View Full Version : I was excomminucated!
Bilbo of Bag End
10-07-2002, 13:50
What a load of crap! I was attacked by fellow Christians, then I was reprimanded by the Pope for fighting back. After pushing into my aggressors territory, I was excommunicated!
Good thing the Papacy crumbled soon after.....
Influence plays a big part in whether you or your opponenet gets excommunicated. So does the size of your empire (i.e. a big empire fighting a small one will get the bigger one excommunicated...usually)
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It's getting warm in here...that must be one hell of an INFERNO!
2 common reason that I can think of:
- You are stronger than the other faction.
- You have a history of agressive behaviour toward other Catholic factions. The Pope keeps track of that.
To avoid excommed for attacking other Catholic factions:
- Complete the invasion within 2 years. You must remove all enemy force in the province.
- Don't invade the same faction within 10 years.
Third alternative is to remove the Pope, but he will come back really soon.
Bob the Insane
10-07-2002, 15:09
It's not supposed to be fair....
Sometime its intrigue, Catholic factions with a better relationship to the Pope attack you and get away with it...
I don't think it is cheating particularly, just luck on the attacking faction's part.
I am play a GA game on hard as the Danish, and we are the only active Catholic faction which has not been excommunicated...
The Spanish (AI) have been regularly excommicated within 3 years of a a new King or Pope for pretty much the whole game...
EuroLord
10-07-2002, 15:54
Hi all,
Thanks for that I was going to post on this subject myself. Good answers.
EuroLord
chunkynut
10-07-2002, 16:34
I (unlike some http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ) realise that things happened ... unfairly in the times we are playing in. But i would like to be informed that it was unfair and then it would feel so bad http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif.
eg
Hungary and Poland are my (HRE) allies, I share borders with Hungary, Poland wages war on Hungary, (now two things against Poland behind the scenes, Im at war with Danes and have a very fortified border with Italy (due to past transgressions), and i get alot of polish spies in my teritories).
Summary side with Hungary i dont have the troops to carve up hungary with poland so i ignore the conflict.
5 Years latter poland sues for peace and the Novograd (allies with hungary) wage war against me. Hungary join in even tho in the five years our borders have more armies on my side.
What i would like is a spy message maybe? saying (when you get the choose allies screen) Hungary would, in the same situation, choose against you.
Or somthing like that, and hints when nations my attack your ships etc.
Obviously there must be some surprise attacks but you have to bear in mind that the observation systems that were employed by rulers where in alot of cases vast, and early warning would happen.
And thus to the point i would like a spy message saying 'This will/will not endear you to the Pope the gutless swine'.
I understand this is far to late for the patch and probably for MTW all in all, but i liked the Daimyo notes in STW, like will backstab or consolidate and hold a grudge etc.
Well thats my two pence http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by chunkynut (edited 10-07-2002).]
This has been covered more times than I care to remember...
But what longjohn said in a very elaborate thread was basically this:
If you are more than double (he said it was around this) the size of the enemy then you will get the warning no matter who attacks.
If you are attacked by a smaller faction and you are not sure you can win the battle, retreat out of the province, for you will get the warning and if you can't lift the siege in time (the two years but you have to take back the province at once), then you will get excommunicated.
This means you can't sally out of a castle if the time is past the warning.
This has nothing to do with fair, but making sure no Catholics are too strong.
Remember that the Pope only keeps track of one warning/excomm at any time, so if the HRE (most likely) get excommed you can go about killing smaller factions as you like.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Emperor Romanus IV
10-15-2002, 19:13
Don't know if this was covered but i would be thankful 4 any help,but if u r excommunicated,i was excommunicated as the french (normal) when i tried to recover france from the english,how do u get communicated,4 want of a better word,again?Without taking the papal states of cos.
And what difference does it make if u r excommunicated?I mean yeah i know u're prey to other catholic factions,but apart from that is there any other penalty?
I read that there would be rebellions in the provinces u own when u get excommunicated,but so far,no rebellions has occurred.
In fact if there r no other problems other than the fact that other catholics will attack u,what's the big deal abt being excommunicated?I've played only the byzantines b4,so i've never had to worry abt these problems.
Thanks 4 yer insights and answers.
LittleGrizzly
10-15-2002, 19:47
i found excommunication to be no problem at all it happens my christian allys refuse to crusade against me and my povinces dont rebel (boder forts a keep and 400 peasents stop that)
Sword_Monkey
10-15-2002, 23:27
I'm still trying to figure out what the downside to excommunication is. Everyone still trades with you. I've yet to see anyone break an alliance because of it, although I have had a hard time making new ones. The only danger seems to be the Crusade issue and that only applies when you're small and tiny. So, play nice the first 75 years and then do whatever you want. Besides, with the abyssmal pathfinding for the Crusades, odds are your king or the Pope will have died, reinstating you as a good Catholic nation, long before it ever reaches your border.
Besides the role playing side of things, is there something I'm missing with playing nice with the man in the funny hat?
I think the loyalty drops upon excommunication, especially in the provinces with high zeal. I also have some suspicions that it's a cumulative thing, that the loyalty drop increases over the years. I know that you can get christian revolts. But these are only my impressions.
Sword_Monkey
10-16-2002, 11:12
I think you're right that it affects loyalty, but between the fact that I build churches in all my provinces, monasteries in many, and have at least one bishop in every province, plus inquisitors where heretics are an issue, plus a spy everywhere, plus border forts, plus a small garrison in every province, and so on, just not finding the negative side overall. Loyalty is still maxed in most provinces, or very high in the others. I supply their religious needs so I guess having the Pope mad just doesn't bother them much (must be American Catholics in my game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif)
Emperor Romanus IV
10-16-2002, 11:31
Thanx 4 all yer kind insights and advice,but i've another question.According to Kraxis, the pope can only keep track of one excommunicated province.So that means after one guy is excommunicated,other catholic factions can attack other catholic factions with impunity and not get into any trouble with the pope?
And how does one know if another province is excommunicated.As the Byzantines i've never got any media update abt catholics being excommunicated.So now as the catholic French,
will i be told if some catholic province is excommunicated?
One of the funniest things to happen in my
Polish Extreme campaign was that the
Hungarians invaded one of my provinces,
and I got the warning. Three years later,
they assaulted the castle (and got a sound
trashing) for which the Pope excommuniated
me. My population was loyal enough not to
rebel, and one of my star assassins was lucky
enough to stick a dagger in the fat pig's
belly, so it was no big deal, but still...
In any case, that was the end of my love
affair with the Catholics. Now I am allied
with the Bizantines, and we are carving up
Europe. They have been very good so far
at keeping the Pope down. I just wish I
could switch my religion to Orthodox with a
royal edict. The Bulgarians did that at
some point, didn't they?
Loyalty drops like a fly when you get excommed...
It is especially funny to use Spies when an enemy is excommed, then the rebellions they cause are all Catholics. Great! Instead of weak rebellions of loads of Peasants you see knights, men-at-arms and sergeants.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
AgentBif
10-17-2002, 04:12
Quote Originally posted by pdoan8:
Third alternative is to remove the Pope, but he will come back really soon.[/QUOTE]
One trick I saw someone post a while back was to take Rome and then let it rebel. Apparently the Pope doesn't return then...
bif
Sword_Monkey
10-17-2002, 04:22
Quote Originally posted by Kraxis:
Loyalty drops like a fly when you get excommed...[/QUOTE]
Does it affect different factions differently then? I've only played the English so far and my people apparently could care less what the Pope thinks.
Thane Talain MacDonald
10-17-2002, 04:46
That's the english for you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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