanding is that the reforms came also because they could not field that many as long as the army was limited to the upper tax classes.
General Appo
03-29-2008, 00:19
Well that came later. Rome had a incredible ability to muster huge amounts of men without completely collapsing, and though I´ll leave the explanation to others, I would say that the upkeep for the Hastai is not to high. Remember though, the Hastati aren´t really meant to deployed for 20 years in the field, that´s the later proffesional post-Marian legionaries, most Camillan and Polybian legions disbanded after just one or at most a couple of seasons, when the need for an army was over. Only in extreme cases did people serve any longer, such as during the Second Punic War, were some people served for over a decade. Later as the republic became larger this didn´t really work anymore, as men were forced to serve for many years in remote locations such as Asia Minor, one of the main reasons the Marians came along in the first place.
NeoSpartan
03-29-2008, 04:35
REALLY!!!!!!!!
Look man Camilian Romani and Polybian Romani are CHEAP AS HELL!
Don't believe me?? Look!
Polybian Principes: $342 Upkeep.
Aedui Gaeroas: $357! Upkeep. --> and these guys are just with pants, cloak, shield and a spear NOTHING ELSE!
gurakshun
03-29-2008, 05:32
REALLY!!!!!!!!
Look man Camilian Romani and Polybian Romani are CHEAP AS HELL!
Don't believe me?? Look!
Polybian Principes: $342 Upkeep.
Aedui Gaeroas: $357! Upkeep. --> and these guys are just with pants, cloak, shield and a spear NOTHING ELSE!
maybe those javelins they throw are covered in a thin sheet of gold!
Why should Rome have dangerous sword solider like the Hastati, and only have to pay 270!
Some factions have to pay 300 for a Town Watch, or some other no good unit.
Roman army of the time where not any cheaper to maintain than another national army, from my understanding. As it consisted of rather wealthy tax payers.
Not to draw too fine a point, but do you know about Roman social law or understand what the Latin term legio actually means?
russia almighty
03-29-2008, 06:25
I'll try to answer it, since I smelled some anger in my topic from you.
legio basically means levy; of any male that wasn't enslaved. From there of course it got broken down into land ownership, wealth ect.
I agree legio=levy or grouping
Decimus Attius Arbiter
03-29-2008, 07:41
Gaeroas come in a 120 man unit. They'd be cheaper than hastati if they had 80.
Rome and her allies in 225 B.C had a total of 700,000 men eligible to be drafted into the legions. This was why they could retrain new units faster than other nations who only used a small section of their citizenry to fight. I also believe Romans were not paid for their service so the maintenance might go only to food and necessaries. Not loot or pay.
General Appo
03-29-2008, 10:28
Indeed, all eligible citizens were expected to serve in the Legions without complaint nor payment apart from soem possible looting. Modern cynicism should not make us doubt this system, and virtually all Romans of all classes were very patriotic and it was very seldom that Rome had difficulties finding men to serve in the Legions. At least until the late Republic.
Peltastai are the closest equivalent to Camillan Hastati by equipement and stats. So Hastati are only a bit cheaper than other units of the same class. But you have that many times in EB, for example Sweboz units are sometimes cheaper and sometimes more expensive than comparable Celtic units. Or take Hoplitai Haploi for example. If we have a unit that is a bargin than it is them.
Gebeleisis
03-29-2008, 13:18
REALLY!!!!!!!!
Look man Camilian Romani and Polybian Romani are CHEAP AS HELL!
Don't believe me?? Look!
Polybian Principes: $342 Upkeep.
Aedui Gaeroas: $357! Upkeep. --> and these guys are just with pants, cloak, shield and a spear NOTHING ELSE!
at least those guys have pants!
look at the Gestae they dont even have pants and have so larga unkeep:shame:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
03-29-2008, 13:21
Actually, the Romans were paid a wage since about 450, the first time the Legions were kept under arms year-round.
Titus Marcellus Scato
03-29-2008, 13:47
Gaeroas come in a 120 man unit. They'd be cheaper than Hastati if they had 80.
Indeed. 357 mnai upkeep divided by 120 times 80 equals 238. Hastati are 270 for 80 men.
NeoSpartan
03-29-2008, 16:06
Indeed. 357 mnai upkeep divided by 120 times 80 equals 238. Hastati are 270 for 80 men.
naa.... Phandotatoi Phalangitai are 120 and they cost $34+.
But anyways:
as Deciums explained...
Rome and her allies in 225 B.C had a total of 700,000 men eligible to be drafted into the legions. This was why they could retrain new units faster than other nations who only used a small section of their citizenry to fight. I also believe Romans were not paid for their service so the maintenance might go only to food and necessaries. Not loot or pay.
this makes the most sence, I just look at Polybian Pricipes vs Cohort Reformata and the cost difference was $201!!!! As Cohorts were paid and equiped in full by their commanders.
I stand corrected, EB's Camilian and Polybian Romani infantry units are Ok.
General Appo
03-29-2008, 16:51
Yeah, but the best bargain you can get is still (as Konny said) Hoplitai Haploi. 2 of those combined with 1 Akontistai can hold of most non major attacks at your cities, and for a very cheap prize. Just a few weeks ago in my Romani campaign Qarthasdim attacked Messana with 2 Poeni Citizen Militia, 1 Libyan Spearmen, 1 Liby-Phoenician Infantry, 1 Parasim Lebiponnim and 1 Forest Elephants, and I just had 2 Hoplitai Haploi and 1 Akontistai, defending a pallisade, and I still won easily.
Admitedly, the elephants running amok and killing about 15% of their army helped a bit, but still, for that price, a great bargain.
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