My professors do it again

[anubis88]

Incredible. Just came from my class, and the professor said, that if anyone wants to know how the Romans fought against the Germans, they should watch Gladiator.
He then continued by telling that the Romans won so many battles against barbarians because of their higher intelect:clown: , ( he said the Romans used tactics, on the other side barbarians just attacked headless).
I mean not to mention the roman use of artilery in that battle as if it was ww2, they never threw their pillas, and they fought with a broken formation....
He then also claimed that the Germans that won at teutoberg forest fought naked or barely naked, with only scraps of cloth....

I must admit, I was like wtf during the entire class:laugh4:
Anyone had any similar experiences?:smash:

[brymht]

Thankfully no...... Greco Roman studies at my school have tended to be fairly accurate.

In fact, my professors usually pointed to movies to see "OK< This looks cool, but it was NOTHING like this".

Unless its the Rome series. The few battle scenes they had in that were absolutely spot on.

[Metalstrm]

Wait, isn't what he said true? :P

Anyway, depends on what kind of professor. If it's a physics professor I wouldn't really be surprised, but if it's a history professor specialising in Rome, well, that's another story.

[alatar]

"OK< This looks cool, but it was NOTHING like this".

Yup I get that a lot, save in rare situations where we are told what is spot on.

[EdwardL]

Anubis I must ask, where do you live?

It seems somewhere, a government is misappropriating educational funding.

[Dhampir]

Anyone had any similar experiences?:smash:

No.

But I did have a professor who was teaching the Gilded Age forget about the Progressives.

[Respenus]

Luckily no. He always says that movies are meant for entertainment and are nice to look at, but nothing more.

God, if I had a professor like that, I'd kill myself. Arguing with him all the time. Must be a bore. And then they wonder why children aren't interested in classes. Ya duh! Those few that follow the subject get mentally killed by stupid professors.

@anubis88: Does Piran have a highschool or do you have to go somewhere else?

Oh, and I can't wait till you reach Slovenian lands in the Holy Roman Empire and the Counts of Celje. You'll have to film it for me. I guess I'll probably fall from my chair.

[lobf]

Unless its the Rome series. The few battle scenes they had in that were absolutely spot on.

...maybe :)

[anubis88]

Luckily no. He always says that movies are meant for entertainment and are nice to look at, but nothing more.

God, if I had a professor like that, I'd kill myself. Arguing with him all the time. Must be a bore. And then they wonder why children aren't interested in classes. Ya duh! Those few that follow the subject get mentally killed by stupid professors.

@anubis88: Does Piran have a highschool or do you have to go somewhere else?

Oh, and I can't wait till you reach Slovenian lands in the Holy Roman Empire and the Counts of Celje. You'll have to film it for me. I guess I'll probably fall from my chair.

LOL, it's not in Piran, it's in the freacking Filozofski Fakulteti (slovenian college, that has a history department), history department!. Granted, he's not an expert in Rome, his a Medieval period teacher, but i mean c'monn.

@EdwardL
No, we kinda have a pretty good schooling program. I'm from Slovenia:beam:

[Lord Smart]

This is how i was taught about the Roman time in High school. In the history book there was a picture of two man. The first was a clean noble looking Roman soldier in well that is a no brainer in LS. On the right there was a stupid ugly hairy looking Celt,with a bearskin on. He even got a huge stone club. Of course the wole chapter was about the great nobele Romans were,who brought things as sewers and laws and the like.

[anubis88]

LOL, it's not in Piran, it's in the freacking Filozofski Fakulteti (slovenian college in Ljubljana, that has a history department), history department!. Granted, he's not an expert in Rome, his a Medieval period teacher, but i mean c'monn. That's just wierd

@EdwardL
No, we kinda have a pretty good schooling program. I'm from Slovenia:beam:
sss

[Respenus]

Well Anubis what can one expect if all they offer on their Open door day is a magnificent tours of the Path of Brotherhood and Unity and that's the pinnacle of their programme. :wall:

No wonder I want to escape.

[Beefy187]

Considering that Marcus Aurelius and his general was not soo briliant like those in Julius Caesar's time, Its possible that fight against the Germans often went terribly. Few things went wrong in Gladiator battle scene

1. They gave the higher land to the enemy
2. They didnt throw pilla
3. They broke formation and fought one on one
4. Way too much Artilary..

Maybe it was really like that coz Marcus Aurelius and his crew wasnt that great.

[eggthief]

Some of u dont know how spoiled u are. Go to high school in the Netherlands, you'll get one month of ancient history and its way to spread out with no details at all and the rest of your school period will go about how cool we were for enslaving Indonesia and how much more we suffered from ww2 than all the other countries and jews together.

