Nutrition Question

[Ice]

Alright, so lately, like I've said in other threads, I've been on an exercise and healthy eating kick. I'm not fat at all, but perfect healthy for my size/weight. What I'm looking to do is lose a bit of fat, build muscle, and just overall tone my body.

What I really need is advice on what/when/how much to eat during the day. I've read so much conflicting stuff that I'm curious to here knowledgeable input here.

[Strike For The South]

If your looking to do that it is going to be very diffucult building muscle and losing fat at the same time (Im not talking about OMG IM NOT 350 lbs anymore and can bench 115 lbs) For someone whose CNS is adapted to weight training and has a sub 18% bodyfat it is diffucult. What you need to do is this

1. Eat below your matinence level not allot lower but still lower

2. Cut as many carbs out as you can use them only for pre/post workout to give muscle much needed nutrients

3. Find foods that are low in calories and high in protien Tuna is the king of this I would also by a tub of whey a 2to1 caloire protien ratio is something you cant beat.

4. Lift heavy compund movements

[Ice]

If your looking to do that it is going to be very diffucult building muscle and losing fat at the same time (Im not talking about OMG IM NOT 350 lbs anymore and can bench 115 lbs) For someone whose CNS is adapted to weight training and has a sub 18% bodyfat it is diffucult. What you need to do is this

Well I've adapted to weight training pretty well, as I've been going 2-3 a week since mid January. The fat loss is minimal. I really just want to lose a few pounds on my gut so I can have a six pack.


1. Eat below your matinence level not allot lower but still lower

2. Cut as many carbs out as you can use them only for pre/post workout to give muscle much needed nutrients

3. Find foods that are low in calories and high in protien Tuna is the king of this I would also by a tub of whey a 2to1 caloire protien ratio is something you cant beat.

4. Lift heavy compund movements


2 and 3 is great advice. 3 is a bit obvious, but I've been reading stuff lately and you seem to confirm it with 2. Have you heard of carb loading with protein in the morning? I've read about carbs pre/post workout and in the morning.

[SwordsMaster]

Man, there is 1 and only 1 way to lose fat. To burn more calories than you take in.

Now, if you don't want to lose muscle also, keep the calorie intake about 2-300 cal below your daily burn, but no lower than that.

[Vladimir]

The only thing that has a higher calorie content than alcohol is fat. If you go to sleep intoxicated it also interferes with the production of chemicals which allow you to burn fat.

[BigTex]

SFTS is right about whey. One of the best ways to put on mass without having to down too many carbs and calories. I'd also suggest staying away from flax and soy protien, both contain estrogen.

If your looking to lean up and add mass, nothing beats creatine and whey in combination. Just make sure to drink plenty of water, if you start to cramp up your not drinking enough. Taurine and glutamine also come in handy.

Carbs are important even when your trying to lose wieght just make sure their low glucose carbs. They'll take awhile to digest but provide more energy in the long run, plus far fewer calories.

Also if your puting on alot of mass I'd suggest using an antaganistic wieght lifting routine so you don't lose your flexibility.

[naut]

... creatine ...
I was under the impression that creatine just increased water retention?

Doesn't body-type have a large influence in muscle growth etcetera. I know for me personally it is pretty much impossible for me to gain toned upper body muscles even if I workout regularly. It just doesn't work. However, my lower body gets muscle growth much more easily. :shrug:


The fat loss is minimal. I really just want to lose a few pounds on my gut so I can have a six pack.
A mate of mine has a six pack and he doesn't even work out. And yet back in my final year of school when I would workout regularly I could never get any substantial muscle toning there even though my fat percentage would be around 6%. Anyway good luck with the ab muscles.

[Beirut]

Also if your puting on alot of mass I'd suggest using an antaganistic wieght lifting routine so you don't lose your flexibility.

Antagonistic? You mean like having your wife yell at you while you're doing push ups?

Wait a second... ~:rolleyes: Hmmmmmm.

[Strike For The South]

SFTS is right about whey. One of the best ways to put on mass without having to down too many carbs and calories. I'd also suggest staying away from flax and soy protien, both contain estrogen.

If your looking to lean up and add mass, nothing beats creatine and whey in combination. Just make sure to drink plenty of water, if you start to cramp up your not drinking enough. Taurine and glutamine also come in handy.

Carbs are important even when your trying to lose wieght just make sure their low glucose carbs. They'll take awhile to digest but provide more energy in the long run, plus far fewer calories.

Also if your puting on alot of mass I'd suggest using an antaganistic wieght lifting routine so you don't lose your flexibility.

