Can Ken, or ken Boris become London Mayor?

[Adrian II]

London elects its mayor today. The least you can say is this election pits two characters against one another.



https://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1589/borisjohnsoncampaign200mb8.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
https://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1589/borisjohnsoncampaign200mb8.2de18ea6a8.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=167&i=borisjohnsoncampaign200mb8.jpg)


https://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1753/kenlivingstonecampaign2ok5.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
https://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1753/kenlivingstonecampaign2ok5.2bd90f7f78.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=167&i=kenlivingstonecampaign2ok5.jpg)




It's a close call by any standard, and such neck-and-necks usually provoke the weirdest media coverage. There is a classic example of counterproductive campaigning in this morning's The Guardian. If I were an undecided London voter, this article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/may/01/boris.livingstone) would definitely push me over the edge and make me vote for Johnson. It is a personal attack, it is below the belt and it takes many of Boris Johnson's funny or tragi-comic quips from the past seriously, thereby demonstrating that the authors have no sense of humour whatsoever. If these are Ken's supporters, I'd pass.

[Banquo's Ghost]

The snobbery expressed in many of those comments is breathtaking. The article itself is slanderous and very weak on real arguments.

If the people of London feel Boris is for them, all well and good. He may be untried, but career politicos like Ken run out of ideas about a year after they started.


Boris as mayor? Unthinkable. It just exposes democracy as a sham, especially if people don't agree with me vote for Ken

~:rolleyes:

[Mikeus Caesar]

Go Boris!

Boris for PM!

I personally think he'd be a good larf. And, would most likely come up with some rather good ideas.

[InsaneApache]

Go get 'em Boris! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOivzoRc0I8&feature=related)

:laugh4:

[KukriKhan]

How long is the Mayor's term, and is it limited in length? Are there "recall" provisions if the wrong guy gets the job and makes a total mess - or must the voters wait 'til the next election?

[InsaneApache]

How long is the Mayor's term, and is it limited in length? Are there "recall" provisions if the wrong guy gets the job and makes a total mess - or must the voters wait 'til the next election?

Four years IIRC.


Originally Posted by Vivienne Westwood
Boris as mayor? Unthinkable. It just exposes democracy as a sham, especially if people don't agree with me vote for Ken

A Londoner? I thought she was from Oldham or somesuchplace. :dizzy2:

[macsen rufus]

if the wrong guy gets the job

That's democracy for you, you get what you ask for, not what's good for you :clown:

[KukriKhan]

OIC. This is a pretty new postcreated only recently (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_devolution_referendum), presumeably to get Parliament out of the day-to-day business of running London.

How exciting. No wonder the election garners such attention (and vitriol).

[FactionHeir]

I'd vote if I didn't have a data analysis writeup for an EPIC cohort due tomorrow.

Maybe I'll sneak out for a few minutes at night to do so.
My district is heavily convervative but I don't think I'll vote for them.

[InsaneApache]

I've already voted. And it's a secret. :quiet:

[KukriKhan]

Do UK elections always occur on weekday/workdays?

Ours (U.S.) usually are, though I think we'd get better turnout if we held them on Sundays.

[InsaneApache]

You know until you asked I hadn't thought much about it. Upon reflection I do believe we vote on Thursdays. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to either verify or dismiss my assertion.

I have to say I do love the thrill of putting a simple cross on the ballot paper. Yay for democracy! :2thumbsup:

As I thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_elections

:beam:

[Mikeus Caesar]

If anyone has read his biography on his official campaign website, it gives a good hint of things to come if he wins - an end to those ridiculous bendy-buses.



As well as being a passionate cyclist - he has had many near-misses with bendy buses - he enjoys painting, playing tennis and spends much of his time bringing up his four children with his wife Marina in North London.

He has cited his dislike of them in the past, but i think this is his funny little way of saying "i'm, er, getting rid of the, erm, buggers."

http://www.backboris.com/about/index.php

[FactionHeir]

Make sure you don't have a near miss with him then, you might be removed next :clown:

[Adrian II]

The snobbery expressed in many of those comments is breathtaking.You are so right, somehow I forgot to mention the snobbery. You look at all those prominent names and you say to yourself: these people are actually in a position to influence Livingstone, these are the sort of people who can talk him into taking or scrapping all sorts of measures and policies. That's what makes this stupid, vindictive lot downright scary. And this in a race that is so close, with victory depending on maybe half a percent of voters. I mean how stupid and full of yourself can you get?

It's a prime example of campaigners shooting themselves in the foot with a big phat Bazooka.

[Banquo's Ghost]

It's a prime example of campaigners shooting themselves in the foot with a big phat Bazooka.

:yes:

Anyway, their mock-working class disdain is utterly misplaced - it's hardly the case that Boris is of the finer classes. He's so arriviste (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/mar/09/boris.localgovernment).

:toff:

[Adrian II]

:yes:

Anyway, their mock-working class disdain is utterly misplaced - it's hardly the case that Boris is of the finer classes. He's so arriviste (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/mar/09/boris.localgovernment).

:toff:And Circassian, too!

The man's sense of homour is unsurpassed in today's politics. Dear Lord, grant us, modest Dutchmen, one Boris of our own. Just one, please. Please?

[Tribesman]

The article itself is slanderous and very weak on real arguments.

Do you think it goes back to their falling out at the spectator ?
Williams always seemed like a vindictive :daisy: who would really harbour a grudge whereas Boris would probaly go "Spectator ????I was one at Lords I think ..lots of people from the colonies....hmmmmmm....radishes are quite pleasant"

[Adrian II]

Do you think it goes back to their falling out at the spectator ? Is that so? :mellow:

Well in any case someone at The Guardian deserves a really hard spanking for letting this through at all.

[JAG]

Go Boris!

