View Full Version : Creative Assembly Respawn Thousands of em!
Fearless
10-16-2002, 15:04
Hi all.... hopefully someone out there can help with a little problem. Here is the scenario set at hard.
Conquered half of Europe and all the south. Tax set at normal throughout. Spies, emissaries, assassins and priest etc. in each of the provinces. Loyalty at 200%. Minimum of 500 troops per province. Things looking good eh!..............Suddenely WHAM!! Almohads re-emerge in their lands! not just a few but bloody thousands! top notch troops 16 units plus each region. 4 regions respawned in the south. Now what the hell is this!.........checked everything the only downside is that zeal was at 0%......... I love rebellions and faction respawns but this is ridiculous. Having held the lands succesfully for sometime I am lost for words on this! A truly great game being ruined by nonsense!!
Comments please.
Fearless
I have loved the stars to fondly to be afraid of the night!
MonkeyMan
10-16-2002, 15:24
these thing seem almost random. If you have a previous save and you releod it, they will either not emerge or will re-emerge in differnet strength. If it's really going to ruin me i do tend to re-load, some of the re-emerged armies can be huge.
this has happened to me as well. playing as english owned most of europe and the french reappeared 50 years after i wiped the out. basic result ruined my whole game. i've stoped playing until the patch comes out to fix this.
Quote Originally posted by kaevad:
this has happened to me as well. playing as english owned most of europe and the french reappeared 50 years after i wiped the out. basic result ruined my whole game. i've stoped playing until the patch comes out to fix this.[/QUOTE]
I hope there won't be any patch because this 'nonsense' clearly makes sense :
- historically ; do you think england or any other faction could have put stalinian population control techniques in 1300 to prevent upraisings? Why are you surprised, when clearly 'dissapeared factions' did reemerge throughout history (the poles coming to mind)? No empire ever achieved domination on such a scale (europe wise), so the only 'nonsensical' aspect is that it's still very easy to achieve in MTW, even on expert.
- Game wise : end games would be dead boring without it. Once you reach critical mass, nobody but micromanagement boredom can prevent you from total domination. Faction reemergence brings a new dynamism.
If your point is to cover the map in red and claim you're the king of the world, either play in easy or deal with revolts.
But this discussion already went on in 567 threads before, the consensus being that faction respawn should be optional (inside a hardman option for example).
Fearless
10-16-2002, 16:14
A good point Maroule and I am more than happy with this. But where did these factions get such a lot of money to produce elite troops that no other faction can actually build at that time. Bring on 15,000 peasants and archers this I'll accept but elite troops I'm surprised they didn't have tanks!!
Fearless
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I see your point, but these are times of feodality : aside from the king, power is distributed among different barons, lords, dukes, and whatever, each of whom had historically strong armies they were 'lending' to the king when he was calling them
so what you have there is a heir prooving his descent and requiring barons of his late fathers to help him. Which building they use to churn out siege units and top cav is anybodies guess, but it makes it more of a challenge
Fearless
10-16-2002, 17:05
I see your point, but these are times of feodality : aside from the king, power is distributed among different barons, lords, dukes, and whatever, each of whom had historically strong armies they were 'lending' to the king when he was calling them
so what you have there is a heir prooving his descent and requiring barons of his late fathers to help him. Which building they use to churn out siege units and top cav is anybodies guess, but it makes it more of a challenge[/B][/QUOTE]
Okay I see your point............well wish me LUCK!!....................CHAAAAAAARGE!!!!!...FOR KING AND COUNTRY!!!!
MonkeyMan
10-16-2002, 17:09
I think the main thing in the patch is the quality of the units, some are almost all royal/chivalric knights, that simply can't be built yet. I like the idea of fighting uprisings with thousands of peasants and low quality troops with only a hard core of good generals and tough units but when an army stronger than your entire empire wide one, consisting of only elite units appears it's really frustrating.
Fearless
10-16-2002, 17:26
We can only hope that if CA have not solved the problem in the patch then one of those computer programming whizz kids that bring there expertise and knowledge to this forum will solve the problem!...............The potential for this game is awesome!! Have you checked out the medieval file downloads, starting to look impressive.
i got nothing against the up risings, its just the quality of the units. they are too uber and riun the game because of it. peasants, archers, spearmen etc, then thats fine, but not chiv knights etc
There is Def a trigger that causes rebels when you get to big.
In my current campaign though I just went to war with the now Mid Power Golden Horde (I let them go). And I ended up having my first rebellion ever. I had a garrison of Arquebusiers, and two Saracen Inf. Agaist full stack of Peasants. I was like OH OH. But my two units of Saracen totally destroyed those Peasant armies. My Arquebusiers were hurt. Lost most of them! And I only lost about 30 Saracen total. The peasants lost over 700. WOW. Anyway I had to reinforce a bunch of my providences because when I went to war with the golden hord a bunch of them went below the 200% mark.
Also my first battle with the Golden horde was asome. To bad replays dont work yet because it was asome. Well over hour long 1000's of troops. Waves of Horde horsemen Held at bay with My Pavise Arbalests and Saracen Inf. Asome. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by malkuth (edited 10-16-2002).]
Fearless
10-16-2002, 19:23
Here! Here!..............I only hope someone out there reads this and acts upon it...........Bring on the Hordes of pheasants, archers, spearman.........and maybe a couple of units of early mounted. Me with 500 troops, the uprising with several thousand at least we have a chance. I would rather die with a fighting chance than no chance!!!.................DEATH & GLORY we love it!
eat cold steel
10-16-2002, 20:27
Wait for the patched. Rebellions reworked.
Bob the Insane
10-16-2002, 20:41
In one game as the Turkish I helped out the Egyptians by wipping them out withing the first 15 years (mercenaries are great http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif)..
2 years later they re-emerged in 5 of their original provinces with more and better troops than then ever had before...
One army was of 16 units of Ghulam Bodyguards, I didn't see that coming....
[This message has been edited by Bob the Insane (edited 10-16-2002).]
Shumeisan
10-16-2002, 20:43
Yes #55 of improvements in the list of fixes adressed by the patch.
I had a similar pb with french and a 21 Turks Ghulams rebellion (with some other troops - 2 armies) in Edesse.
My adventure in middle-east ended quickly for a while as I let the Byz handle this amazing heir http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Fearless
10-17-2002, 16:07
Thank you for the good news Eat Cold Steel. Look forward to the new rebellions!!
Yes, we want pheasants in rebellions!!! And quails, if possible. And then we'll see who's a chicken around here!!
Where is Cyricist, he will bring some calvary as well, and we'll have Turkey for dinner then!!!
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
[This message has been edited by hrvojej (edited 10-17-2002).]
Fearless
10-17-2002, 17:07
Forget the Quails.............There elite! I lost 16 units of pre-pack when I went up against them!!
The Green Knight
10-17-2002, 17:15
I reckon one startegy would be not to wipe out a faction but leave it in a very weak state.
Fearless
10-17-2002, 17:24
Quote Originally posted by The Green Knight:
I reckon one startegy would be not to wipe out a faction but leave it in a very weak state.[/QUOTE]
Now that is worth giving a try!. Maybe it would prevent mass respawning. Leaving a faction with just enough to keep them happy.............interesting!
Quote Originally posted by Bob the Insane:
In one game as the Turkish I helped out the Egyptians by wipping them out withing the first 15 years (mercenaries are great http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif)..
[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I wanna hear what you whipped out at the egyptians - involving men for hire... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
yes! Yes!! YES!!! REBELLIONS REWORKED! When the patch comes out, I can quit my job and play MTW full time. Luckily, the way it's going, I'll probably be working until Xmas...
Quote Originally posted by The Green Knight:
I reckon one startegy would be not to wipe out a faction but leave it in a very weak state.[/QUOTE]
I'm using this strategy in my campaign and it works up to a point. However, sometimes the faction deliberately launches a suicide attack intent of finishing itself off and on one occassion Turkey got eliminated by an internal rebellion.
Still it limits the extent of the problem.
------------------
Didz
Fortis balore et armis
cin.Thrawn
10-17-2002, 18:18
DON'T GIVE UP
KEEP PLAYING
IS FUN.
Just curious Eat Cold Steel, what were the reasoning process and discussion progression behind the current state of rebellions? It almost seems as though you guys had no experience of the frustrations of gamers for such games, although with the excellent Shogun, that isnt true!
Is the patch going to fix a) invisible killer heirs of heirs of heirs of immature invisible heirs with a monkey load of armies and
b) the twitchy and fishy idea of rebellions and unrest exploding outwards like a half digested chilli meal?
It seems that alot of people miss the point about rebellions and Faction re-emergence.
It's not just down to the loyalty of the province but your Kings influence throughout his lands.
As a test get a high influence king running your empire, make him attack somewhere far away where he will end up isolated from empire if the port is destroyed, then watch the revolts happen.
I did this playing as Turks, attacked Scotland from Antioch with my 9 Influence King, took the province and wham next turn about 12 provinces has peasent/christian uprisings even though loyalty was high and had reasonably large forces in all provinces.
So remember don't underestimate your Kings influence!
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