[Dhampir]

Some of u dont know how spoiled u are. Go to high school in the Netherlands, you'll get one month of ancient history and its way to spread out with no details at all and the rest of your school period will go about how cool we were for enslaving Indonesia and how much more we suffered from ww2 than all the other countries and jews together.

I don't remember what was taught when I was in High School except that it was all wrong.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Some of u dont know how spoiled u are. Go to high school in the Netherlands, you'll get one month of ancient history and its way to spread out with no details at all and the rest of your school period will go about how cool we were for enslaving Indonesia and how much more we suffered from ww2 than all the other countries and jews together.

I'd disagree, but somehow I get the feeling we've been to some really very different form of highschool in the Netherlands... :juggle:

[blitzkrieg80]

try school in the US- where they STILL teach that people thought the world was flat during Columbus' time... wtf- i guess it's like 'Thanksgiving' - thanks for being foolish enough not to keep us alive despite our own stupidity, oh yeah, here's some 'blankets' :uhoh2:

yeah- you really don't want to hear what i think of Gladiator's Germans (I do like the movie though but not for historical accuracy)... you can see one guy with a horned helmet :wall:

btw, I took Medieval history at my university (some of the few European history classes available- i got more informaton from my English classes [Old Norse, Old English] but that's because my professor was so good and offered such), but my professor in medieval wasn't so bad as what you describe (pretty pathetic- talkabout lying on your resume ~;)), but the teacher wasn't too knowledgeable on barbarians either and the subject matter was entirely Byzantine/Greco-Roman, Inheritors of Rome BS and not about the true Germanic and Celtic cultural founding which lies behind of 90% of what we know of during that time: not including land-law, 'courtiers', and tax-collection oh can't forget divine kingship: whipty-doo. but it makes sense though, since there isn't as much written and we don't have so much to look at period. Unfortunately, truely rewarding information is very hard to find concerning barbarian culture.

[Dhampir]

try school in the US- where they STILL teach that people thought the world was flat during Columbus' time...

Where? I've never encountered such a thing.

[blitzkrieg80]

elementary school and more. it's pretty widespread.

[Dhampir]

elementary school and more. it's pretty widespread.

Never heard of it. Sounds like an urban myth.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It isn't really purposefully taught, but for the most part every teacher I had in elementry school said that Columbus thought the world was round and everyone else thought he was crazy. I think the teachers all thought it is a fact.

They all say this even though everybody knew the world was round in Columbus' day and simply knew an accurate measurement of the circumfence. By measuring the circumference, they though there was way too much sea between Europe and China. Columbus was actually stupider than the average person and said that the circumference was less that everyone though, making China just over the horizon. Turns out they were right about the circumference but there was more than just sea out there.

BTW, Columbus was a racist, pediphile, and happily profitted from the intentional genicide of people.

[DefenderofFuture]

Columbus was also an idiot.

I'm at the University of Wisconsin, and my professor took the first half of the course telling us how the Gauls were better in every way than the Romans (I exaggerate, but she spent about as much time on the Gauls' technology as she did on the Romans' [it was a survey class]). A bit of a reactionary position, but it's a warm welcome compared to the common teaching that the barbarians were mental infants with clubs. :beam:

[Decimus Attius Arbiter]

The only good comment about Gladiator from my Roman history professor was that it correctly portrayed the fact that no patrician would take becoming a slave shall we say, quietly. Its a good movie and we see pila in the Colosseum scenes.

[cmacq]

Columbus was also an idiot.

I'm at the University of Wisconsin, and my professor took the first half of the course telling us how the Gauls were better in every way than the Romans (I exaggerate, but she spent about as much time on the Gauls' technology as she did on the Romans' [it was a survey class]). A bit of a reactionary position, but it's a warm welcome compared to the common teaching that the barbarians were mental infants with clubs. :beam:

And by Gauls she meant the Hellenized Kelts living in what is today central and eastern France? If one is going to be obtuse, maybe she should get the details correct. As with the Romans, these Gauls gained most of their technology by way of the western Greeks. For all they contributed, those poor chaps really don't get much play, do they?

[Sarkiss]

BTW, Columbus was a racist, pediphile, and happily profitted from the intentional genicide of people.
and how many folks back then were not (apart from pedophile that is)?
Columbus was a product of his time... and a pedophile lol

[Chris1959]

It is rather frightening how most peoples ideas about history are derived from Hollywood!
With regard to Columbus being a peadophile, surely in the C15th unless it was with boys there was no age of consent in a legal sense.

[Hax]

Yeah, there very little doubt existed in 1492 concerning whether the earth was round or not, the fact is nobody tried it.