Well a couple of things. He doesnt need a whole bunch of supps and weight lifiting and flexibiblty do not go hand an hand.

[SwordsMaster]

Antagonistic? You mean like having your wife yell at you while you're doing push ups?

Wait a second... ~:rolleyes: Hmmmmmm.

Shouldn't you be doing pushups with your wife? :yes:

[Ice]

SFTS is right about whey. One of the best ways to put on mass without having to down too many carbs and calories. I'd also suggest staying away from flax and soy protien, both contain estrogen.

If your looking to lean up and add mass, nothing beats creatine and whey in combination. Just make sure to drink plenty of water, if you start to cramp up your not drinking enough. Taurine and glutamine also come in handy.

Carbs are important even when your trying to lose wieght just make sure their low glucose carbs. They'll take awhile to digest but provide more energy in the long run, plus far fewer calories.

Also if your puting on alot of mass I'd suggest using an antaganistic wieght lifting routine so you don't lose your flexibility.

Don't really want to put creatine into my body. I'd rather do this in a more natural way, although I do take a multi which includes about 150 mg of amino acids two being taurine and gluatamine.

[Ice]

A mate of mine has a six pack and he doesn't even work out. And yet back in my final year of school when I would workout regularly I could never get any substantial muscle toning there even though my fat percentage would be around 6%. Anyway good luck with the ab muscles.

A lot of it is genetics. My one friend eats like crap, and do mean crap, and has a six pack.

I eat sparingly and fairly healthy diet, and I'm much stalker than he is. Good old genetics.

[LeftEyeNine]

Yay, I agree with genetics taking the biggest role in body-building stuff. I have deltoids and pectorals defined -no, I never worked them out. My cousin is an ordinary guy who has a well-built upper body without ever working out to it.

[Rhyfelwyr]

A lot of it is genetics. My one friend eats like crap, and do mean crap, and has a six pack.

I eat sparingly and fairly healthy diet, and I'm much stalker than he is. Good old genetics.

I'm not even sure how much of it is down to genetics. I used to eat a hell of a lot of crap, and not even a decent piece of food passed my lips. All KFC, Chippie stuff etc. And yet I'm still skinny. Not in a healthy way, but I can't seem to get any fat on me.:shrug:

Meanwhile one of my brothers always ate OK, and yet he's a bit podgy.:shrug:

In fact I'm pretty small for my age. My youngest brother wanted a DVD today (I am Legend, its a 15). So I went to get it for him, and the person at the till woudn't let me get it. And I am 18! :no:

[Ice]

I'm not even sure how much of it is down to genetics. I used to eat a hell of a lot of crap, and not even a decent piece of food passed my lips. All KFC, Chippie stuff etc. And yet I'm still skinny. Not in a healthy way, but I can't seem to get any fat on me.:shrug:

Meanwhile one of my brothers always ate OK, and yet he's a bit podgy.:shrug:

In fact I'm pretty small for my age. My youngest brother wanted a DVD today (I am Legend, its a 15). So I went to get it for him, and the person at the till woudn't let me get it. And I am 18! :no:

Just grow facial hair. I stopped being carded.

[Strike For The South]

Gentics play a role yes but you cannot let that limit in what your goals are. ICE write down your workouts and what you eat everyday it helps loads

[ReiseReise]

Just grow facial hair. I stopped being carded.

Receding hairline did it for me. :laugh4:

[Papewaio]

1 To decrease body fat you need to consume less calories then you use.
2 To increase muscle mass you need to work the muscles and eat protein and carbs and some fats (omega-3s) to help build the muscle.

1 and 2 tend to contradict each other. Bodybuilders tend to have a large calorie intake to build up muscle mass, they also put on fat too. Then they trim down and define.

Building up the large muscle groups (particularly legs as they often get overlooked) will build up more muscle quicker then say building up stablisers and smaller muscles (including the bicep).

So I would say go 6 weeks and build up the big muscles groups.
And then 6 weeks of muscle maintenance with more cardio working out.

[Beirut]

So what's the deal if you work out but don't take in enough protein and/or calories?

[naut]

So what's the deal if you work out but don't take in enough protein and/or calories?
Anorexia??

[LeftEyeNine]

So what's the deal if you work out but don't take in enough protein and/or calories?

Yes endurance, no power.

Skinny guys with defined muscles may amaze at their capabilities from time to time.

[BigTex]

I was under the impression that creatine just increased water retention?

