The better game...Shogun or Medieval?

[AlanH_30]

I've been playing Medieval since it was released here in the UK and **hand on heart** I feel that Shogun is the better game.

IMO the battles in Shogun have a better "feel" to them and you really got a sense of blood and guts on the battlefield compared to Medievals.

Graphically I think Medieval is poorer on the battlefield and the strat map. Units look way too blocky even at high res and as for the countless hours spent configuring every known option on my video card to get this beast running at some kind of respectable speed...well, we've all been down that road.

As for the campaign side - I feel that in Medieval, they have tried to cram too much in and that it's overly complicated. It certainly leads to weird thing happening. I get the impression that it's going to be patch after patch after patch to fix the campign issues.

Overall I just prefer the presentation and feel of Shogun

I'm not putting Medieval down I still think it's a great game (maybe too ambitious) and I'll still play it

But plonk me on a desert island and give me a choice between the two....it's Shogun

[Grifman]

Nope, MTW by far. Different factions that actually play differently rather than factions that used all the same units as in STW. That alone makes the game better. More variety and more longevity. Playing Hojo wasn't very different than playing Mori, but playing Byzantium is a very different experience than playing England.

Grifman

[maroule]

same here, more replay value, esp if you invent specific rules for each faction (example, play the spanish with a heavy religion angle, italians with spy/trade, etc.)

[Rosacrux]

Grifman - maroule: I agree 100% http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[econ21]

MTW seems to have more variety and unpredictability in both the strategic and tactical games. In Shogun, I felt both the specific strategy and tactics got too familiar - logic dictated fighting the same clans in the same order; the battles were repetitive "Oh, here I am defending the same ridge again" or "How many times must I defend this stupid bridge". It also seemed a little easier to "out-tech" the AI: warrior monks and heavy cavalry were SO much better than other melee units. In MTW, the tech evolution seems more incremental and the AI seems to move up the ladder a little more. Numbers seem to matter more also, so it is harder to defeat a large army with a few units.
With MTW, playing factions such as the English there is a lot of flexibility over who you fight & indeed whether to fight - quietly building and role-playing are more of an option.
Finally, I find the MTW AI a little better on both the strategic map (less "cheating") and the tactical map (e.g. the AI sometimes uses weather or trees to frustrate missile & cav heavy armies).

[el_slapper]

it depends on how long you can play a game. Even if you auto-siml most battles, a MTW campaign is VERY long. Far longer than STW. I've got enough time, so I'd choose MTW, but qhoever has a life could choose differently...

And I looooove having 8-stars heirs. Way cool.

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War is not about who is right, only about who is left

[TheViking]

First of all u cant compare playing mori vs hojo and byz vs english cuz both mori and hojo lived in the same country. england and byz dont its 2 diferent country and ofcuz have diferent units.

I always out-tech the a.i. in mtw which i didnt do in either in STW even on easy game.

All I have to do to win against the a.i. in mtw is to rush it.

I hate to admit this, but i never could beat the STW campain on normal difficulty even. And I havent done that yet, but I did beat the expert 2 vs me flat map(hoped that saved my honor a bit http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif)

I still play STW. I love it more then MI and MTW together. But I think the MI campain was a bit better cuz the buildings cost only half and the building time is half then it was in STW.

I think the graphic is better in STW.

I dont have to turn off the sound and all that stuff to run STW smoth. I have much better specs then minimum to run MTW.

My old PC that I used for STW barely had the minimum specs but I didnt need to turn of sound to run it smoth.

So STW is the better game in my opinion.

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There I see my father.
There I see my mother, my sisters and brothers.
There I see my line of ancestors back to the beginning.
They call on me and ask me to take my place with them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live forever.

[This message has been edited by TheViking (edited 10-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by TheViking (edited 10-11-2002).]

[Inferno]

For me the jury is still out. Both games have advantages and disadvantages.

Shogun:

Runs smoother
Has better music
Less tedious micromanagement
Can complete a campaign in one (long) sitting

Medieval

More units
More variety
Trade
Longer, more replay value

I guess I am beginning to lead towards MTW, but every time I have to move ~ 40 diplomatic agents in the same year my feelings start swaying back to Shogun again.

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It's getting warm in here...that must be one hell of an INFERNO!

[Sjakihata]

Indeed I like the setting and mood better in Shogun, actually I love it! I really like Japanese warfare, mentality, and philosophy. The setting in MTW is JUST http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif european history, which I do not like very much compare to japanese.
I have not played MTW campaing, as I simply find it boring. Boring because the only thing you have to focus on is micromanage EVERYTHING, spies, titles, taxes etc.
In Shogun, the spies were limited and taxes were set in the whole domain, not single provinces.
I have played like 50 at most, and find the campaign dull, easy (ai), and simply not attractive. In shogun I had problems too in completing the campaign too...
MTW in MP, is very fun, EXCEPT the major unbalances, and I hope this will be fixed. If it will I think I like MTW better in MP, if not Shogun wins both in MP and SP.

(When I say shogun I mean the whole shogun serie: STW, STW:MI)

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*bows* - Power to the Sultan!

Clan Seljuk

[The Scourge]

Quote Originally posted by Inferno:

I guess I am beginning to lead towards MTW, but every time I have to move ~ 40 diplomatic agents in the same year my feelings start swaying back to Shogun again.

