SP Provinces *Noob help pls*

[AndyH]

I am a noob. I've fought a lot of battles on auto resolve.

Recently I started fighting in 3D. I was suprised when I fought in the same province twice and got different maps. I've looked back through the manual and not found any references to this.

Does anyone know the rules?

Which provinces are easy to defend etc?

In particular I struggle across central Europe. I'd love to know where the river provinces were so that I can avoid having an indefensible line, North to South across the central part of Europe which always used rivers as defence.

[Wart]

Select a province, so that the info sheet on it comes up, then hover the cursor over a neighbouring province. The bottom section of the province info sheet will show what terrain armies attacking the selected region from the one that the mouse is over, will face.
That seems like a really long sentence, does it make sense? Can't tell, im a little feverish at the mo. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

[AndyH]

Ah thanks.
It is the BORDER that is important not the province!

You get a different map depending on which direction you were coming from.

The other thing I've just noticed is that it is not symetrical. E.g. Denmark into Saxony is a river map. Saxony into Denmark isn't.

So it is borders but not as I know it!!!?!!

[This message has been edited by AndyH (edited 10-12-2002).]

[Wart]

Yep, thats what I was trying to say! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Each province does actually have its own terrain types (described in early.txt), but this is only used in the case of rebellions, or other fights that happen without one side crossing a border.

[AndyH]

So back to my unasked question. Is there a line of provinces across central Europe that is actually defensible.

Irrespective of starting country (I've tried England, Turkey, Spain, Byz and Denmark) I always get across Africa, Iberia, UK and Ireland, Scandanavia,the islands in the med, the bit around Turkey and the Holy Lands (not necessarily in that order) and then really struggle for the rest of the map.

The areas I've talked about can all be taken with at most 3 provices in your front line. The other areas are hopeless. I always seem to be tring to defend 6 provinces at once, what with the added problem of rebellions (I'm not strong on the micro management needed to stop them happening) I always seem to be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and end up either taking the 60% victory or waiting for the end of the game.

Time and time again the enemy seems to flank my push across Europe into Balkans and over into Russia.



[This message has been edited by AndyH (edited 10-12-2002).]

[Cyricist]

What you could do is imagine the natural mountain areas that Europe has. There are quite a few of them, and in MTW most of them are prominently there (the Swiss Alps, for instance). So take out an atlas and draw yourself a defense line starting, for instance, with the Alps, runnning for instance west to east, using the Pyreneas, The Alps and the Balkan Highlands as potential chokepoints. Or that is what I would do anyway.

Currently I am playing the Egyptians and thus far I have only bested parts south of these natural borders. Only Turkey's hilly landscape made it a teeny weeny bit more difficult to advance, but of course, with over 800 men Saracen Spearmen in each army as a standard, climbing a few hilltops is not exactly hard http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.

[ravenking]

Yeah, this game does pretty well with geographical accuracy. If you know the layout of Europe somewhat, the game pretty much follows real life.

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"You there, knight!" "Yes, sir?" "We just lost that battle. Why did you order your men to charge that unit of enemy sergeants?" "Uh, I was impetuous, sir" "'IMPETUOUS!? Impetuous!? Men! Kill him, I want his head!"

[Pragmatic]

When playing the Byz, my defense chain is:

Khazar blocks from northeast.
Bulgaria and Serbia block from northwest.
Egypt blocks from southwest.
Lots of ships block amphibious assaults.

That way, I can have about 1/3 of the map without problems.

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But yeah, I can see what you mean. The fewer provinces you have to protect, the smaller the drain garrisons are on your wallet. Look at the Germans and the Polish, they've got borders everywhere.

Now, the Danish. Danes have one border to defend. Conquer Norway and Sweden, no extra major garrisons. Conquer Ireland, again no major garrisons. Conquer Scotland, and then work your way down to Flanders. That's a second garrison. At that point, stop, and build up your fleet, both for trade and to stop enemies from invading.

[AndyH]

I should have said I'm trying for 100% domination. Therefore I've got to tackle the sticky bit at some point.

The 1/3 of the map is great and really easy to have and to hold, but the rest really gets hard.

What is more, up to that point you can take on opponents one at a time (Byz, Turks, Egyptians, Elmos, Spainish, Danes, Aragonese). Each area is easily defensible (assuming you give a little on the western border of Byz).

However ,going across Europe you either trust your allies (well the first time you might?!?) or you end up at war with 2-4 factions all the time (French, Germans, Italians, Poles, Hungarians, Russians, English, Papists, Sycillians) don't form little defensible areas (well the English sort of 1/2 and 1/2 depending on when you take them out).

Using the mountains might help I guess but I still end up with my resources too over stretched to make it easy.

[insolent1]

Well i've only got 100% with only 1 faction as I prefer to play GA mode. I played the English & took all of France. I held in the south in aragon & navarre & held in western europe in saxony, franconia, swabia, tyrolia, venice, & tuscany. From there I teched up & produced 100's of spys & bishops. I took constantinople, antioch, tripoli, khazar & palestine with crsuades. This allowed my to take the middle east once I launched a sea assault on egypt. After this I was able to secure the middle east with my 3 armies in the holy lands while the armies in egypt, constant & khazar held all the other factions off. Next I took morocco cutting the almohads in 2. From here I held & teched up & build 2 big armies & sent them into Novorgond. This is the way I took the whole map without a single rebellion, I left all the Islands for the end. Spys, bishops & cardinals in multiudes is essential for this. Also station armies in provinces that have many borders so if there is a revolt you can put an army there real quick
Example for the middle east i used 3 armies 1 in Rum, 1 Syria & 1 in palestine with the other armies in egypt, constant & khazar. Seapower is the key to speed up your conquering.

[Pragmatic]

Okay, as the English. Hmmm, what would I do?

First off, secure your prime real estate. Capture Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. That gives you a good defensible start.

Take Flanders, then do everything in your power to get a ceasefire. (If the diplomacy was better, it'd let you suggest trades. For instance, I'd gladly trade Anjou and Normandy for Flanders.) Flanders is important because it leads into Wessex, and because of all the money. If necessary, sacrifice Anjou, Normany and Aquitaine.

After that, build up your navy. This is important because (at least as the human player) you can't do an amphibious assault through a sea province that has soon-to-be-enemy boats. Also, this gives you a chance to build up your trade revenue. And, finally, it opens the possibility of doing your own amphibious assaults.

Next area to attack would be Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. This is good because it gives you another front with only one province to defend. And if you bring enough troops for the assault, you can defeat the Danes quickly and avoid excommunication.

From there, I haven't a clue. I'm not all that good at completing games. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

If I had to guess, I'd say build up forces in Flanders (assuming you've lost your three French provinces already). Then, simultaneously, attack as many French provinces in one turn as possible. From Flanders and the Atlantic coast, you can hit Brittany, Normandy, Aquitaine, Ile de France, and Champagne. That leaves Toulouse and Anjou. If you've managed to hold onto your original three French provinces, you can wipe out the French in two turns. (Admittedly, you've got to have a SERIOUS drain on your treasury by this point.)

Problem is, at this point only your coastal provinces are safe from attack. Only Brittany and Normandy can't be attacked by the HRE, the Spanish/Almohads, and the Aragonese.

To narrow your front, you'll have to attack Navarre (probably already in the hands of the Spanish...) and Aragon next. Then the four German provinces bordering your territory. (Provence, Burgundy, Freisland, and Lorraine.) That leaves you seven territories where you can be attacked. (Denmark, Navarre, Aragon, Provence, Burgundy, Freisland, and Lorraine.) I'm going to assume it's hard to expand at this point. You've got two powerful neighbors to the south (Spanish and Almohads), a powerful and pissed-off neighbor to the east, and probably have the Pope rather upset at you....

[AndyH]

Like I said I've played the English, got 75
% of the map and then it all fell apart.

I took Wales by bribing - to get the long bows of course, Scotland on about turn 7, Flanders about 4 turns later, then ransomed the French king 2 turns late- kept having to do detours to put down rebellions.

Used Scotland to churn out highlanders.
Avoided getting excommunicated by waiting 10 more turns.
Then took out the remaining French provinces in 2 turns to avoid excommunication.

Churned out ships and surrounded Iberia.

Took out Aragon again in 2 turns. Married princesses to HRE and Italy at every opportunity.

Moved ships into the Baltic and took out Denmark in 2 turns.

Then Sweden and Norway.

Then took out Spain in 2 turns (they only had 2 provinces cos the Elmos had started squeezing them).

Churned out about 5 crusade crosses before starting to use the first one, I attacked the simplest target first. Jumping there the next turn (they suck a lot of men on the second year) I had 5 successful crusades in 5 years.

All of English, French , Aragonese, Danish,
Spanish and Almohad starting provinces plus a few neutral ones and we were only on 1150 or so.

I restocked with crosses and did the same to the Egyptians then the Turks and then the Byzantines.

I had over 250 knights to push against each new province and used Spain to churn out Bishops and spies to subdue the Muslim world.

I staged several attacks across Europe but never made it. Getting excommunicated really sucks and the Pope keeps coming back no matter how many times you kill him.

I ran out ouf ideas and never made it 100%.
Has anyone else got this far and stumbled???

[LittleGrizzly]

i got 60% of the map i have britian france and the danish provincs (and a 3 or 4 german provinces) then i went thru almohead terrortories and turkish and byzantine so basically i have germany and hungary left with me able to attack from all sides http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif (ohh and italy)

[TenkiSoratoti]

hmmm there will be help somewhere on the web

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"The good fighters of the old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an oppurtunity to defeat the enemy."