One of the effects of high doses of creatine is to increase the water retention in muscles, yes. But that is not only thing it does. There's quite alot of research out there about what it does. One of the main things is to increase the rate of skeletal muscle growth and increase the brains abiltiy to remember things. The memory increasing effects are quite interesting, there was a more recent study done with vegetarians taking mild doses, the memory gains were incredible. It's a wonderful little amino acid :2thumbsup: .


Don't really want to put creatine into my body. I'd rather do this in a more natural way, although I do take a multi which includes about 150 mg of amino acids two being taurine and gluatamine.

Your going to be hard pressed to find a whey mix without it in there.

You'll be suprised at how much faster your recovery times are when using glutamine and tuarine.


1 To decrease body fat you need to consume less calories then you use.
2 To increase muscle mass you need to work the muscles and eat protein and carbs and some fats (omega-3s) to help build the muscle.

Beautiful advice, you cannot bulk when you are minimizing. Only difference I'd say is while minimizing is to stick to power lifting, not going all the way down to endurance lifting and lots of cardio.

When bulking try to take in around 20-30% protien in every meal. You'll add alot of weight but your going to be adding loads of muscle and ramping your metabolism up. So burning off the excess fat will be much simpler. When minimizing don't go crazy, cut just below what you need, your not trying to starve yourself.


So what's the deal if you work out but don't take in enough protein and/or calories?

Pain, lots and lots of pain. Not to mention your body will burn muscle before fat. Going on an anorexic binge is a good way to add more to your overall body fat % and lose tons of your strength and mass.

As a side note alot of problems with having a defined 6 pack can be caused by a high sodium diet. You may try cuting down on the salt a bit, should decrease the amount of excess water in your system and help to define your muscles more.

[Strike For The South]

BigTex I dunno what youre buying but whey shouldnt have creatine in it

Ice what does your routinge look likke?

[Vladimir]

BigTex I dunno what youre buying but whey shouldnt have creatine in it

Ice what does your routinge look likke?


Routinge (http://www.google.com/search?q=routinge+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a).


Here you go: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/?utm_id=Q108&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&gclid=CPadie_7gJMCFSIwlgodTFVkGA

[Beirut]

Pain, lots and lots of pain. Not to mention your body will burn muscle before fat. Going on an anorexic binge is a good way to add more to your overall body fat % and lose tons of your strength and mass.


Good Lord, I'm not on an anorexic binge, it's just that sometimes I realize I haven't eaten much other than fish, rice, and veggies for days and have done a lot of physical work. I'm still in winter weight mode, so I have a few to lose, but I'm not always sure what the best intake is. For what it's worth, I do eat very good quality food. Everything (almost) is whole grain, bio, low fat, low sugar, low salt. Lots of sardines, brown basmati rice, hummus, fruit, veggies, yaddah-yaddah. But this doesn't mean a lot of (enough?) calories sometimes.

[Vladimir]

Good Lord, I'm not on an anorexic binge, it's just that sometimes I realize I haven't eaten much other than fish, rice, and veggies for days and have done a lot of physical work. I'm still in winter weight mode, so I have a few to lose, but I'm not always sure what the best intake is. For what it's worth, I do eat very good quality food. Everything (almost) is whole grain, bio, low fat, low sugar, low salt. Lots of sardines, brown basmati rice, hummus, fruit, veggies, yaddah-yaddah. But this doesn't mean a lot of (enough?) calories sometimes.

Well Mr. Survivorman (a Canadian) says you'll burn fat first. The guy usually starves for a week while burning about 5,000 calories a day.

[BigTex]

Good Lord, I'm not on an anorexic binge, it's just that sometimes I realize I haven't eaten much other than fish, rice, and veggies for days and have done a lot of physical work. I'm still in winter weight mode, so I have a few to lose, but I'm not always sure what the best intake is. For what it's worth, I do eat very good quality food. Everything (almost) is whole grain, bio, low fat, low sugar, low salt. Lots of sardines, brown basmati rice, hummus, fruit, veggies, yaddah-yaddah. But this doesn't mean a lot of (enough?) calories sometimes.


If your niether gaining or losing much then your taking in the right amount of calories. Fish is a great generally, high in protien low in fats and not many carbs. Not to say carbs arent neccessary, but they are there for energy. Keep them to the morning and day time when you'll actually burn them. As for how much protien you need in a day, if your trying to build muscle and active then around 1.2-2.0g of protien per kilo of body wieght is about the maximum any research has shown to be effective.

Formula for pound to kilo is lb/2.2=kilo.

For a solid 180lb middle wieght, you'd need to be getting in the range of 98 to 163g of protien in a day. Own personal opinion is to go for the 163g a day, but anything in that range is effective and will let you build at a decent rate.