And the church didn't want to admit it. Everyone knew it, but nobody had written it down officially.

[Chris1959]

Maybe they didn't want to admit it until someone proved it, how dumb would they have looked if expedition after expedition kept sailing of the edge:laugh4:

[Tristuskhan]

This thread reminds me of an history lesson when I was a wannabe-lumberjack.
The teacher, not a bad guy, said the Royal Navy had scuttled the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir in 1942.
My smile was sufficient to make him understand we should speak a little after the lesson... But I did not question his words in public, it was useless, especially facing twenty wannabe-lumberjacks, that would have been a very bad thing for his authority.

He made the correction on the next lesson.
The French fleet scuttled herself in Toulon 1942, in order to prevent seizing by the German. And it was (preventing seizure by axis) the reason why the RN attacked Mers-El-Kebir in 1940. He also admitted that the Brits had no choice in 1940 and that this affair was somehow justified by the might and quality of the french fleet at that time.

[Strategos Alexandros]

We do nothing before the battle of Hastings in my school. So far we have done in 3 years:

2 weeks on Norman conquest
a term on Henry VIII
2 lessons on the English civil war
Georgian and Victorian towns in England
More Tudors
French civil war
World war 1
World war 2
:thumbsdown: :wall:

[Metalstrm]

Well I'm not a history student, but anyway most of what is said is factual over here. The largest and stupidest I've come across iirc, was when a geography teacher said that a scale like 1:10,000 means that 1 cm is equal to 10,000km on the map, when I was 12 or so.

I remember getting angry, taking a streetmap with me after the lesson, and showing it to her:

"So 1cm is 10,000km you said?"
"Yes of course"
"So this road over here is hundreds of thousands of kilometers long?"
"Well, you have to measure the exact length and then multiply by 10,000 to get the length in km."
"And this same road is about... what, 1,000km wide?"
"Seems like it."
"Miss, but the world is only like 10 or 12 thousand kilometers from pole to pole! This road is longer than that!"

[forgotten the sequence here, but it was something that amounted to incredulity and a lack of acknowledgement of her mistake]

Jesus Christ.

[bovi]

There are an astounding number of people who don't know what the modifiers before various units mean, IE milli, centi, deci, deca, hecto (sp?), kilo, and more in each direction. Your teacher is one of them. Possibly she also didn't use the metric system in daily life?

[Dhampir]

I'm at the University of Wisconsin, and my professor took the first half of the course telling us how the Gauls were better in every way than the Romans (I exaggerate, but she spent about as much time on the Gauls' technology as she did on the Romans' [it was a survey class]). A bit of a reactionary position, but it's a warm welcome compared to the common teaching that the barbarians were mental infants with clubs. :beam:

I am applying to graduate school at UW...perhaps you can put in a good word for me? I can return the favor by...um...shaking your hand...yeah.

[Olaf The Great]

We do nothing before the battle of Hastings in my school. So far we have done in 3 years:

2 weeks on Norman conquest
a term on Henry VIII
2 lessons on the English civil war
Georgian and Victorian towns in England
More Tudors
French civil war
World war 1
World war 2
:thumbsdown: :wall:
My school has been stuck on early american history (1750-1850) for 3 years now.

If I here the words "Huckleberry Finn" ever again, I will go insane.

[Disciple of Tacitus]

I think what we are seeing by the various reactions to teachers and what they teach is a good example of how hard it is to create a quality and consistent curriculum that passes muster. Suprisingly, classes are often dictated entirely by either teachers preferences or oddly worse, teachers being forced to teach something they have NO interest in. You can easily see how inconsistencies occur.
I think what might be more helpful is how do we improve upon the teaching of history?

[Metalstrm]

How can you get a degree in geography and not even know that 1:10,000 does not mean 1cm = 10,000km?

Utter brainf***, that's how I think.

And obviously, I expect a professor to be the ultimate source for anything related to his topic. And to not make any stupid comments on anything not related to his topic of expertise.

[Disciple of Tacitus]

Considering that Marcus Aurelius and his general was not soo briliant like those in Julius Caesar's time ...
Maybe it was really like that coz Marcus Aurelius and his crew wasnt that great.

I would take issue with that, but this is not the thread for it.

[bovi]

And obviously, I expect a professor to be the ultimate source for anything related to his topic. And to not make any stupid comments on anything not related to his topic of expertise.
You are in for a world of disappointment.

[Dhampir]

How can you get a degree in geography and not even know that 1:10,000 does not mean 1cm = 10,000km?

If the teacher was in a high school, she did not necessarily have a degree in geography.