Boris for PM!

I personally think he'd be a good larf.


Yep, you clearly don't live in London. A good laugh, yeah we will all be laughing when he :daisy: everything up.

I voted a couple weeks back via postal vote and it's no secret who I voted for, Ken first choice, green second.

Ken has been good for London, if he hadn't I might understand some of the abuse which has been aimed at him. But of course no one can really explain the problems with his policies, especially not the Tories - they send an upper class babbling baboon to contest the vote, whose only benefit is name recognition - as a moron - and have the Evening Standard slander Ken day in, day out.

Come on Ken.

I am pretty confident he is going to win and I think the winning margin is going to be if not comfortable, still significant - say 4-7%. Boris is not going to get the second place votes, he may win round one but when the Lib Dem votes go to Ken, he will walk away with it.

[Tribesman]

Well in any case someone at The Guardian deserves a really hard spanking for letting this through at all.

Why ? its what the Guardian is good for , it gives all sorts of idiots an oppertunity to publish .

[Vladimir]

Wow, I wonder what Boris' peripheral vision is like. :stare:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Go Boris! That would be an excellent way to have the semester end.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

I did good on my EE final, and it looks like Boris is winning (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mayoroflondonelection2008/1920348/Mayor-election-2008-Tories-look-to-Boris-Johnson-to-seal-election-success.html).

Huzzah! I guess democracy is a sham after all!

CR

[Adrian II]

I did good on my EE final, and it looks like Boris is winning (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mayoroflondonelection2008/1920348/Mayor-election-2008-Tories-look-to-Boris-Johnson-to-seal-election-success.html).

Huzzah! I guess democracy is a sham after all!

CRCrazed, congrats with your EE final.

And thank God democracy is a sham.
Imagine the disaster if they would all stick to their promises! :dizzy2:

[Craterus]

Well, the answer is out.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Go Boris! That would be an excellent way to have the semester end.

CR

I agree - congratulations, United Kingdom!

The man seems like a degenerate liar and womanizer, but at least he is a change. Big cities do well under the leadership of lying degenerate womanizers. Plus, it isn't my country and it isn't ken livingston.

[InsaneApache]

Speechless. :2thumbsup:

[Tribesman]

Just wondering , for those that oppose or support Boris . Which of his policies do you like/dislike .
Or is it just that those that support him think he will be funny ?

[ICantSpellDawg]

Just wondering , for those that oppose or support Boris . Which of his policies do you like/dislike .
Or is it just that those that support him think he will be funny ?

I like that he understands that homosexual marriage will eliminate any obstacles regarding marring plurally or even inanimate/living objects. I also like that he recognizes that Islam is a violent religion and doesn't buy into the "religion of peace" idea.

I don't like that he cheated on his wife(/s) numerous times and lied about it - each time. I don't like that he plagiarized things. He is a sloppy mess. I don't like that he is clearly an opportunistic politician that would go anywhere and represent anyone to get into a powerful position. Thats all that I've really got so far.

I am sure that you like and dislike him for the exact opposite reasons - including some more important reasons like his economic agenda. He is a shallow mess - but he highlights just tired of Livingstone everybody was. This is the realistic equivalent of electing a rock into office instead of old Kenny-boy.

[Pannonian]

I like that he understands that homosexual marriage will eliminate any obstacles regarding marring plurally or even inanimate/living objects. I also like that he recognizes that Islam is a violent religion and doesn't buy into the "religion of peace" idea.

I don't like that he cheated on his wife(/s) numerous times and lied about it - each time. I don't like that he plagiarized things. He is a sloppy mess. I don't like that he is clearly an opportunistic politician that would go anywhere and represent anyone to get into a powerful position. Thats all that I've really got so far.

I am sure that you like and dislike him for the exact opposite reasons - including some more important reasons like his economic agenda. He is a shallow mess - but he highlights just tired of Livingstone everybody was. This is the realistic equivalent of electing a rock into office instead of old Kenny-boy.
The impression I got wasn't that everyone was tired of Livingstone, but everyone wanted to give Labour a good kicking, and Johnson was a good figure to unite behind. Livingstone is still extremely popular, as seen in his significant vote (when compared with the Labour vote elsewhere), but even he can't shrug off the dislike of the Labour party proper.

I wonder if Boris will host Have I Got News For You while he's mayor. After all, that's what got him the job.

[Papewaio]

The man seems like a degenerate liar and womanizer, but at least he is a change.

Well I don't think being a degenerate liar and womanizer is unusual for a politician. I do wonder what his stance on cigars is though...:laugh4:

[PBI]

I'm quite happy Boris won, but that's only because I don't have to live in London. I and the rest of the country will very much enjoy watching the ensuing chaos over the next four years.

If you vote for a joke candidate, the joke is on you.

[PanzerJaeger]

Hopefully this will end Livingstone's war on Porsche and other automakers.


Oh, and at least he recognizes islam for what it is, not that he will/can do anything about it.

[Tribesman]

Interesting tuff , you like his election for two reasons that have nothing to do with his policies or new job and you dislike him for things that are also nothing to do with his policies or job .


I am sure that you like and dislike him for the exact opposite reasons :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
I dislike some of his policies because they make no sense , are highly impractical or downright contradictory .


The impression I got wasn't that everyone was tired of Livingstone, but everyone wanted to give Labour a good kicking, and Johnson was a good figure to unite behind. Livingstone is still extremely popular, as seen in his significant vote (when compared with the Labour vote elsewhere), but even he can't shrug off the dislike of the Labour party proper.

Now that seems like a good view Pann , especially when you consider the large turnout in suburban London , which is kinda funny really since Labour has always tried to distance itself from Livingstone .

[Tribesman]

Hopefully this will end Livingstone's war on Porsche and other automakers.

