View Full Version : bugs in battle on hold formation and position
Swoosh So
10-03-2002, 15:31
This is quite an annoying thing in the game ill give an example i set 4 spearman units to form a spear wall when fighting some units turn 90 degrees exposing their flank! has anyone else encountered this? surely this is a bug its happened on several occasions with feudal sargents and chivalric too, Very annoying little bug.
Swooooooooooooooooosh
That only happens to me if I order the unit to move somewhere. If the center of mass ... er ... formation moves in a direction more than a certain distance, the formation will turn in that direction, march that way, and turn back to the desired direction once there.
I notice this mostly when I have a defensive formation on a hill with spears in the front and bowmen behind them. Usually the center of the enemy's attack isn't directed at the center of my formation, so I have to adjust. Sometimes the best way is to move troops that are on the far flank to a position on the other flank (so the remaining troops that don't move can continue to fight, which wouldn't be possible if I moved the whole formation laterrally one unit's width).
What happens is that the unit will rotate to march. This is particularly annoying with archers as I'm always using a wide formation when fighting with them, and one flank of the marching unit tends to stick outside my defensive spearmen wall.
The solution to my problem? Switch the formation to a squarish or narrow-front formation, *then* march them to the other side. Once there, put them back into the wide formation. This way they stay entirely within the protection of my defensive line.
How realistic is the rotate-formation technique when repositioning? You try to maintain a good formatioin with the formation moving at an odd angle http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif It's much easier to train men to march forwards in the direction of the formation than at some odd angle. At least that's how it appears to me.
Swoosh So
10-03-2002, 20:18
I mean generally i set up a spear wall and leave it to take the impact of the enemies charge while moving my other units to flanks or supporting the spear line, they just turn by themselves while in combat, whereas in shogun they held their formation till they routed or beat the enemy
This happened to me as well, but only when the unit was in hold formation but not in hold position. Are you sure that they were both in hold form. and hold pos.? If you set both it should work.
Swoosh So
10-03-2002, 21:15
When defending all my foot troops are in hold position so that they dont chase so far without me realising. But you maybe right i may have just forotten http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Swoosh So (edited 10-03-2002).]
AgentBif
10-03-2002, 23:05
The hold position thing bothers me with archers... I'd like them to stay put even if their target marches out of range.
As it is, they start marching into other units field of fire or out in front where the cavalry are coming down and it's ANNOYING AS HELL.
When archers are set on hold position, they should _hold position_.
bif
AgentBif
10-03-2002, 23:07
Oh, and I don't want them rotating formation either!
bif
Yes, I know the feeling with both spears and archers. Sometimes they'll stay where they are, yet other times they just feel like wheeling around. I wish there was an order "Don't move at all, please".......
Yoko Kono
10-04-2002, 03:49
Quote Originally posted by AgentBif:
When archers are set on hold position, they should _hold position_.
bif[/QUOTE]
they do...unless of course you take them off fire at will and then assign them a target in which case they target that unit no matter what
this rotating in 'hold formation' and 'hold position' happens relatively too often - exlusively in situations when your 400-600 size small brigade has to face much-much bigger invasion. seems like they're trying to "face" their attacker and thus rotating themseves. and often there is nothing you can do to help yourselves.
In rome i had ca 400 feudal seargeants with silver shields and three packs of archers when one rotten pope desided to take care his earthly matters. with 2000+ elite troops mostly feudal foot knights and royal knights. looked like i'm doomed big time, but when i saw first wave, i had some second thoughts - this was entirely a cavalry attack with mostly royal knights 20 a piece. I even thought that this one will be the easy one! but then this pope showed such military finesse ... and that was quick ... i had three FS standing on a small slope as spear wall and one unit in reserve, archers behind - all in "hold your guts" - his attack was en masse full frontal engagement - 15-20 seconds all looked fine - everybody was standing rock solid, when one unit after other started to open my frontline - his knights quickly poured in and behind my sergeants and chewed them up ... with only one unit as my tactical reserve i was helplessly watching this slaughter ... only few survived ...
this actually dont happen too often as mostly you attack and counterattack and dont have to rely on this "last line of defence"
Neither Archers nor spearmen should rotate to face their attackers unless they have been targetted by you to attack a specific unit.
If thats the case they will always rotate to maintain their front to that unit. I noticed this when fighting the Horde as they have a habit of galloping along the front of your spearwall. At the time I was concentrating my missiles at their Heavy horse and as it galloped past my entire archer line wheeled and stuck their right flanks out through the sheild wall to get chewed up by the Mongol horse. After that I made sure I didn't use the targetting feature.
If you don't want your units to wheel when you move them try holding down the ALT key when you give the movement order. I think that tells the unit to redeploy without whilst maintaining its existing alignment. This should work on groups to.
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Didz
Fortis balore et armis
Nobunaga0611
10-04-2002, 06:26
With archers, if I want them to stay exactly how they are, I just put them on hold formation, and hold position, and they usually just stay exactly so for me, even if I target a specific unit. However, I have experienced the turning of my spears in a wall, when I know for sure that they're on hold pos. and formation. It annoys me to no end, cause they are easier to rout then. I understand that maybe its because some units have 'irresistable charge', and thus effect the formation of the unit, but I've had a group of feudal sergeants rotate one of my swiss pikemen units. Doesn't make sense to me. oh well.
Swoosh So
10-04-2002, 13:09
The reason i use the spear wall is because in my campaigns i usually am heavily outnumbered, its just silly to see a spear unit expose its flank when i havent even touched it, Ive played probably 900+ games of shogun online and i have never seen that happen, I hope its being looked into cause you cant keep your eye on everything all the time, at the mo im using a backup unit to cover when this happens but its a pain in the *&*7.
TheLastEuropean
10-04-2002, 20:33
Archers on Hold Formation and Position will not move an inch no matter what they target. They ONLY time they will move under these settings is if they are touching another unit. The program doesn't like units overlapping so it auto-moves them into a clear space for you. In fact, if you try wheeling them with ALT-R they ignore it and won't move. I've found you have to deselect 'Hold Position' in order to wheel them.
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