And obviously, I expect a professor to be the ultimate source for anything related to his topic. And to not make any stupid comments on anything not related to his topic of expertise.

My general experience with professors at UW-Milwaukee is that they'll say anything that pops into their head. The professors I had at UW-Parkside, however were far more professional and if they didn't know something they say so and then go find an answer.

[Metalstrm]

Well, not in my department really. The few professors we have are alright, and most are very learned. Ok, most like to talk shit about politics but who doesn't?

Haven't heard any professor stating that energy can be created out of nothing yet... hehe

[Tellos Athenaios]

How can you get a degree in geography and not even know that 1:10,000 does not mean 1cm = 10,000km?

Perhaps because you venture on the slippery slope of elementary math?

[mlc82]

Well, in my time in public school in the US, this is what we learend in history classes: "Once there were the Greeks, and they did some things. Then the Romans came along and they conquered some people. Then William the Conqueror came and took over England. Then there were a few unimportant N American wars like the Revolution and US Civil War. Then WWII started and ZOMG!!! WE WON THE WHOLE THING ON OUR OWN!!!". The end. Tests will be on Friday.

Go figure.

[pezhetairoi]

Testy silence on Iraq, I see.

@Olaf

Huckleberry Finn! :D

@Anubis88

It's time to change school. Seriously. Or write in to the big bosses to expose the idiocy of this so-called 'professor'. With articles and proof of course, of which there is no lack of in this forum.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, in my time in public school in the US, this is what we learend in history classes: "Once there were the Greeks, and they did some things. Then the Romans came along and they conquered some people. Then William the Conqueror came and took over England. Then there were a few unimportant N American wars like the Revolution and US Civil War. Then WWII started and ZOMG!!! WE WON THE WHOLE THING ON OUR OWN!!!". The end. Tests will be on Friday.

Go figure.

That does seem how American history courses are structured. I was honor student and that's what it was like except there was alot more padding around the revolution and the great depression(we usually pretty much spaced out on Reconstruction and the Gielded Age).

[lobf]

My dad is(was) an American History teacher (a fantastic one, and I can say that without bias), and I had the best, most thoughtful and intelligent World history teacher in high school, so I guess I'm really lucky.

Unfortunately, very few people that I know are as passionate about History as I am. Which is why the internet is the fucking shiznit.

[antisocialmunky]

For every person that is passionate about history on the internet, there are about 1000 who spout stuff they've seen on TV. Out of those 1000, 200 make comments on youtube. Out of those 200, 1 posts something like:


those fucking traitors killed Ceasar greatest King and General in history ;/ burn in hell brutus , Kaska and other assholes ;/

You too buddy, you too...

[Dhampir]

That does seem how American history courses are structured. I was honor student and that's what it was like except there was alot more padding around the revolution and the great depression(we usually pretty much spaced out on Reconstruction and the Gielded Age).

The Gilded Age is perhaps the most important period in American History.

[antisocialmunky]

O rly?

Perhaps it because it was business as usual:

+Avoid Recession
+Oppressing Brown People
+Presidential Scandal
+Killing Trancendantalism and Romanticism - Realism, baby!
+Industialize
+Ignore the Outside World
+Increase the Wealth Disparity
+Nature -> Profit

that its forgotten.

[blitzkrieg80]

like anybody doesn't follow those.

yeah, i must say, i can't even make effective searchs (if there ever was a time when it was possible) on google or other search engines anymore because i get spam keyword crap like adihaiosdhaosihfpadihaw0dhawdihawpdh hansa aslhfasisoifhaosihdasi goth asdiasodisaofihsaoifhosifhhoaef... this is the beloved internet of the masses- no thanks. most of the information i've ever found on the internet is wrong, unless using scholarly database guidance and such and it's still a pain to find anything worthwhile. i've had much more success in the crappiest university library.

[Dhampir]

O rly?

Perhaps it because it was business as usual:

+Avoid Recession
+Oppressing Brown People
+Presidential Scandal
+Killing Trancendantalism and Romanticism - Realism, baby!
+Industialize
+Ignore the Outside World
+Increase the Wealth Disparity
+Nature -> Profit

that its forgotten.

Unfortunately, you're wrong.

It is the very industrial and social reform which took place during the Gilded Age which laid the groundwork for the fantastic success of the American Century.

I am not surprised that you didn't learn this in public school, where it is taught that all goodness springs from the bowels of FDR.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, that may very well be true of that period more than others, but that arguement is pretty much valid for all of a country's history. I would say its how broadly you defined 'business as usual.' I was refering to the relatively peaceful development of the country.