[/QUOTE]

Does anybody actually bother to move that many in a single a turn?
Personally Ill leave a few Emissaries around the world,just so I have an idea about whats going on in the world.The rest ill use them when I feel I need to use them.

[spiffy_scimitar]

How in the world do people consider the graphics better in Shogun than in M:TW??

Although Shogun was the first to put that many troops on screen, from afar they looked like miniature flag posts, and from close they were jumbles of pixels. You could see the seams of the ground textures and they were highly blurred. There were many less frames of animation per unit, and the dead units all looked the same, so you couldnt differentiate between how many you lost and how many were your foe's.

Medieval, although lacking several graphical features that I would have liked to have seen (more angles on troops, offsetted animation, shadows under trees and buildings and siege weapons, still water in oasis and rivers) it was still much more refined. Units up close look crisp and the animation more varied. terrain no longer looks like an ice rink up close. Hedgerows and farms look beleivable and castles look authentic. The strat map now gives a better feel for the terrain, and event drawings (although I miss the movies) are nice enough to give character to your strategic pieces.
Not to mention expoding cannonballs, crumbling walls... apart from the cultural STYLE difference in the Eastern and Western worlds, whose preference is purely subjective, M:TW outclasses Shogun completely in the graphics department.
As it should be , too.. it's been 2 years http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Inferno]

Quote Originally posted by The Scourge:
Does anybody actually bother to move that many in a single a turn?
Personally Ill leave a few Emissaries around the world,just so I have an idea about whats going on in the world.The rest ill use them when I feel I need to use them.[/QUOTE]

Of course I do, otherwise I wouldn't have said it! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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It's getting warm in here...that must be one hell of an INFERNO!

[+DOC+]

MTW by a long long way....

[hrvojej]

The only thing that I like better about STW is the flavour. The throne room, the movies, everything spoken in Japanese, the music, it all gave me the feeling that "I was there". That said, MTW is a better game imo in all other respects, and the fact that it lacks the excellent flavour of Shogun is understandable since the scope is much broader, and it gives me way more variety overall.

[Cyricist]

I concur with that

[Orda Khan]

Both are fun when they work. I still have to say Shogun and I find the graphics in Shogun are very good indeed, not a jumble of pixels by any stretch.
Maybe MTW will get better with the patch but if it's strategy, balance and downright fun you want I suggest you try STW/MI 103 mod.
A pity it arrived too late to catch on due to the MTW hysteria but in my opinion it's the ultimate tactical battle version
What I've seen of MTW I agree with Kocmoc, it's a rush game

.....Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[AlanH_30]

Orda

[AlanH_30]

Orda

What is in the 103 mod and where can I get it from

[Soapyfrog]

The Viking: In STW I could play any faction on expert and win in 25 years.

The absolute toughest campaign was playing the Japanese against the Mongol Hordes.

If you are getting out-teched by the AI on EASY in STW, then I can certainly understand why you dislike MTW, since it is a much tougher game in most respects.

Graphics in MTW are far superior. The units are higher res, the terrain is nicer.

Sounds like you are having some other perfomrance-related problems that are helping to ruin your MTW experience...

[RJV]

STW had a certain style about it I think, must be to do with the Far East setting and the unit types. MTW is more familiar in terms of where you fight and what you fight with.
Micromanagement: I tend to balance as someone said earlier - don't move 'em all at once, check every few turns unless there's an assassin I'm particularly trying to level up, or a province I want converting with my bishop hit squad. 'Hunt the Bride' gets rather irritating though as many's the time I've had one get too old and disappear off to the convent.
Battles - love 'em in both games. No good at them mind you, but love 'em none the less.
MTW just shades it I think...

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There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers...

[TheViking]

Soapyfrog:
STW campain is harder to me then MTW thats why i think MTW SP is a poor game. U have to read all what im writing. I know i have a lack in english but do try to understand what im writing and dont turn stuff around in ur favour I know u have missunderstood me specially from that other thread.

But I love u anyway, and I wish u the best.

And again its only my opinion. As the topic says:
The better game...Shogun or Medieval?
with that i think the guy wants to know what other thinks. So I gave him my thouts.

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There I see my father.
There I see my mother, my sisters and brothers.
There I see my line of ancestors back to the beginning.
They call on me and ask me to take my place with them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live forever.

[This message has been edited by TheViking (edited 10-11-2002).]

[Soapyfrog]

The Viking:

I am not trying to insult you... the impression I got from you earlier was that you didn't like MTW becuase it was harder. I didn't realize you thought it was easier.

I had a really easy time with STW, and I find MTW harder (and more interesting for many reasons), so I confess I misunderstood you completely!

Well, anyway, I'm still confused... can you explain how MTW is harder than STW?

[Pachinko]

Quote Graphically I think Medieval is poorer on the battlefield and the strat map. Units look way too blocky even at high res and as for the countless hours spent configuring every known option on my video card to get this beast running at some kind of respectable speed...well, we've all been down that road.[/QUOTE]

Huh?? I dont understand... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif



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Crush your enemies, see them driven before you on the field of battle, and hear the lamentation of their women.

Dev quote>>Sigh, ye of little faith. Don't assume everything is a bug.