It appears that someone hasn't got a clue about boris and his policies:dizzy2:

[LittleGrizzly]

Boris is a really funny guy, my view is london have hired a really expensive comedian for 4 years.

[InsaneApache]

Now that seems like a good view Pann , especially when you consider the large turnout in suburban London , which is kinda funny really since Labour has always tried to distance itself from Livingstone .

Aye from a corrupt, arrogant-beyond-belief Trotskyite alcoholic, pissing money away with the help of people like Lee Jasper.

[Adrian II]

It appears that someone hasn't got a clue about boris and his policies:dizzy2:Doesn't surprise me. Most anti-Ken posters dislike anything having to do with socialism, so Boris is automatically their favourite. What does surprise me is that Boris hasn't yet run over a Muslim or Scouser on his bike ('Oh crumbs!') or inadvertently offended a foreign head of state ('The Sultan of what, you say?').

But it's not a very powerful position at all, it it? There is not much a London Mayor can do about employment, housing, edumacation and a host of other things. Crime - a bit. Public transport - just enough. Public and communal relations - a hell of a lot.

Contrary to some perceptions I think Boris' lack of experience is a big advantage. His thought and discourse haven't been thoroughly politicised. I will give you an example. To Boris, crime is not a series of statistics in which mean burglary balances out median homicide in such a way that one could say 'Look, crime is down!' and keep a straight face on it. Apparently Boris still sees crime for what it is, with people shooting and knifing each other at the top of the list, and he plans to actually do something about it without union demands, political correctness and real estate heavyweights getting in the way.

Whether he can succeed is a big question.

Furthermore I think he has a better take than Livingstone on what it means to represent Britain's capital. Johnson wouldn't invite murdering sheiks and other idiots. On the other hand he wouldn't back a character like Ian Blair to the hilt and in spite of an Old Bailey verdict that the murder of Jean Charles de Menezes was a 'corporate failing'. Johnson has stopped just short of demanding Blair's resignation, but he intends to give a badly needed 'yank at the steering wheel of the Met'. Livingstone backed Blair with the argument that 'he has the full support of the force'.

Never mind the public.

No doubt I've got it all wrong and someone is going to tell me that Boris Johnson was Saddam Hussein's roommate at Eton or that he took money from the Pope. Whateva, I'm using me own loaf.

[Tribesman]

Doesn't surprise me. Most anti-Ken posters dislike anything having to do with socialism, so Boris is automatically their favourite.
Don't you find that many of Johnsons policies are in the socialist vein though ?
I think the main difference in the two is that Livingstone was too focused on central London .

[Adrian II]

Don't you find that many of Johnsons policies are in the socialist vein though ?He is an ardent supporter of Hillary Clinton, if that's what you mean. :laugh4:

[Pannonian]

Don't you find that many of Johnsons policies are in the socialist vein though ?
I think the main difference in the two is that Livingstone was too focused on central London .
Infrastructure-wise, central London as defined by the Circle Line is by a huge distance the most important area, with everything going through there.

It'd be interesting to see a map of the wards, coloured red or blue.

[Adrian II]

Infrastructure-wise, central London as defined by the Circle Line is by a huge distance the most important area, with everything going through there.

It'd be interesting to see a map of the wards, coloured red or blue.I think Tribesman means Johnson has managed to mobilize suburbia, where a lot of people live who appear to be surprisingly convinced that they are Londoners, too.

EDIT
I forgot to mention that Johnson wants to strip the Commissioner's Office of its responsibility for counter-terrorism. Tribesy, do you think that is a good idea?

[Banquo's Ghost]

No doubt I've got it all wrong and someone is going to tell me that Boris Johnson was Saddam Hussein's roommate at Eton or that he took money from the Pope. Whateva, I'm using me own loaf.

Well, he did steal Tariq Aziz's cigar case. Allegedly.

I think it's wonderful that a multi-cultural paradigm such as London now has a Turk for her mayor.

:2thumbsup:

[Pannonian]

I think Tribesman means Johnson has managed to mobilize suburbia, where a lot of people live who appear to be surprisingly convinced that they are Londoners, too.

Being one of those suburbaners, I'm nonetheless quite aware that most of our lives still run through central London. It's not such a hassle to have a largely neglected local council, but a rundown central London affects us all.

[Adrian II]

I think it's wonderful that a multi-cultural paradigm such as London now has a Turk for her mayor.

:2thumbsup:Circassian, old boy.

And a fierce tribe they are.
Manners: none.
Customs: beastly.
Just what we need to sort London out.
https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6529/toffgifjk3.gif (https://imageshack.us)

[Banquo's Ghost]

Circassian, old boy.

That's a red herring. What great family doesn't have slave blood somewhere in the old pedigree?

His great-grandaddy was an interior minister of the Ottoman Empire and made the significant mistake of arresting one Kemal Atatürk - an error which got him beaten to death.

One trusts the immigrant Muslim scion Boris de Pfeffel will fare better. :wink3:

[ICantSpellDawg]

Interesting tuff , you like his election for two reasons that have nothing to do with his policies or new job and you dislike him for things that are also nothing to do with his policies or job .

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
I dislike some of his policies because they make no sense , are highly impractical or downright contradictory .


Now that seems like a good view Pann , especially when you consider the large turnout in suburban London , which is kinda funny really since Labour has always tried to distance itself from Livingstone .

All I know about Boris is what I read from BBC, other online papers and Wiki. If I ever have information not related to internet reading, I will let you know.

