Controversial art piece removed from exhibition

[Quirinus]

In the tradition of "Artist or Despicable Scumbag (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=102296)" and "Ultimate Fighting Jesus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=102537)", comes gay Jesus and his Apostles (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-7334.html).

I know the news is a bit old, but I'd like to know your opinions on this. Artist? Despicable scumbag? Somewhere in between?

(P.S. Before someone jumps on me for being a secular liberal bastard (cough) or something, I'm just relaying a piece of news.)

[Kagemusha]

Just another sad excuse of a sensationalist. I long for time when artist´s still tried to create something which was meant to please the senses of the viewer, it seems these days most of the poor artist have to do with trying to shock people and feel that they are somehow unique because they have done so. To put it short, this is kind of sad excuse for art.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Just making up for their lack of talent by using some cheap tricks to get attention. At least all he's harming is the canvas, no big deal.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I agree with Kage. Shock replaces talent, like the Paris Hiltons of art.

CR

[Viking]

In the tradition of "Artist or Despicable Scumbag (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=102296)" and "Ultimate Fighting Jesus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=102537)", comes gay Jesus and his Apostles (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-7334.html).

I know the news is a bit old, but I'd like to know your opinions on this. Artist? Despicable scumbag? Somewhere in between?

(P.S. Before someone jumps on me for being a secular liberal bastard (cough) or something, I'm just relaying a piece of news.)

To be honest, I cannot see why I should be anything but indifferent. Art sux anyway, ahem.

[Tribesman]

Damn you Quirinus , I was saving that story with all the death threats and bomb threats for the next "its only muslims that do that :daisy:" topic :furious3:

[Adrian II]

Damn you Quirinus , I was saving that story with all the death threats and bomb threats for the next "its only muslims that do that :daisy:" topic :furious3:Oh yeah, I hear that Evangelical suicide bombers are lining up in front of the Cardinals' office day and night while angry Catholics from Malta to Rhode Island are burning Austrian flags.

In other words: utter bollox (to quote one of your own darlings). Have you been drinking or something?

Primo. This is a purely Roman Catholic issue. The piece was exhibited in a prestigeous Roman Catholic museum with the full knowledge of the director, in whose words 'no special reason is required for a church museum to dedicate an exhibition to the most important living sculptor, even if he is a Marxist and an atheist.' In the end the cardinal decided against some of the pieces because he judged them to be offensive. He's entitled to that; after all it's his cathedral. So unless you come up with at least one example of a Muslim clerical institute with a similarly open mind with regard to an provocative atheist homosexual artist, your comparison hasn't a single leg to stand on.

Secundo. No bombs have been laid, no film directors murdered in broad daylight, no flags burnt and no violent demonstrations held with signs saying 'Death to the infidel!' The cardinal has not issued a death warrant or put a few million euro on Mr Hrdlicka's head. No Protestant leader has called for a boycott of Catholic goods, no Catholic has called for the burning of homosexuals. Indeed, no one has been stoned. There goes your chance at a second leg to support your comparison.

Of course some whacko websites in the U.S. have made violent threats, something that happens every day in every country with more than 3 cizitens connected to the Internet. Now put me in a dress, slap my tush and call me Nancy, but somehow I think that isn't quite the same thing as blowing up sky scrapers, subway lines or train stations.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Oh yeah, I hear that Evangelical suicide bombers are lining up in front of the Cardinals' office day and night while angry Catholics from Malta to Rhode Island are burning Austrian flags.

In other words: utter bollox (to quote one of your own darlings). Have you been drinking or something?

Primo. This is a purely Roman Catholic issue. The piece was exhibited in a prestigeous Roman Catholic museum with the full knowledge of the director, in whose words 'no special reason is required for a church museum to dedicate an exhibition to the most important living sculptor, even if he is a Marxist and an atheist.' In the end the cardinal decided against some of the pieces because he judged them to be offensive. He's entitled to that; after all it's his cathedral. So unless you come up with at least one example of a Muslim clerical institute with a similarly open mind with regard to an provocative atheist homosexual artist, your comparison hasn't a single leg to stand on.

Secundo. No bombs have been laid, no film directors murdered in broad daylight, no flags burnt and no violent demonstrations held with signs saying 'Death to the infidel!' The cardinal has not issued a death warrant or put a few million euro on Mr Hrdlicka's head. No Protestant leader has called for a boycott of Catholic goods, no Catholic has called for the burning of homosexuals. Indeed, no one has been stoned. There goes your chance at a second leg to support your comparison.

Of course some whacko websites in the U.S. have made violent threats, something that happens every day in every country with more than 3 cizitens connected to the Internet. Now put me in a dress, slap my tush and call me Nancy, but somehow I think that isn't quite the same thing as blowing up sky scrapers, subway lines or train stations.

:applause:

[BananaBob]

Meh. Mediocre at best. Its still art, just kind of lamely painted. Not really shocking either.

Their is a zombie apostles picture floating around somewhere, saying 'When they eat the body of Christ, THEY EAT THE BODY OF CHRIST'.

