Military Religious Orders

[ICantSpellDawg]

Im very disappointed in the portrayal of the Templars, hosp, teut, santiago knights in this game. Just being an anal retentive tool, here are a few complaints:

1) the Hospitallers are actually a french order and didnt occupy malta until the latter crusades (1400's i think) - they came from rhodes prior to Malta anyway, so i dont understand why malta has an added bonus in this game and the french cant use them at all

2) all of the orders in battle wear the mantles of the king that they serve under. Templars wear blue and yellow, etc... the thing was that ordained Temple brothers had to wear ONLY a white mantle with a red cross at all times and were answerable only to the pope, never a king

3) the various orders also acted as autonomous forces as almost an international community and prized their autonomy above all else - the pope should have final say and there should have been a grandmaster in charge of all action (or to go along with kings until his own needs were met)

*4) im not sure if the game does this as i am never advanced enough to launch a crusade early on, but the temple was the fist military religious order (hospital of st john came first but only as a hospital) and the temple was started in 1119 and only later recognized as an official order. i would bet that i can still use templars and the rest before 1119, kinda erks me

blah blah blah - i have more complaints but im at work and feel sick

post comments

[Yoko Kono]

stop moaning
the game is not an accurate historical simulation
its a portrayal of a period in history designed to be fun to play
i mean if only the pope could control crusading knights then what the hell would that achieve when you cant go the pope
no pleasing some people

[andrewt]

Don't take this the wrong way but some of us don't have a Cray to play Medieval on. Seriously, some people have no idea what it takes to implement something in a computer simulation when making suggestions and complaints. I suppose I could drive to Caltech and play on the JPL computers but that would mean them not being able to monitor the universe. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[ICantSpellDawg]

yea i was just saying. im sure i could change the skins of those models at least for myself if no one else cares, but i was just implying that the crusader orders were a reason i bought the game - kinda funny reason, but a reason. there are plenty of other anachronisms and off-set details, but they dont bother me.

thanks for the vote of confidence tho

[dclare4]

Yeah there are quite a few... more than a few historical details sacrificed for convenience and gameplay. Still it plays well but it never really transports me to another time and place that Shogun Total War did so darn well. Still I do like the way they handled crusades...

Everyone's entitled to at least one gripe http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Gilbert de Clare

P.S.
If you figure out the Crusaders don't hesitate to share your mods with the rest of us... I'm sure there are lots of malcontents out there http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Man, it is the eternal battle between gameplay and historical accuracy. The majority like the former while others purely buy this game for history. I am in the middle way http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

The Hospitallers were expelled from the Holy Land in 1291, reached Cyprus and then Rhodes in 1308. They left Rhodes in 1522 and came to Malta in 1530, where they left in 1798. They're still alive today with headquarters in Rome.

So theoritically in 1400's there shouldn't be any Knights crusading to Jerusalem but... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

And they forgot the Most Noble Order of the Radiant Heart!! Probly the most famous of all the military religous orders. Sir Keldorn, Sir Ajantis, Sir Anomen, famous knights one and all. I mean c'mon CA, do your research!

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We speak of deep night, deep autumn; when I think back to the year 1943 I feel like saying "deep war"
Ilya Ehrenburg

[aX1s]

And Where the Heck is Minsc??

[Alrowan]

what about all the other religeos orders... like the knights of St John who would go in, kill then take the sick and wounded

[Bjorn_Bloodyhanded]

I haven't figured out how to build crusader knights. The units chart seems to imply you only need a chapter house and a crusade to add them to, but that doesn't work, at least for the English. Are other buildings needed? Can someone respond with the details?

[Rnold]

you cannot build crusader knights. they come with the crusade.

[Jaret]

I think ...

... Crusader Knights "should" be available to build in a Province ... AFTER ... an sucessefull crusade had been launched from that Province.

It isn´t like that ... duno if I´m wrong or right ... but hope that, if I´m right, it´s gona be adressed in the patch.

[Mori Gabriel Syme]

It would be very difficult to construct a game which accurately modelled the activities of the Military Orders. As Templars, for instance, you would actually begin in Jerusalem, & you could go anywhere in Christian countries, but then you couldn't conquer Christian countries unless they became heretical, but you wouldn't rule them yourself even after you conquered them. Then in 1312, you disappear & the Hospital gets all your property.

Having an authentic mantle would mean that you had three colors of forces on the field. It's just too confusing when the units are all scrambled together. The one thing that does bug me about the Templar outfits is that the shield in the game has a black cross, but the Templar cross is red to symbolize their willingness to be martyred for Christ on the battlefield.

As for the pope & kings, loyalties sometimes were confused. The Templars guarded their independence, & so were eventually displaced in the Spanish king's favor, & donations, by the more pliable Hospital. As the pope & kings argued over authority, the military brothers were caught between the authority they recognized as supreme & the authorities who made the donations which financed the defence of the Holy Land. Add to that the fact that you grew up somewhere that had a ruler, & deciding what to do could be very difficult indeed.

I think the game you are looking to play would be based on the Crusader kingdoms, with a smaller, more detailed map. If done as well as STW & MTW, I would buy it.

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Others enslave by victory,
Their subjects, as their foes, oppress;
Anna conquers but to free,
And governs but to bless. -- Edmund Smith (Anna stands for England)