My general knowledge about Johnson leads me to believe that he may not be the most scrupulous man, even when compared to other politicians. (not including the Aziz cigarette case which he never really stole)

Look at Tony Blair, for example. Have there ever been accusations of extra-marital affairs, plagiarism, etc? No, just that he might have entered into some shadowy dealings as PM - can anyone avoid those in any other area of their life? I doubt it, and that is saying nothing of the demands of running the British empire (small E)

The major difference between U.S. politics and British politics is that we hold our politicians accountable for personal failings and any compunction to become demigods whereas it is celebrated in the U.K.

Involved in a Gay or heterosexual affair behind your husband/wife's back? Good for you! Use drugs on the company dime? Keep up the good work!

Mind you guys like Giuliani, Schwarzenegger, Bloomberg, Sarkozy, Burlusconi, etc are trying to catch up with the politics of Britain. Sensationalist, arbitrary demigods who believe that laws and restraint don't apply to them.

Add Johnson to the list of those scuzbuckets. They do a decent job of running things, mostly because they are autocrats. Both the left and the right need to hold themselves to higher standards.

[Tribesman]

All I know about Boris is what I read from BBC, other online papers and Wiki. If I ever have information not related to internet reading, I will let you know.

Well Tuff since the topic is about the mayoral election and my question was about his policies for that office do you not think his election manifesto might be a good place to start ?
I do believe it is on that internet thingy for people to read on them newfangled machines ...though the 41 pages are presented in pdf format and I recently discovered that some might consider that format as biased and dangerous , however his election web page does give a brief summary of the policies without having to use the insidious adobe thingamywhatsit .
If you look really carefully on a source like the BBC you might notice that on the stories about the election it has clicky thingies about all the candidates , perhaps those clicky thingies may just lead to all the candidates websites and election manifestos .


The major difference between U.S. politics and British politics is that we hold our politicians accountable for personal failings and any compunction to become demigods whereas it is celebrated in the U.K.

Well that is certainly a strange take on UK politics .

[Tribesman]

It'd be interesting to see a map of the wards, coloured red or blue.

no surprises , all of central apart from west (obviously) went easily to Livingstone all the suburbs apart from Brent and NE went to Johnston easily . The only close contest was Merton/Wandsworth which straddles the suburb/central divide anyway .


I forgot to mention that Johnson wants to strip the Commissioner's Office of its responsibility for counter-terrorism. Tribesy, do you think that is a good idea?
Yes , besides the fact that Blair and his team screwed up really badly counter terrorism needs the bigger approach at higher levels , not to take away all the responsibilities of course as everything of tht nature needs to be co-ordinated through the local levels , but Londons commisioner should be under a national commisioner and not as now in its own right .
But on policing as a whole what gets me about Boris is his aims of cutting paperwork , he wants to build a force that people can trust and reduce the form filling , one thing he is focussing on is the SAS paperwork .Now forgive me for having something called a memory but the whole introduction of that system of safeguards was because the police were blatantly abusing the proceedure and causing a major loss in trust in the police .

[JAG]

I think for all those people who slagged off Ken's charater and said how much of a failure he has been should not only watch Boris' acceptance speech but most importantly Ken's. It made me get more than a little emotional - I will admit it. He has been a giant of London and of the left in this country and he is going to be missed, I will miss him. London failed, we have now turned a significant and important position into a local, national and global laughing stock. Shocking.

Let the start of the rollback in free / discounted admission on the bus' for those under 16 and on low incomes begin.

[JAG]

Adrian - The position of the London Mayor IS significant, not only because it does hold significant powers but that the powers are shifting and expanding.

I have just done my dissertation on this exact topic, the Greater London Authority Act which was passed recently not only made the Mayor more substantial in his role with different aspects of local government but far more powerful in that role - more of the same will follow. We are moving in this country from local government being based on local councils to Mayor's - whatever you think of that, and there are clear benefits and problems it is happening, and Boris is not the man to have at the healm when things are in flux.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I had a good laugh when I read this:


Constituency
Barking

[ICantSpellDawg]

Well Tuff since the topic is about the mayoral election and my question was about his policies for that office do you not think his election manifesto might be a good place to start ?
I do believe it is on that internet thingy for people to read on them newfangled machines ...though the 41 pages are presented in pdf format and I recently discovered that some might consider that format as biased and dangerous , however his election web page does give a brief summary of the policies without having to use the insidious adobe thingamywhatsit .
If you look really carefully on a source like the BBC you might notice that on the stories about the election it has clicky thingies about all the candidates , perhaps those clicky thingies may just lead to all the candidates websites and election manifestos .


Well that is certainly a strange take on UK politics .

Your condescension might be less irritating if it was more concise.

[Tribesman]

Your condescension might be less irritating if it was more concise.
Oh you want the concise version
OK then .
How on earth can you answer a question on a candidates policies if you havn't got the faintest idea what those policies are ?

[Adrian II]

Yes , besides the fact that Blair and his team screwed up really badly counter terrorism needs the bigger approach at higher levels , not to take away all the responsibilities of course as everything of that nature needs to be co-ordinated through the local levels , but Londons commisioner should be under a national commisioner and not as now in its own right .The reason I'm asking is that Johnson's decision would take the copper out of anti-terrorism and anti-terrorism out of the copper, so to speak. I'm researching similar issues in my own country. Of course we haven't been put to the test as much as Britain was, both prior to 9/11 and after it.

It's a bit of a guess whether the proposition of a national superpolice charged almost uniquely with anti-terrorism would improve security compared to the regional, devoluted set-up of tasks and security arrangements that we have right now. When it comes to countering both home-grown or imported terrorism, good communal policing is as important as having high-wired observation and arrest teams. And of course you need proper channels and continuous feedback between the two. On the other hand you don't want your local constable to be associated too much with the 'heavies' and the database fetishists. It's a fine line.

[PanzerJaeger]

It appears that someone hasn't got a clue about boris and his policies:dizzy2:

Absolutely not. I live in another country...