EDIT: Removed hotlinked and unnecessarily offensive picture. BG

If your a devout Christian you will be offended.

[Ice]

Oh yeah, I hear that Evangelical suicide bombers are lining up in front of the Cardinals' office day and night while angry Catholics from Malta to Rhode Island are burning Austrian flags.

In other words: utter bollox (to quote one of your own darlings). Have you been drinking or something?

Primo. This is a purely Roman Catholic issue. The piece was exhibited in a prestigeous Roman Catholic museum with the full knowledge of the director, in whose words 'no special reason is required for a church museum to dedicate an exhibition to the most important living sculptor, even if he is a Marxist and an atheist.' In the end the cardinal decided against some of the pieces because he judged them to be offensive. He's entitled to that; after all it's his cathedral. So unless you come up with at least one example of a Muslim clerical institute with a similarly open mind with regard to an provocative atheist homosexual artist, your comparison hasn't a single leg to stand on.

Secundo. No bombs have been laid, no film directors murdered in broad daylight, no flags burnt and no violent demonstrations held with signs saying 'Death to the infidel!' The cardinal has not issued a death warrant or put a few million euro on Mr Hrdlicka's head. No Protestant leader has called for a boycott of Catholic goods, no Catholic has called for the burning of homosexuals. Indeed, no one has been stoned. There goes your chance at a second leg to support your comparison.

Of course some whacko websites in the U.S. have made violent threats, something that happens every day in every country with more than 3 cizitens connected to the Internet. Now put me in a dress, slap my tush and call me Nancy, but somehow I think that isn't quite the same thing as blowing up sky scrapers, subway lines or train stations.

That was a good laugh.

Bravo. (non sarcastically)

[Tribesman]

Yoohoo Adrian , have death threats been recieved over the exhibition ?
Have bomb threats been recieved over the exhibition ?
If the answer is yes then your reply is bollox .

[Crazed Rabbit]

Ah, the tribesy standards of equivalence. Always good for a laugh.

Well said, Adrian.

CR

[Tribesman]

Oh look another one, hey Rabbit have bomb threats and death threats been made over this exhibition ?

Oh I get it , your standards of equivalence , threatening to kill someone and threatening to bomb somewhere isn't the same as threatening to kill someone or threatening to bomb somewhere unless it involves aircraft hitting tall buildings in down town New York .

[Quirinus]

Nice replies, everyone. (Well, almost.... :laugh4:)

The reason I posted this piece of news is a question that's been bothering me for a while. Why is religion/faith uniquely privileged? Why is satirizing religious figureheads considered bad taste, scandalous even, while everybody laughs at politicians' caricatures? Here's Douglas Adams on the subject:

Religion [...] has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, "Here's an idea or a notion that you are not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? - because you're not!" If someone votes for a party that you don't agree with, you're free to argue about it as much as you like; everyone will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it. But on the other hand if somebody says, "I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday", you say, "I respect that".

Why should it be that it's perfectly legitimate to support the Labour party or the Conservative party, Republicans or Democrats, this model of economics versus that, Macintosh instead of Windows - but to have an opinion on how the Universe began, about who created the Universe [...] no, that's holy? [...] We are used to not challenging religious ideas but it's very interesting how much of a furore one creates when one does it! Everybody gets absolutely frantic about it because you're not allowed to say these things. Yet when you look at it rationally there is no reason why those ideas shouldn't be as open to debate as any other, except we have agreed somehow between us that it shouldn't be.

Why? (It's not a rhetorical question. Why?)

[Adrian II]

Oh look another one, hey Rabbit have bomb threats and death threats been made over this exhibition ?

Oh I get it , your standards of equivalence , threatening to kill someone and threatening to bomb somewhere isn't the same as threatening to kill someone or threatening to bomb somewhere unless it involves aircraft hitting tall buildings in down town New York .Tribesman, you know I love you, and I mean love in the thorougly twisted, homoerotic way of the warrior. How many times have you and I held off hordes of angry right-wing Orgahs, standing back to back, nigh exhausted, our last shots of irony spent, our historical comparisons dripping with the enemy's bollox? And we prevailed! But this is one trench too far, old friend. Or rather: there is no trench. There is no casus belli. No ground to make a stand on. And running around with your bayonet stuck up your own behind and calling it hand-to-hand combat won't convince anyone that you're engaged in an honourable fight either. It just makes you look funny.

Please answer my question: has there been one islamic clerical institute that exhibits the work of a marxist homosexual atheist?

And here is another: would the Dome museum in Vienna exhibit Mr Hrdlicka's work if it depicted Mohammed in the same way that it depicts Christ? And if they did, do you think Mr Hrdlicka would make it to his 81st birthday without police protection?

[Tribesman]

Adrian have there been bomb threats and death threats over this exhibition ?
Have people on this forum claimed that such occurances are the preserve of Islamic nutters ?

If the answer to both is yes then what are you trying to say ?

