Ancient Fortifications (don't know where to ask)

[Metalstrm]

Sorry, feel free to move this topic if you feel like it, but since many historians seem to gather round this place, I thought maybe I should ask here.

I'm trying to create a collection of European city/town maps during the Roman era. Till now, I've only found a select few (obviously Rome and a couple here and there, along with the ancient cities in my country), and I'd like to have as many as possible, preferable during the mid-Republic phase but really anything would do, as long as we're talking Roman era. To be honest I'm mostly interested in the lines of ancient fortifications (city walls i.e.), as can be established through archaeology or ancient accounts, so I'm fine with city wall maps. Even hypothetical plans would do.

If anyone can point me to a website or a book that contains collections of such plans/maps I'd really appreciate it! (I just posted the same question in Roman-army.com)

[cmacq]

Do you have a list?

[Metalstrm]

No, but I was thinking major towns. So for example, starting with south Italy:

Syracuse,
Messana,
Lilybaeum,
Panormus,
Rhegium,
Croton,
Thurii,
Tarentum,
Brundisium,
Venusia,
Heraclea,
Paestum,
Buxentum,
Capua,
Beneventum,
Luceria,
Aquilonia... I could go on but you get the idea.

Obviously I don't expect to find them all, but the truth is that probably all ancient wall lines are known to some degree or other. I couldn't find a book that collects them together though.

[cmacq]

Right, let me have a look see?

[Metalstrm]

Thanks!

[Maeran]

Well here's one anyway.

Syracuse.

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Cities/SyracuseMap.jpg

[Metalstrm]

Well here's one anyway.

Syracuse.

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Cities/SyracuseMap.jpg

Beautiful! I have a couple of Syracuse but this one is the best for sure :)

[Metalstrm]

Anyone else, please?

[cmacq]

Lilybaeum?

https://plus6.safe-order.net/magellannarfe//Roman%20Domus%20Pics/lilybaeum.GIF

[Metalstrm]

Thanks :)

[hoom]

Its worth taking a look at some of these on Google Earth :)

Motya is notable for the underwater chariot path to the mainland from the north end.

Can still see the outline of the Roman line with the big square camps at Lilybaeum but I can't work out quite where the actual city would have been.
Supposedly the wall was extremely strong, it held off seiges from Syracuse, Phyrros & the Romans.
From the plan views I don't really see how this can be though

Eryx inland from Drepana has clouds on the photos but you can really see that its an amazingly strong position.

Agrigentum is pretty cool but you can't really see fortification.

Syracuse seems to have the biggest chunk of ancient fortification around, well worth a look, especially at the Euryalus fort at the western extremity, it was essentially impregnable & provided very strong flank protection to the gate just to the north.
The actual Ortigia part is all medieval castle now though.

Similarly Gadiz is out on the end of a long peninsular & would have been very strong though I've not been able to see any traces of the ancient fortifications.

Cartago Nova I've not really been able to work out where the ancient bits are, seems to be some infill in the harbour either by human landfill or just silting/alluvial action.

Supposedly Suguntum was very strong. Dodge has a nice plan of this in Hannibal.
Also some nice info on the walls of Carthage & plans of a bunch of the other cities there but eg Lilybaeum plan is clearly way off.

[Metalstrm]

Yes hoom I thought about it though I haven't really tried it out. The problem is that, most of the ancient fortifications are gone. Actually, I'll have a look now. You got me curious :)

But is it possible that nobody wrote a book about these collectively? I guess I'd have to look through all the journals to find what I want then..

[cmacq]

I already tried G-earth, its of little help.

[pezhetairoi]

I know I have a map of Locri somewhere. I'll go get it for you.

[cmacq]

Very Hires

Now here is a little better look at the ruins at Lilybaeum using Virt-Globetrotting. You can see this on G-earth, but not nearly as well.

http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/46901/view/?service=1

you may want to try this?

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=41.89001042401826~12.493600845336903&style=o&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=7473254&encType=1

use the small map in the upper right hand as a guide. this would make a nice little teaching tool.

[Metalstrm]

Thanks cmacq. The globetrotting map is not working properly for me though :( seems like most of the map is turning black randomly. The other one looks great though.

Someone's recommended me a French book on ancient Gaul fortifications, but obviously, I can't find it anywhere :| The good thing about Roman towns is that several of them were built around military camps and followed the same grid structure (if I'm not mistaken), so that would make the job easier for Roman-built settlements.

[Respenus]

I don't know if this might interest you, yet I have a good CD on Emona, the Roman settlement where Ljubljana now lies. I have some drawings, photos during excavations and I might find something more interesting if you wait till tomorrow.

Do tell me though, I don't know if you're even interested and the city was founded 14/15 AD by Emperor Augustus and then Travian, so it falls out of your middle Republic era.

[Metalstrm]

Thanks, I'd still like to have the drawings of the site plan if you have them :)