So no relief for sports cars then? So wrong on so many levels....:dizzy2:

Of course Autoblog may not be the best source for unbiased policy discussion. :laugh4:

[Tribesman]

So no relief for sports cars then? So wrong on so many levels....
Errrrrr...yes Panzer :dizzy2:
Oh sorry , its London you know , that place where you are generally crawling in nose to tail traffic and a granny on roller skates is quicker than a ferrari .
I find it funny that you favour someone who thinks people should walk or get the bus and then mention sports cars for London .
Oh I get it , London .. that has a motorway round it , when it doesn't have the variable speed restrictions active on it you are allowed to drive quite fast on a motorway so a sports car could be fun...then again that motorway is known as Londons biggest car park so perhaps the super performance of a penis extention wouldn't really come into play there .


It's a bit of a guess whether the proposition of a national superpolice charged almost uniquely with anti-terrorism would improve security compared to the regional, devoluted set-up of tasks and security arrangements that we have right now.
Yep , complicated isn't it , does it work better with special branch having clear overall authority or dual authority or being put under local authority in each district ?
On the one hand you have you have problems with duplication and failures in co-ordination , on the other extreme you can have them as in the past becoming a law unto themselves .
Overall though I think most of Johnsons law and order policies are only window dressing and those that are not are pretty identical to Livngstones anyway .
One good thing from the London election is the BNPs poor performance ...then again I did think their expectation of 3-4 assembly seats was very over optimistic .

[Adrian II]

On the one hand you have you have problems with duplication and failures in co-ordination , on the other extreme you can have them as in the past becoming a law unto themselves .Well, there you go. And apart from the service push, there is the political pull. For instance I believe Margaret Thatcher became a bit overconfident about the capabilities of the SAS after the 1980 Iranian embassy hostage crisis, resulting in their detachment to law enforcement in Britain and Northern Ireland, and I believe there were even plans to employ them against the miners strike. You don't want that sort of thing in a democracy, for obvious reasons.

On the other hand there's the public perception of government negligence if it appears that you don't have the sort of superpolice that can deal with really hairy situations. When a serious attack occurs, it's all well and good to tell people that it was just a malcontent who disagreed with our government and left a few thousand dead Dutchmen in his wake, and that more poeple die each year in traffic and so on, but somehow a surprisingly large section of the public wont buy into that.

It isn't true either, because only 800 people die in Dutch traffic each year.

[Tribesman]

You don't want that sort of thing in a democracy, for obvious reasons.

Oh come on Adrian , the miners strike , next thing you are going to make a crazy accusation about their involvement with things like the Newbury by-pass protests , or the rambers assocition or the pro and anti-hunting groups .

[PanzerJaeger]

Errrrrr...yes Panzer :dizzy2:
Oh sorry , its London you know , that place where you are generally crawling in nose to tail traffic and a granny on roller skates is quicker than a ferrari .
I find it funny that you favour someone who thinks people should walk or get the bus and then mention sports cars for London .
Oh I get it , London .. that has a motorway round it , when it doesn't have the variable speed restrictions active on it you are allowed to drive quite fast on a motorway so a sports car could be fun...then again that motorway is known as Londons biggest car park so perhaps the super performance of a penis extention wouldn't really come into play there .


I don't favor anyone. I don't live there!

I was simply offering my hopes that the new mayor will kill Livingstone's ridiculously high tax on sports cars. 50$ a day?

Apparently he won't, according to what you've said. Shame. :shame:

Isn't all that you just said deterrent enough for all but those who really enjoy them? If not that, then the cost of petrol?

Taxing Porsche out of London and then comparing the cars to trash seems like the kind of policy and reaction a 10 year old would come up with. Instead of addressing large sources of pollution, he threw a bone to his socialist backers. How many pounds of hydrocarbons, or whatever the ridiculous metric is now, will be saved by taking away people's options? I would bet it will stop less than .0000001% of Britain - even London's - pollution output.

Of course its never a big deal until they target something you're interested in.

[Adrian II]

Oh come on Adrian , the miners strike , next thing you are going to make a crazy accusation about their involvement with things like the Newbury by-pass protests , or the rambers assocition or the pro and anti-hunting groups .I could swear I saw a serious news story about Thatcher considering using the SAS to break the back of the miners strike. Or would that be GB75 she planned on using? Can you point me to any British sources please, thank you, obliged as usual. :bow:

Now, with stories about the SAS being involved in observation or containment of a bunch of tree huggers we are deep into Lalaland. Right?

[Tribesman]

I was simply offering my hopes that the new mayor will kill Livingstone's ridiculously high tax on sports cars. 50$ a day?

Errrrr...it isn't a tax on sports cars it is a tax based on what tax rate the government says the vehicle falls into based on engine emmissions (unless the car is old then it goes on engine size just as it does for other road taxes), the same tax formula that is used for the vehicle even if it goes nowhere near London .


Of course its never a big deal until they target something you're interested in.
You are interested in driving a car through London :dizzy2: Most people dread that thought as London can be a right bugger to drive anything in .

[Vladimir]

Wow, two pages down. Yey Boris (http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/4593/), boo Ken!

[Adrian II]

Wow, two pages down. Yey Boris (http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/4593/), boo Ken!
"Boris posing happily with Israeli Soldiers.."Yeah right. Have you seen that piece of raven-haired crumpet right behind him? Boris Johnson has a better class of dialogue partners than Jimmie Carter, that's for sure.

[Vladimir]

"Boris posing happily with Israeli Soldiers.."Yeah right. Have you seen that piece of raven-haired crumpet right behind him? Boris Johnson has a better class of dialogue partners than Jimmie Carter, that's for sure.

:laugh4:

I know, and one of the comments:




So he met a former Israeli president and hung out on a stair case with 30 gorgeous women in uniform.