[Adrian II]

Have people on this forum claimed that such occurances are the preserve of Islamic nutters ?No, not a single one.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Tribesman, you know I love you, and I mean love in the thorougly twisted, homoerotic way of the warrior. How many times have you and I held off hordes of angry right-wing Orgahs, standing back to back, nigh exhausted, our last shots of irony spent, our historical comparisons dripping with the enemy's bollox? And we prevailed! But this is one trench too far, old friend. Or rather: there is no trench. There is no casus belli. No ground to make a stand on. And running around with your bayonet stuck up your own behind and calling it hand-to-hand combat won't convince anyone that you're engaged in an honourable fight either. It just makes you look funny.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[ajaxfetish]

Any links to a site hosting images of the paintings in question? I'm mainly finding news stories that have decided not to show the artist's work. Awfully hard to judge whether the art is teh sux, blasphemous, or provocative genius when it's not even there to look at.

Also,
death threats =/= deaths
bomb threats =/= bombings.

If you want to make an argument using Christian fundamentalist bombings of abortion clinics, you've got a point. But neither the cathedral nor the artist in question have been blown up yet, to the best of my knowledge.

Ajax

[ICantSpellDawg]

Any links to a site hosting images of the paintings in question? I'm mainly finding news stories that have decided not to show the artist's work. Awfully hard to judge whether the art is teh sux, blasphemous, or provocative genius when it's not even there to look at.

Also,
death threats =/= deaths
bomb threats =/= bombings.

If you want to make an argument using Christian fundamentalist bombings of abortion clinics, you've got a point. But neither the cathedral nor the artist in question have been blown up yet, to the best of my knowledge.

Ajax

Tribesman hate link :viking:

[Adrian II]

Any links to a site hosting images of the paintings in question?I guess some of the earlier posters can give you all the links you need. After all, since they passed judgement on Hrdlicka’s work (‘sad excuse for art’, ‘lack of talent’, ‘shock replaces talent’ and ‘mediocre at best’) they must have seen it. If not, then their judgments are, shall we say, cheap ready-mades?

I have seen only his memorial against War and Fascism in Vienna, which I think is absolutely brilliant and rightly considered one of the top ten of its kind in the world. Not that I know all war monuments of the world, but having sampled a good number of them over the years I think a place in the top ten is a safe bet. It’s very ‘in your face’ and physical, as all of his art is rumoured to be.
But neither the cathedral nor the artist in question have been blown up yet, to the best of my knowledge.Not only that, but there is a very pleasant surprise wrapped inside this so-called scandal.

Consider the facts, man.


Fact: the Roman Catholic Church is exhibiting the work of Mr Alfred Hrdlicka, an avowed anticlerical homosexual Marxist

Even if they have removed one (1) piece from the exhibition, this still highlights a fundamental, qualitative difference with religions that forbid conversion, put a price on its critics’ heads, demand government censorhip and encourage sweaty displays of mass stupidity and illiteracy accompanied by arson, looting and flag burning.


Fact: the government of Austria (75% Roman Catholic) subsidizes the work of Mr Hrdlicka, an avowed anticlerical homosexual Marxist

Exhibit1: In 1964 Mr Hrdlicka, the avowed anticlerical homosexual Marxist, was chosen to officially represent Austria (75% Roman Catholic) at the Biennale in Venice.
Exhibit 2: In 1988 the government of Austria (75% Roman Catholic) commissioned Mr Hrdlicka, the avowed anticlerical homosexual Marxist, to create the now famous Memorial against War and Fascism for the city of Vienna.
That is a far cry from governments that clamour for censorship, boycotts and the murdering of those who ‘insult’ their prophets.


Fact: the government of Austria (75% Roman Catholic) has indicted politician Susanne Winter on charges of ‘incitement and degradation of religious symbols’ for saying that the prophet Mohammed was ‘a child molester’ because he married a six-year-old girl and a ‘warlord’ who dictated his Quran during ‘epileptic fits’
I think this shows is that the (perceived) interests and sensibilities of the Islamic minority in Austria (75% Roman Catholic) are better safe-guarded than those of Roman Catholics in any predominantly Islamic country. In fact, I would say they are better protected against the Mr Hrdlicka’s of this world than the majority of the Austrian population (75% Roman Catholic) itself.

Oh, and wake me when the riots start, will you guys? Or when the Mexican government demands immediate closure of the exhibition. Or when Mr Hrdlicka is stabbed to death by a young Catholic schooled by murderous missionaries from the Vatican.
:coffeenews:

[ICantSpellDawg]

Oh, and wake me when the riots start, will you guys? Or when the Mexican government demands immediate closure of the exhibition. Or when Mr Hrdlicka is stabbed to death by a young Catholic schooled by murderous missionaries from the Vatican.
:coffeenews:

I'll set the alarm for 1 hour. Are you sure that will be enough sleep?
:coffeenews:

[Vladimir]

Yes, and to think it only took (among other things) several hundred years of war to bring about this soft and cuddly Catholicism. :thinking:

[Adrian II]

Yes, and to think it only took (among other things) several hundred years of war to bring about this soft and cuddly Catholicism. :thinking:And Napoleon. And science. And porn. And Nietzsche. And Coca Cola. And .. :dozey: