Hakonarson
10-18-2002, 09:51
Since I dis the whole concept of the chiv and feudal foot types (and also really the Knights too....) I thought I'd add a little to the debate instead of bashing forever.
so what would I use instead of them?
well basically I'd jsut use spearmen with armour, valour & weapon upgrades - as your society evolves along increasingly technological lines your spearmen will get better! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I'd add military order foot sergeants tho - they would start armoured, be disciplined and only be allowed where you have a chapter house. They would be spearmen and crossbowmen (ie 2 troop types)
As for the horse - well that's a little different.
At teh start of the period I'd have Milites - basically Norman Knights. In 3/4 mail armour, unbarded horses, and using their spears as much overarm as underarm. Normandy and Siciliy would get +1 valour for these guys because hte Normans weer acknowledged as teh best knights of their time.
About 1150 (historically) knightly armour increased to cover extremeties - hands and feet - with mail. Horses remained unbarded tho.
by about 1200 barding had become moer common, and the high-backed saddle was prety much fully evolved, allowing the lance to be couched for the charge without knocking the rider off his horse at impact!
Barding was common a little earlier in hte East - Byzantium, Hungary and the Outremer being teeh inspirations for it's reintroduction to the West.
By 1250 coat of plates was becoming available, and it was common by 1266, as were great helms.
By 1300 the "classic" knight had pretty much fully evolved - lacking only the solid plate which evolved in the later part of the 14th century.
So to me there are basically 2 types of knights - feudal "irregulars" - owing service to their lord, impetuous, etc., and military orders - still impetuous, but diciplined and officered.
Add these to "milites" and "knights" for the evolution of the high cantled saddle allowing a charge with a couched lance and that's the basic knights defined.
There is still room for royal knights as a sort of super disciplined body guard - there were a few such as the Gentleman Pensioners in England, Household Gendarmes in France & Burgundy & parts of Italy - but they occured later on in the time frame rather than earlier.
Lastly there's the German institution of Ministrales - a sort of unfree knight, tied to his land or lord, ranking higher than a sergeant but often not altogether enthusiastic!! Maybe something simple like a -1 valour to knights raised in some German provinces would suffice!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Pretty much all the improvements in arms and armour can be accounted for in game by the "normal" upgrades.
so what would I use instead of them?
well basically I'd jsut use spearmen with armour, valour & weapon upgrades - as your society evolves along increasingly technological lines your spearmen will get better! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I'd add military order foot sergeants tho - they would start armoured, be disciplined and only be allowed where you have a chapter house. They would be spearmen and crossbowmen (ie 2 troop types)
As for the horse - well that's a little different.
At teh start of the period I'd have Milites - basically Norman Knights. In 3/4 mail armour, unbarded horses, and using their spears as much overarm as underarm. Normandy and Siciliy would get +1 valour for these guys because hte Normans weer acknowledged as teh best knights of their time.
About 1150 (historically) knightly armour increased to cover extremeties - hands and feet - with mail. Horses remained unbarded tho.
by about 1200 barding had become moer common, and the high-backed saddle was prety much fully evolved, allowing the lance to be couched for the charge without knocking the rider off his horse at impact!
Barding was common a little earlier in hte East - Byzantium, Hungary and the Outremer being teeh inspirations for it's reintroduction to the West.
By 1250 coat of plates was becoming available, and it was common by 1266, as were great helms.
By 1300 the "classic" knight had pretty much fully evolved - lacking only the solid plate which evolved in the later part of the 14th century.
So to me there are basically 2 types of knights - feudal "irregulars" - owing service to their lord, impetuous, etc., and military orders - still impetuous, but diciplined and officered.
Add these to "milites" and "knights" for the evolution of the high cantled saddle allowing a charge with a couched lance and that's the basic knights defined.
There is still room for royal knights as a sort of super disciplined body guard - there were a few such as the Gentleman Pensioners in England, Household Gendarmes in France & Burgundy & parts of Italy - but they occured later on in the time frame rather than earlier.
Lastly there's the German institution of Ministrales - a sort of unfree knight, tied to his land or lord, ranking higher than a sergeant but often not altogether enthusiastic!! Maybe something simple like a -1 valour to knights raised in some German provinces would suffice!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Pretty much all the improvements in arms and armour can be accounted for in game by the "normal" upgrades.