The site is trying to paint it as he hangs out with Beirut's Zionist imperialists. Muslim Public Affairs Committee.

[Crazed Rabbit]

To be honest, I was happy Boris won because Ken is a communist and gave nice welcomes to people who shouldn't have gotten them, along with general loathing of America. Or at least that's the impression I have.

Boris seems like a guy more interested in real results than nice sounding results.

CR

[LittleGrizzly]

I was happy Boris won because Ken is a communist

Well he's managed to keep that one quiet...

[PanzerJaeger]

I was happy Boris won because Ken is a communist

Well he's managed to keep that one quiet...

The terms "essentially", "for all intents and purposes", or "basically" could remedy the equation.. :yes:

[Tribesman]

Boris seems like a guy more interested in real results than nice sounding results.

Boris seems more like a guy who is interested in window dressing .

[LittleGrizzly]

The terms "essentially", "for all intents and purposes", or "basically" could remedy the equation..

"essentially" the facist "for all intents and purposes" beat the communist "for all intents and purposes"

I figured if we were going to push one candidate off to thier extreme to balance the equasion the other candidiate must be pushed a similar distance to his extreme (math rules ;) )

Edit: Grizzly likes speeleng

[JR-]

Hooray for Boris! :clown:

[Tribesman]

And Boris has made his first move at window dressing , banning alcohol from public transport . Now forgive me if I am wrong but don't them trains arriving and leaving London have a buffet car or a wally with a trolly selling alcohol , just like all the big stations (and lots of the smaller ones)have bars and cafes selling alcohol .
So what on earth is his point ?

[JAG]

And Boris has made his first move at window dressing , banning alcohol from public transport . Now forgive me if I am wrong but don't them trains arriving and leaving London have a buffet car or a wally with a trolly selling alcohol , just like all the big stations (and lots of the smaller ones)have bars and cafes selling alcohol .
So what on earth is his point ?

I think it is aimed at buses and to be fair it is not such a bad idea. There is a distinct difference between trains going from London to Manchester and buses, Hounslow to Kingston. As long as it is alcahol that is open I don't have a problem and this is someone who uses the buses in London very regularily, both day and night buses. Not owning a car I think I have used just about every bus route in London over my time - 4 years on the piss :D - and having seen people do cocaine at the back of night buses, directly next to me and teens crazily drunk, offending everyone - I was never one, honest - it is possibly the necessary first step in what is a complex issue. If this can be backed up by Boris and then by central government, it might not be so bad - though of course I don't for the life of me think Boris has done it for the benefit of anyone, merely his own political capital.

[Tribesman]

Ah but Jag his initial move was for a ban on all public transport until someone must have told him that he cannot do that . Besides which its just window dressing , you complain aout people doing coke and being drunk on the bus , cokes already illegal and banning drink on the bus does not address the issue of being drunk on a bus does it as that would require a law that says you cannot drink before you get on public transport .
Plus how on earth is he supposed to enforce it if he is only putting out 40extra transport police for the whole metropolitan area .
But anyway he has come up with another real doozy today , opening schools on a saturday to teach children manners and ...wait for it ....its a real good un.....definately worth the wait ...........how to march ?????????
WTF is he on ? teaching children to march will do what exactly ?
bloody hell you have 4 more years of this fool in office .

[Adrian II]

But anyway he has come up with another real doozy today , opening schools on a saturday to teach children manners and ...wait for it ....its a real good un.....definately worth the wait ...........how to march ?????????
WTF is he on ? teaching children to march will do what exactly ?
bloody hell you have 4 more years of this fool in office .That wouldn't perchance be Allan Johnson's idea (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/5377786.stm)? Allan Johnson, the British Education Secretary? For Labour?

At least you won't have to endure four more years of those fools in office.

[Tribesman]

That wouldn't perchance be Allan Johnson's idea? Allan Johnson, the British Education Secretary? For Labour?


No it wouldn't since that proposal is about extra academic lessons isn't it , not teaching kids manners and marching .

At least you won't have to endure four more years of those fools in office.
Ionlyhave toendure those fools when I am over there , just as I only have to endure the London fools when I am in London .

[Adrian II]

No it wouldn't since that proposal is about extra academic lessons isn't it , not teaching kids manners and marching .

Ionlyhave toendure those fools when I am over there , just as I only have to endure the London fools when I am in London .Well, maybe you could provide a reference, because I haven't found anything on this in three major online UK papers and I can't be bothered to check the remaining 396.

[InsaneApache]

Ah but Jag his initial move was for a ban on all public transport until someone must have told him that he cannot do that . Besides which its just window dressing

I would imagine that all he has to do is pass a bylaw stating that carrying of alcohol is prohibited on public transport. Very much as it is up here, you just are not allowed to wander around swigging White Lightning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lightning_(cider)) on the streets.

As for the marching around of kids, I'm with Adrian on this one and can't find a sauce anywhere. :wink:

[Tribesman]

aw comeon guys it ain't that hard , surely you can work out that if you want to bollox on Boris and his "respect schools" window dressing that is aimed at the twittering suburbian supporters of his campaign then you really should look at the source that backs Boris and claims it was the newspaper that errrr...hold on ..."wot won the election for Boris"(as you can see dey be der ones dat be needing sum skooling):laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

I would imagine that all he has to do is pass a bylaw stating that carrying of alcohol is prohibited on public transport.
Not realy as he wants it on all Public transport in London and he cannot do that as it isn't his job , he can alter London Transports conditions of carriage to ban people from having open drinks containers while in transit (but that doesn't stop people being drunk on the bus does it) but to extend it to all of Londons public transport he has to go through the dept of transport , which is unworkable . For example at what point would the 657 crew have to empty all their glasses on the way up for match ? Would the London transport police have to go out to Woking and make them finish all their drinks before they get to Surbiton ?


you just are not allowed to wander around swigging White Lightning on the streets.

Bloody hell Apache , people must be really desperate to be willing to drink that crap . Its like that Diamond White, pure gut rot

[JAG]

Yeh Tribe, how it will be enforced is a problem which he hasn't really thought out properly - and yes one of the reasons I didn't want this prat in office is because of things he will try and bring in, which were never campaigned for, such as the ones you allude to.

[Tribesman]

Yeh Tribe, how it will be enforced is a problem which he hasn't really thought out properly - and yes one of the reasons I didn't want this prat in office is because of things he will try and bring in, which were never campaigned for, such as the ones you allude to.

Well they were campaigned for it all in the manifesto . the respect schools anyway as a way of breeding out criminality apparently , though what marching has to do with that is anyones guess , I suppose Boris thinks that by getting kids to walk round a playground in step on a saturday morning means they won't turn out to be thieving gits in later life .
As for the alcohol thing , well that could be argued that it was covered in his pledge to stop anti social behavior on public transport ...apart from the fact that he listed anti-social behavior as things like swearing and having your i-pod turned up too loud .
But anyway he pledged to do any measures with consultations with the workers and unions , He gas got one manager to say it seems like it might be a good idea and the unions and workers saying no one talked to them about it and how on earth is it supposed to work .
I did like the RMT shop steward suggesting that Boris gets on a train of Liverpool supporters and tells them to stop drinking when they entered London .

[LeftEyeNine]

So Ottoman rule revived...in the heart of London !

[LittleGrizzly]

Very much as it is up here, you just are not allowed to wander around swigging White Lightning on the streets.

ahh happy memorys... or maybe just memorys...

[English assassin]

He gas got one manager to say it seems like it might be a good idea and the unions and workers saying no one talked to them about it and how on earth is it supposed to work .

I called my brother out on this (he's a train driver). Its outrageous, he says. We can't stop people drinking, its not our job. Oh yes?, I replied. How come you didn't say anything when they banned smoking on trains? That didn't cause the end of civilisation or mass hospitalisation of train drivers, did it?

Its Bob Crow serving notice that if Boris announces that water is wet, he'll disagree unless the RMT were consulted first. And why is that? Because Bob Crow is an old school trade unions class warrior who could not give a drop of monkey juice about the passengers.

[rory_20_uk]

First off I fail to see why all trains on the Underground can't be driverless. Generealy the software recognises the signals and it's the driver that goes through the red light. No more delays, and the staff could be redeployed to work at the station / numbers reduced by natural wastage.

The difference between smokers on the train and drinkers is as I see it drinkers can be far more aggressive and disinhibited.

~:smoking:

[Tribesman]

The difference between smokers on the train and drinkers is as I see it drinkers can be far more aggressive and disinhibited.

The differnce between smokers and drinkers on the train is that if someone has been drinking lots before they get on the train they may well be drunk , if someone has been smoking lots they may well stink of smoke . stopping smoking on the train may reduce the smell , but stopping drnking on the train doesn't stop the drunk .
And of course no need to remind you that the smoking ban on the tube was introduced after a disaster where the main fault lay in lack of cleaning and maintainance due to cut backs to make the industry more attrctive for investors in the drive to privatisation

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

The difference between smokers on the train and drinkers is as I see it drinkers can be far more aggressive and disinhibited.


I still wouldn't want second hand smoke in my lungs, thank you very much (though there's enough of that around here anyways).

[Tribesman]

Now this is wierd , apparently the move by Boris to put 440 extra "police" on LondonTransport is strangely similar to Livingstones actions last year of actually putting 440 extra Police on the transport network .
Apart from Boris putting "police" on this year and Ken putting Police on last year .
What makes it really wierd is that when Ken sought to expand last years increase by using "police" as well as Police the London Tories were up in arms because "police" are just not up to the job and it does nothing for law and order and was a really bad idea and of course was a case of someone trying to skimp on the finacial aspect by not putting the funding in for proper Police .

Its amazing how they can now find that "police" are now not only up to the job but that its a really good idea which shows how serious they are about law and order when it is one of their own doing it and it shows how fiscally prudent they are .

[Adrian II]

Now this is wierd , apparently the move by Boris to put 440 extra "police" on LondonTransport is strangely similar to Livingstones actions last year of actually putting 440 extra Police on the transport network .
Apart from Boris putting "police" on this year and Ken putting Police on last year .
What makes it really wierd is that when Ken sought to expand last years increase by using "police" as well as Police the London Tories were up in arms because "police" are just not up to the job and it does nothing for law and order and was a really bad idea and of course was a case of someone trying to skimp on the finacial aspect by not putting the funding in for proper Police .

Its amazing how they can now find that "police" are now not only up to the job but that its a really good idea which shows how serious they are about law and order when it is one of their own doing it and it shows how fiscally prudent they are .:laugh4:
If this is true, and I have no energy or time to check it, this is what one might call a direct hit, Monsieur Tribesman. My compliments.

[Tribesman]

Ah but Adrian there is more from another angle , was Ken trying to woo the twittering classes before the election as he put the extra officers out in the suburbs ?

[Adrian II]

Ah but Adrian there is more from another angle , was Ken trying to woo the twittering classes before the election as he put the extra officers out in the suburbs ?He should have grown a shock of hair instead. Would have been cheaper too. Seriously, I believe he was cooked long before the alarm went off. In the end it was Blair's national policies what did in Ken, not 'is own. Ah, poetic justice that is.