That's probably the real reason that people don't learn about it - no triumphs over adversity or a powerful enemy. The game is fairly dull until you finish teching up and start spamming marines and siege tanks at the enemy. Don't even get me started about what happens when the nukes and the battlecruisers begin showing up.

[mlc82]

My dad is(was) an American History teacher (a fantastic one, and I can say that without bias), and I had the best, most thoughtful and intelligent World history teacher in high school, so I guess I'm really lucky.

Unfortunately, very few people that I know are as passionate about History as I am. Which is why the internet is the fucking shiznit.

My Dad was a great history teacher as well, and probably part of the reason why I became such a history nerd myself. Most of the history teachers I had in high school were the usual "coach who also has to teach a subject in order to be a coach and couldn't care/know any less about it".

[mlc82]

Admittedly we did study some on the Great Depression and other such topics, however there really wasn't any how and why to it, just memorizing terms, names, and dates. As boring as it could possibly be made- if it weren't for my already being deeply interested in history, thanks to public school I'd probably hate the subject just as much as most N American kids seem to.

[Elmetiacos]

Well, in my time in public school in the US, this is what we learend in history classes: "Once there were the Greeks, and they did some things. Then the Romans came along and they conquered some people. Then William the Conqueror came and took over England. Then there were a few unimportant N American wars like the Revolution and US Civil War. Then WWII started and ZOMG!!! WE WON THE WHOLE THING ON OUR OWN!!!". The end. Tests will be on Friday.

Go figure.
This reminds me of someone's summary of how The History Channel tends to present things as: there was the Romans and then there was Hitler...

[antisocialmunky]

This reminds me of someone's summary of how The History Channel tends to present things as: there was the Romans and then there was Hitler...

Dude, that's... so history channel in a nutshell.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Don't forget mummies. The third most likely thing to see in the History Channel is something about mummies...

[cmacq]

Humm, my history channel has been telling me that science says we're all going to suffer and die horridly because of global this, impact that, or methane whatever.

[Memento Mori]

A teacher I had in 5th grade insisted that bats were insects and not mammals :shame:

That bats in Norwegian are called "flaggermus", literary "flying mice", did little impression on her.

She also claimed whales to be fish.

[Dhampir]

The history channel is infuriating. Every so often they have a quality program and you convince yourself that it's worth paying for cable just to see the random program. And then they fill the rest of the broadcast time with "modern marvels" and "histories mysteries" and stuff about UFOs and pseudoscience. You finally get just about fed up and then they have something quality on again.

A prof I used to have (now retired) who was a Russia specialist said that the series "Russia: Land of the Tzars" was the best documentary series on Russian history he had ever seen.

[Moosemanmoo]

anyone's history teacher ever refered to "We Were Soldiers" for an accurate visual description of the vietnam war?:inquisitive:


though he made up for that by showing us Platoon and Full Metal Jacket :jester:

[Dhampir]

anyone's history teacher ever refered to "We Were Soldiers" for an accurate visual description of the vietnam war?:inquisitive:


though he made up for that by showing us Platoon and Full Metal Jacket :jester:

It is decent representative of US vs NVA engagements. Two conventional forces who stand toe to toe and duke it out.

The kind of combat was the exception before the spring of 1968 and the norm after the spring of 1968.

It was fairly accurate of that specific airhead in the Ia Drang valley but does not fully show the scope of the larger battle.

[cmacq]

A teacher I had in 5th grade insisted that bats were insects and not mammals :shame:

That bats in Norwegian are called "flaggermus", literary "flying mice", did little impression on her.

She also claimed whales to be fish.

Bats are flying-mice in German, as well.

[russia almighty]

I was hoping Robert Mason would have gotten a Cameo in "We Were Soldiers".

[mlc82]

anyone's history teacher ever refered to "We Were Soldiers" for an accurate visual description of the vietnam war?:inquisitive:


though he made up for that by showing us Platoon and Full Metal Jacket :jester:

I did have one history teacher when I was 13 or so (another coach teacher, go figure), in which we spent the whole US History class watching John Wayne films and taking tests on them. Most of those made that god awful "300" movie look like the greatest docudrama ever made. Granted, this was much more fun than the usual "read 20 pages, memorize dates and names long enough to test over them, then forget them forever" method that is the public school standard.

[russia almighty]

^I wish history classes were like that instead of, "write 20 page persuasive paypa on masturbation in the middle ages."

[Jolt]

Incredible. Just came from my class, and the professor said, that if anyone wants to know how the Romans fought against the Germans, they should watch Gladiator.

..Wait. Didn't they fight like the Gladiator? I thought that when the Romans used Testudo formation, the barbarians tried to poke their spears inside but couldn't, then the Romans would quickly break formation and stab the surprised barbarians to death. That's what I learned in my Roman History classes. :P

Testudo Romans! That would make an awesome faction!

[Gnaeus Servilius]

I take it then that i'm not the only one that has to listen to people who are like, 'well I read one paragraph on the EB unit description so that's how it was.'

Basically it annoys me when people say something like: 'This one film or whatever is completley infallible and that was how it was done.' Whatever happened to comparing sources and making a logical decision based on a wide variety of texts and other kinds of evidence?

[Watchman]

But that would take effort!!

[Gnaeus Servilius]

I know that your joking, but that is my point. Why do people try and argue something that they have practically no knowledge about? Is it just me who finds being told the facts of history by someone who has never even bothered to do a little research just a tiny bit annoying? (I'm not trying to antagonize anyone here)

And this isn't unique to the subject of history. I had to listen to someone telling me that there were cavemen walking about during the age of dinosaurs! He must have watched the flintstones and thought, Hey well it was on telly so it must be true!

[Uticensis]

I’ve come to this forum a lot, especially in the past days since 1.1 came out, but never posted before. But seeing this topic, I just had to comment and get this off my chest to people who can understand my frustration.

I’m a Classics major at my University and I needed another credit in the department, but I’ve taken most of the classes and have a busy schedule, so I signed up for the Intro to Roman History class. I know the teacher well because she is the chair of the department and in all fairness knows a lot about Archaic Greek art. That being said, here are some of the things I have had to sit through this semester in her lectures:

-Gaul was the ancient name for Britain (She said this when describing Caesar’s conquest. Not just a slip up, she had a map of Britian on her PowerPoint listed Commentarii de Bello Gallico).
-A tribunis pleblis had to be a Patrician (Clodius must have wished). She went on about how this kept the tribunes from wanting to get through land reforms.
-Augustus turned all the all the provinces with legions into one “super province” that he was governor of (I suppose a dumbed down explanation of his reforms)
-Mark Antony lost the standards to the Parthians (He was defeated by them too, I know, but she never even mentioned Crassus).
-The Dacians were part of the Roman Empire who rebelled, so Trajan conquered them.
-African Elephants were too small to carry a person.
-The Selukids traded all their lands East of Syria for their 500 elephants (I guess so she wouldn’t have to explain the messy details of what happened over there.)
-Beside all that (and much more that I can’t remember off the top of my head), she mentions anything in Seutonius, Historia Augusta, ect. as if it were fact.

She’s the chair of the classics department at a major, well-respected University. And she says such things. It drives me crazy.

[Xurr]

-Gaul was the ancient name for Britain (She said this when describing Caesar’s conquest. Not just a slip up, she had a map of Britian on her PowerPoint listed Commentarii de Bello Gallico).
-A tribunis pleblis had to be a Patrician (Clodius must have wished). She went on about how this kept the tribunes from wanting to get through land reforms.
-Augustus turned all the all the provinces with legions into one “super province” that he was governor of (I suppose a dumbed down explanation of his reforms)
-Mark Antony lost the standards to the Parthians (He was defeated by them too, I know, but she never even mentioned Crassus).
-The Dacians were part of the Roman Empire who rebelled, so Trajan conquered them.
-African Elephants were too small to carry a person.
-The Selukids traded all their lands East of Syria for their 500 elephants (I guess so she wouldn’t have to explain the messy details of what happened over there.)
-Beside all that (and much more that I can’t remember off the top of my head), she mentions anything in Seutonius, Historia Augusta, ect. as if it were fact.

She’s the chair of the classics department at a major, well-respected University. And she says such things. It drives me crazy.



You should sue and get your money back for that class. You had a reasonable expectation that it would provide accurate information and clearly the class failed to deliver.

[Gnaeus Servilius]

I’ve come to this forum a lot, especially in the past days since 1.1 came out, but never posted before. But seeing this topic, I just had to comment and get this off my chest to people who can understand my frustration.

Listen, you just have the same problem as anyone who studies a subject at a higher level. Basically you will have to listen to a lot of ignorant people who know nothing about a subject lecture you on what you do and don't know. I've encountered these kind of people for years, they don't care about facts they just want to shout you down most of the time because in their small minds it makes them right. However there are some really good tutors and people in general who are just interested in learning and getting to the truth. Not just
trying to force their own innacurate and narrow minded opinion on you. Keep an open mind, but also keep your eyes peeled for cretins.

[Uticensis]

Listen, you just have the same problem as anyone who studies a subject at a higher level. Basically you will have to listen to a lot of ignorant people who know nothing about a subject lecture you on what you do and don't know. I've encountered these kind of people for years, they don't care about facts they just want to shout you down most of the time because in their small minds it makes them right. However there are some really good tutors and people in general who are just interested in learning and getting to the truth.

I know. I've had a lot of good professors. This one just drives me crazy. Not so much because I know how wrong she is: that just mildly annoys me. But what gets me really angry is the people who just accept what she says, never read primary sources, and believe these things to be true. They are essentially being lied to.
And then one day they might download EB and get engaged, come to this forum and complain, because the Romans aren't wearing Lorica Segmentata when the Romans really did, because that's what all the Roman soldiers were wearing in all the pictures their college professor showed them. And elephants with towers:dizzy2:

[Gnaeus Servilius]

But what gets me really angry is the people who just accept what she says, never read primary sources, and believe these things to be true. They are essentially being lied to.

These people who just accept one opinion at face value do so because they either don't care or they fall into the trap that a lot of people do, which is basically: 'well they said it, I like the sound of that, I'll just argue and argue until
anyone with two brain cells to rub together just gives up' If they are ever put amongst genuine people who are intelligent they just show themselves up. The problem is that the ignorant people vastly outnumber the people who can have an intelligent debate. I've argued points which I have studied and debated with other students and when you prove to the ignorant people that they are wrong, they will just say something like 'I don't care anyway' or 'who cares, what's the point of studying history anyway?' With regard to your tutor, perhaps you should go over her head? I wouldn't even bother challenging her directly it would probably just get ugly.

I personally love it when everything I thought to be true is turned upside down!

[Uticensis]

I wouldn't even bother challenging her directly it would probably just get ugly.
I've gone up to her after class when she made some of her most outrageous blunders, and we are both polite. She knows that I'm a classics major and that I know what I'm talking about. She just goes, "oh, thanks." One day she said, "oh, you're always correcting me," in a joking manner. But I'm not. I let most of it go. And I don't say anything during class because I don't want to embarrass her.
But again, I don't really care what she thinks, but about all the other students (mostly freshmen)who come to college naturally expecting to be taught facts in their history class, and don't know enough to realize they are not.

[Gnaeus Servilius]

I've gone up to her after class when she made some of her most outrageous blunders, and we are both polite. She knows that I'm a classics major and that I know what I'm talking about. She just goes, "oh, thanks."

What use are laws where money is king?

I can understand your frustration about the new students, in my previous post I assumed they were at the same level as you. But it is not your fault, in my view, it is best not to get to wound-up or it sucks the enjoyment out of the subject you study. It may sound selfish, but you just have to let other people sort their own problems out. (I hope that doesn't sound patronising)

[alatar]

What use are laws where money is king?

I can understand your frustration about the new students, in my previous post I assumed they were at the same level as you. But it is not your fault, in my view, it is best not to get to wound-up or it sucks the enjoyment out of the subject you study. It may sound selfish, but you just have to let other people sort their own problems out. (I hope that doesn't sound patronising)

I think he did the right thing, going to her and correcting her politely means that in future she won't make the same mistakes and the future students will learn more.

And if you do not care about the rest of the students, you cannot complain when they are ignorant.

[Gnaeus Servilius]

And if you do not care about the rest of the students, you cannot complain when they are ignorant.

That's not fair, your putting words in my mouth. I never said I didn't care about other students I just said you can't keep sorting out other peoples problems. I also never said I though what he did was wrong, I just said he shouldn't get wound up about it.

[cmacq]

She’s the chair of the classics department at a major, well-respected University. And she says such things. It drives me crazy.



Are you serious; she's the chair??? What level is this course, not that it matters if the dept chair is the instructor? Uticensis, I hope to hell this is an American University?

[Uticensis]

It's an intro level class.
I took it just because I needed a Classics class and it fit my schedule, and would be an easy A.
And yes, sadly I go to college in America. Unfortunately, the classics is a dying field here, considered a very low priorty (a teacher advised that if I want to teach, I should go to grad school for histroy because universities have esentially stopped hiring classics professors).

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to say the name of the school: I go to the University of Florida. Classics and history are not its specialty, I suppose, but it is considered one of the best public universities in the country. And, there are a lot of good teachers, and I wouldn't say this is a bad teahcer, they just have her teaching something she doesn't know anything about, and it shows.

[cmacq]

It's an intro level class.
I took it just because I needed a Classics class and it fit my schedule, and would be an easy A.
And yes, sadly I go to college in America. Unfortunately, the classics is a dying field here, considered a very low priorty (a teacher advised that if I want to teach, I should go to grad school for histroy because universities have esentially stopped hiring classics professors).

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to say the name of the school: I go to the University of Florida. Classics and history are not its specialty, I suppose, but it is considered one of the best public universities in the country. And, there are a lot of good teachers, and I wouldn't say this is a bad teahcer, they just have her teaching something she doesn't know anything about, and it shows.

But you said she is the chair of the classics department? Also, they all say, 'they are considered one of the best public universities in the country.' Thats just part of the game.

[Uticensis]

Yeah, she's the chair, but she knows languages and her specialty is early Greek sculpture. Roman history is outside those areas, I suppose. The University probably just needed somebody to teach the class. It be be like me teaching Assyrian history, or something, I suppose. Its ancient history, but not something I know a heck of a lot about.

[cmacq]

Of course no reflection on you. but my friend, that why there is a Cambridge Ancient History.

http://www.cambridge.org/uk/browse/browse_highlights.asp?subjectid=1009088

Somewhat dated in some cases, but still a very good reference. I suggest she either invest in a set or spend so time in that thingy I like to call, 'the university library.'

[Uticensis]

Ha. I'm quite familiar withthe Cambridge Ancient History. Perhaps she tried to reference them but couldn't because I have volumes 12-14 checked out for my own personal use (my nerdiness knows no bounds).
But, seriously, you're right. A lot of it is her fault. She is too lazy to actually do research.

[cmacq]

She is too lazy to actually do research.


Right, that was the little four-letter word I was looking for. And may I add, she seems too lazy to be a chair.

[Uticensis]

Indeed. Hence my complaining.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

I have to admit that I am quite frankly amazed that uni professors (and chairs!!!) can make such errors (whether through lack of research or misinformation). While I understand that it may not be their speciality, surely if they're teaching it they should at least be informed, or have researched, the basics.

I'm definitely no expert, I only 'study' history as a hobby, but even I know the things Uticensis mentioned were way off.

Then again, as I'm in a completely different faculty (engineering) it could be like that at my my uni too.

On a slightly different note, I'd just like to object to Gnaeus Servilius' comments.

These people who just accept one opinion at face value do so because they either don't care or they fall into the trap that a lot of people do, which is basically: 'well they said it, I like the sound of that, I'll just argue and argue until anyone with two brain cells to rub together just gives up' If they are ever put amongst genuine people who are intelligent they just show themselves up. The problem is that the ignorant people vastly outnumber the people who can have an intelligent debate.
Funnily enough, most people tend to accept 'more knowledgeable' peoples opinions at face value. If some first-year student studying ancient history is told by the chair of the school that something happened, they'd tend to accept it. Its not their fault that they don't have all the facts. Yes they should be reading other sources and analysing and etc. etc. and if they do then they'll most likely find the discrepancy and bring it up.
However, just because somebody takes something at face value, does not make them ignorant!!!

EDIT: By your way of thinking anybody who doesn't take the time to read extensively on a subject (ie: go to uni/study) should keep their mouth shut and not have an opinion.

[Gnaeus Servilius]

EDIT: By your way of thinking anybody who doesn't take the time to read extensively on a subject (ie: go to uni/study) should keep their mouth shut and not have an opinion.

I'm sorry? where did I say that? You have also put words into my mouth. That's not what I said at all.
I knew it would be a mistake posting on this forum. I should have known better.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

I'm sorry for any undue offence, but it is merely a considered opinion. If it seems a touch emphatic thats because I was mildly annoyed when I first replied, and thus attempted to use my unique and frustrating (because nobody knows when I'm being serious, I don't either :dizzy2: ) sense of humour to explain myself. My point, in very crude terms, is that you sound a touch elitest, and that you may want to consider how what your writing sounds to us mere mortals who have never done any tertiary History.

EDIT: plus in case you haven't noticed, I tend to exaggerate... a lot!

[Dhampir]

Unfortunately, the classics is a dying field here, considered a very low priorty (a teacher advised that if I want to teach, I should go to grad school for histroy because universities have esentially stopped hiring classics professors).


Students either enter philosophy programs so they can get into law school or history programs so they can teach. The idea of Classics is not compatible with going to a university to get trained for a job, which is essentially what universities in the United States do.

This has positives and negatives--the idea of job training as a major component of education.

For history students it is most definitely a positive.

I have worked with students from France and Germany who were supposed to be on the same level as me and they knew very little about actually doing history. Their education focused mainly on memorization where as mine focused on methods so I can do my own research--individual research is the primary learning platform for the programs I have been a part of. These guys knew their dates hands down but couldn't create a very good synthesis.

I don't know what universities they went to, and I hold out the possibility that it is just their universities which were ill-preparing them for their future professions.

This approach, when studying history, better prepares you for graduate school and the kinds of non-teaching jobs that history majors enter in to (insurance companies, government jobs--both as research-type jobs).