Also forgot to mention calcium. Get plenty of it, it will help you lose body fat. More and more research is linking low calcium intakes to obestity. Yogurt is a great source, and has a decent amount of protien and carbs in it.

[SwordsMaster]

Well, you see, he burns fat, because he uses the muscle. Muscle gain+muscle loss = net musle stays the same. Fat however he doesn't recover.

Don't worry Beirut, fish is an excellend source of protein and fatty acids, so don't worry too much aboutnot getting enough.

[Beirut]

For a solid 180lb middle wieght, you'd need to be getting in the range of 98 to 163g of protien in a day. Own personal opinion is to go for the 163g a day, but anything in that range is effective and will let you build at a decent rate.

I'm 5'11" and 190 is just about perfect for me with a low body-fat content. Anything over 190 is just extra beefcake for the womenfolk. ~:smoking:


Also forgot to mention calcium. Get plenty of it, it will help you lose body fat. More and more research is linking low calcium intakes to obestity. Yogurt is a great source, and has a decent amount of protien and carbs in it.

Really? No problem there. Lots of 1% biological milk on the daily cereal. I'd prefer the 3.8% but she digresses.


SwordsMaster,

Beauty. Thanks.

[Papewaio]

Just so the obvious doesn't get overlooked.

Water.

It really is a vital part of ones diet. If you are dehydrated your metabolism slows down quite a lot. Keep hydrated (water, milk, smoothies, green tea etc) and you will burn more fat even when passive. Also hydration helps us cope with the heat (obvious) and the cold (wasn't so obvious to me).

[naut]

One of the effects of high doses of creatine is to increase the water retention in muscles, yes. But that is not only thing it does. There's quite alot of research out there about what it does. One of the main things is to increase the rate of skeletal muscle growth and increase the brains abiltiy to remember things. The memory increasing effects are quite interesting, there was a more recent study done with vegetarians taking mild doses, the memory gains were incredible. It's a wonderful little amino acid :2thumbsup: .Doesn't it increase hyper-tension though?

[BigTex]

Doesn't it increase hyper-tension though?

In theory long term constant high doses could cause hypertension. Don't know if any study has actually proven it. But still it requires constant heavy dosing. With creatine you usually load for 4-7 days only once a month, and then nothing else. The halflife of creatine is pretty long in your system. The real problems with it are massive muscle cramping and kidney pains from not drinking enough water with it.

Also with monohydrate, and a couple others, if the crystals don't dissolve completely in the solution it can lead to some stomach and intestinal cramping. Can't say that it personally was ever that bad, kept you from wanting to eat for a few hours but thats about it.

[Ice]

BigTex I dunno what youre buying but whey shouldnt have creatine in it

Ice what does your routinge look likke?

3x 10 reps

One day
Bench Press
Isolateral Incline Press
Cable Cross
Shoulder Excercise
Shoulder Exercise
Triceps curls on machine
Decline situps with weight
Sometimes run 1.5 miles after

3x 10 reps
Pullups
Lower Back
Isolateral Back Exercise
Bicep Curls with Bar
Decline Situps
Sometimes run 1.5 miles after

I don't remember the names of the exercises.

Edit: Added Tris.

[BigTex]

No tricep or leg work ice?

[Ice]

No tricep or leg work ice?

I forgot about Triceps. Yes I do them.

I don't do leg, though. I know I should, but I just can't motivated to do them.

[Strike For The South]

3x 10 reps

One day
Bench Press
Isolateral Incline Press
Cable Cross
Shoulder Excercise
Shoulder Exercise
Triceps curls on machine
Decline situps with weight
Sometimes run 1.5 miles after

3x 10 reps
Pullups
Lower Back
Isolateral Back Exercise
Bicep Curls with Bar
Decline Situps
Sometimes run 1.5 miles after

I don't remember the names of the exercises.

Edit: Added Tris.

This routine makes baby jesus cry. Im dead tired right now but ill help tmrw.


I don't do leg, though. I know I should, but I just can't motivated to do them

Youre fixin to get motivated:whip:

[Papewaio]

Okay your legs are about half your total body mass. The rest of your body has internal organs brain, kidney, lungs, heart etc.

The legs on the other hand are bone, tendons and muscle. Your legs can generate roughly 5 times as much force as your arms. Another way to think about that is for 20% of the effort you can get the same gain through your legs. To easily get lean you need to include your legs. You can put on 5 kilos of muscle on your legs as easily as putting 1 kg on your arms. That muscle will then chew through fat on your body.