[InsaneApache]

Alas no links again. Lazy Tribes, lazy, lazy Tribes. I feel a song coming on! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3vSPxHvB_g)

I close my eyes and drift away.......:hippie: :daisy:

[Tribesman]

Hey Apache have a link , could it possibly be a Boris moment with his happy days toytown newspaper smile ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pPCYlYWO6w

[InsaneApache]

I'll take one Small faces and raise you one Kinks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDKIH47nubs

Telling tales of drunkeness and cruelty.

[Tribesman]

Aw come on Apache , since Boris is now muzzled and scripted by his advisors it has to be ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tFjKP4ysro&feature=related

[InsaneApache]

Death of a Clown

Surely that appertains to our Great Leader. Never in the field of human conflict has the electorate been inflicted by the afflicted.

However.....

Try to refute this one.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3mi-bKtDGA

[Tribesman]

Now now IA , you know full well that can't be refuted .
The people are fooled at every election and even when there is fighting on the streets you still find that the replacements are just about as bad as those that got put up against the wall and shot .

[InsaneApache]

Indeed. Thanks for that insight Tribes and very, very true.


We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me

I'm off to bed, thankyou and goodnight.

[Tribesman]

So now , on Boris .
What do you think so far ?
Several of his job appointents for advisors and consultants have been deemed illegal .
The costing for his new bus dream has gone from £8 million to £100 million in just two weeks .
He has scrapped the deal that obtains a fifth of London Transports fuel at bargain basement prices .
He is revoking cheap fares for the poor on public transport .
His plan to re-phase traffic lights to get traffic moving better had strangely not taken any account of pedestrian crossings at those lights .

Oh and his claim of being a responsible road user was slightly damaged when on one short cycle ride he went through 6 red lights , didn't stop at a zebra crossing , rode on the pavement twice and then cut through a park where cycling is prohibited .....naughty Boris , or should that be dumb Boris as he was being filmed by his promoters to highlight his policy of cycling in the city (and he managed to get lost en route and had to ask for directions)

[Adrian II]

Now now IA , you know full well that can't be refuted .
The people are fooled at every election and even when there is fighting on the streets you still find that the replacements are just about as bad as those that got put up against the wall and shot .Why do you hate progress? :mellow:

[English assassin]

So now , on Boris .
What do you think so far ?
Several of his job appointents for advisors and consultants have been deemed illegal .

No, they haven't. Milton's not taking a salary. 0/1


The costing for his new bus dream has gone from £8 million to £100 million in just two weeks .

Old news. came out well before the election that they messed the figures up. £100M was the figure the elction was fought on. 0.5/1


He has scrapped the deal that obtains a fifth of London Transports fuel at bargain basement prices .

Please read the story http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7419227.stm?TB_iframe=true&height=650&width=850 0/1


He is revoking cheap fares for the poor on public transport .

Please read the bit of the story that says "The mayor of London said half-price bus and tram fares for 250,000 Londoners on income support, which were also funded by the deal, would still be honoured." And while we are about it: "I think many Londoners felt uncomfortable about the bus operation of one of the world's financial powerhouses being funded by the people of a country where many people live in extreme poverty. "

No more kissy kissy with Chavez is a good thing in my book. 0/1



His plan to re-phase traffic lights to get traffic moving better had strangely not taken any account of pedestrian crossings at those lights .

Can't find the slightest support for this, sorry. 0/1


Oh and his claim of being a responsible road user was slightly damaged when on one short cycle ride he went through 6 red lights , didn't stop at a zebra crossing , rode on the pavement twice and then cut through a park where cycling is prohibited .....naughty Boris , or should that be dumb Boris as he was being filmed by his promoters to highlight his policy of cycling in the city (and he managed to get lost en route and had to ask for directions

He was being filmed by the Daily Mirror, but otherwise, yeah, you got him on this one.
1/1

1.5/6, see me after school. :clown:

[Crazed Rabbit]

LOL. Those allegations remind me of some newspaper ... something with getting mail every day ...:laugh4:

So anyway, EA, what's your take on Boris so far?

CR

[Tribesman]

No, they haven't. Milton's not taking a salary. 0/1

Milton is not taking a salary because his appointment with a salary was illegal , 3 other appointments are also in question on the same issue .


"The mayor of London said half-price bus and tram fares for 250,000 Londoners on income support, which were also funded by the deal, would still be honoured."
They will be honoured until the deal closes, same as the fuel deal will be honoured until the deal closes . He isn't renewing the deal .


Old news. came out well before the election that they messed the figures up. £100M was the figure the elction was fought on. 0.5/1

No EA , new news , its in this mornings evening standard , they are still trying it out even though they know they havn't got the money for it .


"I think many Londoners felt uncomfortable about the bus operation of one of the world's financial powerhouses being funded by the people of a country where many people live in extreme poverty. "
the deal was for London transport to help venezuela sort out its massive increase in public transport and get its new networks up and running , that deal was beneficial to the people of venezuela who Boris claims to be concerned about .


Can't find the slightest support for this, sorry. 0/1

Oh sorry its old news EA , its from his first session , you know the session that was broadcast live(well live apart from the frequent technical screw ups)

[InsaneApache]

Ken's not a champaign socialist.........more a Château-neuf-du-Pape socialist.


NVESTIGATORS ordered in by Boris Johnson, the new mayor of London, have found endemic waste in the way millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money was spent by the former regime of Ken Livingstone.

Huge sums are unaccounted for, have gone missing or were spent with little tangible benefit, according to the audit. And as the accountants got to work, Johnson discovered 39 bottles of fine wine, including Château-neuf-du-Pape, left in the mayor’s office by his predecessor.

A separate police investigation, led by John Yates, the Scotland Yard detective who headed the cash for honours inquiry, has uncovered evidence of corruption that it believes will produce criminal prosecutions.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4087310.ece

Nice to see our money being spent wisely. :wall:

[Craterus]

According to a Tory-paid-for audit? :laugh4: