Modern dress code (rant) [Archive]

Adrian II

05-05-2008, 20:48

Went to the beach this afternoon. For locals: I went to Wijk aan Zee, south side. The weather was great, the beach was clean, there were kites, kite-surfers, land yachts. I actually swam for one (1) whole minute in the freezing surf. When I managed to stagger out again, pink as a new-born baby, I had someone punch my chest to get my heart beating again. I'm getting too old for this du jour]. Anyway, late in the afternoon we had some drinks on a terrace, went to the bathroom to make ourselves look presentable, and then had diner at the Hotel Sonnevanck, smack in the middle of that cozy little town.

That's when he struck. Recognize him?

https://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9444/duanehansontouristsnz7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Species: Homo leisurewearensis (icecreamconeiformus)
Kingdom: Animalia
Class: n.a.

They were all around us. There was no escape from the sight of their fat ugly bodies, their vacuous stares, their idiotic opinions and obscenely loud mobile phone conversations. Their kids were either running between the tables or making scenes because they refused to eat anything but their fries. The parents, mostly dressed just like their kids, seemed oblivious to the plight of the pleasant, well-mannered staff in their pristine uniforms who were forced to negotiate their crawling cretins and no doubt fight the urge to slap the prawn mayonaise straight into their parents' inane faces.

Why, oh why

do parents dress like children these days?
do children not behave at all these days?
do visitors, clients, guests and tourists invariably look sloppier than their hosts these days?

I demand answers.

Statistically speaking at least some orgahs should belong in this classless class of godawful morons who consider public life to be a safari (because they dress like it) and fail to understand that they themselves are the real animals.

Well? What have you got to say for yourselves?
https://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5499/tourists2xs7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

drone

05-05-2008, 20:59

I thought Europe was too expensive for Americans these days. :inquisitive:

HoreTore

05-05-2008, 21:00

Don't worry Adrian, keep up getting older and you'll soon become one of them... You know you cannot resist the call....

Adrian II

05-05-2008, 21:03

Don't worry Adrian, keep up getting older and you'll soon become one of them...Become what? One of the children? I'll become senile first.
I thought Europe was too expensive for Americans these days. :inquisitive:I'll take any busload of Americans over this home-grown lot. American children for instance are far better behaved.

HoreTore

05-05-2008, 21:12

Become what? One of the children? I'll become senile first.

Grumpy, eh? And so it begins...

Marshal Murat

05-05-2008, 21:13

I thought Europe was too expensive for Americans these days.
That's what happens when you assume! People who live in the nation tend to view it as some sort of 'vacation' or something.

Vladimir

05-05-2008, 21:13

"Class: N/A" :laugh4: :2thumbsup:

From your title I was going to suggest nudist colonies as the answer. However it seems you have a problem with fat people and children too. I don't know how many fat children nudists there are but if I were to see a bunch of them, I would loose more respect for humanity.

Perhaps you're fighting in the wrong field. Don't go to tourist locations for the attractions, go for the tourists! You can have great fun pointing out and taking pictures of these creatures. Maybe you could film a documentry and get some famous actor to narrate. Don't give them power over you, and remember that they can smell fear.

:bow:

HoreTore

05-05-2008, 21:17

I say Adrian, a norwegian "danseband"-festival is just what you need!

Adrian II

05-05-2008, 21:18

Grumpy, eh? And so it begins...Oh, get off it. One female of the species even brought two big, ugly, restless, incessantly barking dogs into the restaurant and demanded a four-seat table for herself and her ungainly companions.

If I were the owner I would welcome her and ask: 'And how would Madam like little Fifi, medium or well-done?' :stare:

Samurai Waki

05-05-2008, 21:46

I completely agree Adrian. Although I was raised under a pseudo-Democratic Nazi Dictatorship, where although we had relatively free reign of the house, and our lives, it had better be in line with the disciplines of my father. :laugh4:

Anyways, my daughters haven't quite began speaking yet, but I've told my wife repeatedly, that I demand good behavior "please and thank you" "arms off the table" "Don't Talk while eating" etc. etc. etc. And also a fairly strict dress code (No Belly Shirts until I'm too old to see anymore) :laugh4: I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to deal with the disciplining (obviously the belt or the back of the hand generation I grew up with is no longer acceptable) So, I'm going to have to read a book or something.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

05-05-2008, 21:59

It has to do with people of low social class having enough money to mix with their betters. They probably think you're incledibly stuck up in your linen suit and bowtie (or whatever you wear out in the summer:beam:).

In any case, the current ecenomic townturn should have cleared your terrace in a couple of years.

Yay! Povery!:clown:

Husar

05-05-2008, 22:14

You can't expect everyone to be as posh as you are, some people enjoy life and wear what they like to wear, who are you to judge them based on their clothing anyway? :inquisitive:

Dogs also have a right to free bark and children need to unfold their playfulness somewhere, if you're too old to take that, you might want to consider going elsewhere.

Adrian II

05-05-2008, 22:18

I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to deal with the disciplining (obviously the belt or the back of the hand generation I grew up with is no longer acceptable) So, I'm going to have to read a book or something.Forget the book, you don't need one. Do as the oldies did, only without the physical aspect.

Hit them where it hurts most. A progressive penal regime of cuts in pocket money, computer time, party-going and holiday treats (more or less in that order) will work wonders.
Reward them for good behaviour.
Be an example. Introduce a piggy bank and have every family member that swears, belches, creates an unnecessary row or eats food with their hands drop a 20 cent coin into it, and this includes you. At year's end (or earlier if the piggy threatens to explode...) the money is taken out and spent on a family outing.
Don't be too rigid. For instance I discourage all swearing and cursing, but if done with style, a very occasional, well-placed, judicious curse or swear-word goes unpunished in my house.*
* My oldest (12) has assembled quite an arsenal of these, though he rarely gets the chance to vent them. For obvious reasons I can't repeat them here, not even in Dutch, though only Dutch members would appreciae them. OK, just one, with dots in the appropriate spot to avoid TosaInu's (Dutch) wrath. I remember driving him to school one morning (his bike broke down) and he forgot to bring his rucksack with books and stuff, which he discovered only when we were in front of the school. He slapped his forehead and said 'Kukele...!' wherein the dots represent a Dutch slang word for the female genitalia. That had me lauging all the way back to the house (at 90 m/h...).

The Wizard

05-05-2008, 22:36

"Kukele..."? Oh come on. He could've done better than that.

Rhyfelwyr

05-05-2008, 23:03

I think raising children with discipline can have mixed effects. My parents for example were pretty strict (well I still live with them but a bit old for grounding now). Not really in a disciplinarian sense, more these middle class parents that want to raise 'cotton-wool kids' because they think everyone is a paedophile.

Anyway it sort of worked on me. I'm never cheeky, tend not to argue or do anything bad. Although not long ago they flipped the other way around with me because having been stuck inside for 18 years I've got a bit (as in completely) reclusive and I barely leave my room.

My brother on the other hand is a bad tempered ****. The things he calls my parents really can't be typed here. The thing is though they've become scared to discipline him because then he won't work for his exams, and they don't want to be left looking bad.

So if I ever have children I will not raise them will anything more than basic principles. Because being too strict, from what I've seen, will either turn children into spoilt-brat rebellious teenagers. Or if it actually works, then they will just end up being reclusive, nervous people who can't think for themselves.

Papewaio

05-05-2008, 23:10

That had me lauging all the way back to the house (at 90 m/h...).

Grumpy :director: and driving :driver: at 90 meters an hour... sounds like old age. :laugh4:

So what is the valid dress code in the area you frequent?

I think you might faint if you had to put up with Australian beaches budgy smugglers...

Crazed Rabbit

05-05-2008, 23:26

I can relate. I went to the fanciest restaurant in a 20k person town recently ($20 dollar meals and whatnot) dressed in jeans, a buttoned shirt, and a scuffed up leather jacket. Amazingly, I was in perhaps the better dressed half of my age group and gender. Why go to such a place in a sweatshirt and basketball shorts?

It doesn't seem right.

CR

InsaneApache

05-05-2008, 23:32

Could be worse.

An Englishman abroad, it's David Niven, Stewart Grainger, Nigel Havers.......the look imperial leisure!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v8VAt5hO8s

:balloon2: :clown:

Somebody Else

05-05-2008, 23:42

Mm. There does seem to be a dress code to life nowadays... I tried to get in with a pin-striped suit - and they refused, I was only let in naked and covered in slime, of all things. Funny thing is, now that I am through, I can wear whatever I like. Dunno who organised it all, but he or she must be nuts.

SE

Ice

05-06-2008, 00:00

SwordsMaster

05-06-2008, 00:11

Definitely agree and relate to this one. Growing up in Alicante - see the home village thread - and it being the beach spot that it is, in summer, flip flops and hawaian shirts come out. But the way I think about it, if you want to wear them, do your damn homework and make sure you look good in them before you do. It's a question of personal responsibility.

There is nothing worse than two lobster red overcooked sealions in surfer trunks and sunglasses. Like I can't live without that red, patchy, sunburnt bellyfat of theirs within my sight.

Don't get me wrong, they have a right to dress in whatever way they fancy. And I have a right to treat them like the idiots they look like.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-06-2008, 00:34

Forget the book, you don't need one. Do as the oldies did, only without the physical aspect.

Hit them where it hurts most. A progressive penal regime of cuts in pocket money, computer time, party-going and holiday treats (more or less in that order) will work wonders.
Reward them for good behaviour.
Be an example. Introduce a piggy bank and have every family member that swears, belches, creates an unnecessary row or eats food with their hands drop a 20 cent coin into it, and this includes you. At year's end (or earlier if the piggy threatens to explode...) the money is taken out and spent on a family outing.
Don't be too rigid. For instance I discourage all swearing and cursing, but if done with style, a very occasional, well-placed, judicious curse or swear-word goes unpunished in my house.*

Statistically, 1 out of every 2 of your children will swear excessively once they become teenagers. Same with anything that is enforced in this manner.

As for style of dress, people place too much importance on it. I think expensive clothes are dumb.

I can relate. I went to the fanciest restaurant in a 20k person town recently ($20 dollar meals and whatnot) dressed in jeans, a buttoned shirt, and a scuffed up leather jacket. Amazingly, I was in perhaps the better dressed half of my age group and gender. Why go to such a place in a sweatshirt and basketball shorts?

It doesn't seem right.

CR

That's the real question ~D

Gregoshi

05-06-2008, 00:47

Excuse me while I change...my Hawaiian shirt has a tear in the seam and my sock garters are all frayed (which isn't that big of a deal if you are wearing pants).

Adrian II

05-06-2008, 01:09

I say Adrian, a norwegian "danseband"-festival is just what you need!Is this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1gnXBZ6X7M) what you mean? Oh, I can dig that once in a while, and I have survived much worse.

I once went to a concert by Dutch rural rock band 'Normaal', literally a barnyard party, where an audience of two thousand drunk farmers and farm hands stormed the podium and bodily pushed it back a full three yards. They have a... reputation is the word. People fight, puke, drop unconscious, destroy all furniture they get their hands on, engage in 'beer (as opposed to mud) wrestling contests' and drive motorbikes and tractors right through the hall whenever that band plays.

I love it, just as I love Australian football. But there is a huge difference between going to a concert actively looking for that kind of fun and people, and having them forced upon you when you don't want it. When I take my family out to diner I don't want my kids puked on and I don't want to be doused in beer and slapped on the back by a six feet seven inch ham-fisted yokel so hard it sends my glasses flying to the opposite side of the street.
Don't get me wrong, they have a right to dress in whatever way they fancy. And I have a right to treat them like the idiots they look like.Exactly my sentiment! :bow:
You can't expect everyone to be as posh as you are, some people enjoy life and wear what they like to wear, who are you to judge them based on their clothing anyway? :inquisitive: You're one of them, aren't you? :mellow:

Say it! :brood:

Ice

05-06-2008, 01:47

Big King Sanctaphrax

05-06-2008, 01:53

As for style of dress, people place too much importance on it. I think expensive clothes are dumb.

Buying awful clothes for huge amounts of cash just for the name is bad, for sure. But if you want a well cut suit, you've got to pay, and you can't put a price on looking good. In any case, a lot of the little things in fashion are free: it doesn't cost anything to wear a brown belt with brown shoes, or to put the dimple in your tie properly.

Louis VI the Fat

05-06-2008, 02:12

Went to the beach this afternoon.

Anyway, late in the afternoon we had some drinks on a terrace, went to the bathroom to make ourselves look presentable, and then had diner at the Hotel Sonnevanck, smack in the middle of that cozy little town.

I took the liberty of googling (http://www.hotel-sonnevanck.nl/) that restaurant. A statue of Betty Boop stands on the counter, people dress in a casual manner, the menu is not in French, the priciest and finest item on the menu is 'T-bone steak met Beurre de Paris'... :inquisitive:

https://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6848/dannydejong20050hl1.jpg

*insert pesky remarks about Adrian mistaking a beach bistro for fine dining here* :beam:

~~~

More seriously: I must wholeheartedly agree with your take on modern public behaviour though. It is terrible. Almost exactly one century ago, Proust wrote his famous novel 'À la recherche du temps perdu'. With scenes of him and his classes eating in the beach resort restaurant of Cabourg’s Grand Hotel, the peasants and fishermen outside, their noses pressed against the window, staring at such novelties as people eating with knife and fork and refraining from burping contests for entertainment.

Now though, these peasants are all middle-class. They are no longer outside, they occupy the table next to you. I don't know how this came about. For lack of proper insight, I blame modern social-democracy, my default position.

Actually, no. Their mere emancipation is not to blame. The lower classes were much better behaved a few decades ago. Back then, lower classes still strove to become middle-class, middle-classes to become upper-class, upper-classes to distinguish thmselves from every new wave of arrivistes. All tried to assume the tastes and refinements of the established classes. Emancipation meant to uplift oneself above the class of one's birth, for each class. This whole idea of civilising oneself seems lost. I think there is an emancipation of stupidity, of barbarism, of uncouthness. People know they are and they take pride in it, cultivate it.
I like relaxed social manners and customs. A Hawaii shirt and sneakers are not inapropriate per se. I can also understand a simple lack of manners. What I will never get used to though, is people knowing they are a public nuisance and lacking every whiff of shame about it, even taking pride in it, in being a social imbecile.

Not to troll, but I think this problem has hit the Netherlands even harder than other places in Europe. The difference with Belgians and Germans is striking. In volume of speech, social restraint and modesty, dress manners, the Netherlands and it's immediate neighbours belong to different planets. Currently, there is not a more uncouth nation in the civilised world than the Netherlands. Social experiments gone horribly wrong? A social collapse of Dutch society, in the wake of it's political upheavals of the past few years? I don't know.

PanzerJaeger

05-06-2008, 04:11

I have a difficult time with overweight people.

Genetics can be unforgiving, but save the money you would be using on nice meals and buy a gym membership, please.

Consider yourself lucky, Adrian. America is 10 times fatter, and 20 times less interested in fixing it. Its even becoming socially acceptable - even, attractive!

If you can "stomach" it, witness: squashing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv3tWFlnPbk)

If thats got you hot, check out her friend, Sexy Mistress Xtina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmbB5aWVOsA)

ANd they want to ban thin runway models!! :shame:

Papewaio

05-06-2008, 04:16

Modern life which puts more emphasis on oneself on feeling good and relativity. After all how can there be such a thing as bad manners if everything is relative.

Don't bother with evidence, facts and the finer things in life. Just sit back, be comfortable and gorge oneself on everything while not actually analyzing what one is sensing.

DemonArchangel

05-06-2008, 04:31

*snip*
ANd they want to ban thin runway models!! :shame:

There's a difference between "thin" and "holy :daisy: she's starving herself to death!"

Fragony

05-06-2008, 06:04

So selfish to bother others with your repulsive mass when they want to enjoy a fine meal. But then again, if you want a fine meal what on earth were you doing at a joint at the beach? Overpriced bad food is the rule there.

Veho Nex

05-06-2008, 06:16

Dude hawaiian shirts own. Add a camera an old braud and pair of shorts and your the coolest guy in town

Viking

05-06-2008, 08:28

Good gracious, the last time I actually noticed what kind of outfit someone was wearing was years ago. :beam: Do not judge a book by its cover they say, whatever that means. :laugh4:

Adrian II

05-06-2008, 09:47

My dear critics, you are looking at Teflon man. I wasn't wearing a tie, I'm not a snob, I love a good brawl, I've been in beer fights (Dutchmen, too, have a right to beer arms) and I don't hate or loath fat people (remember I was the one who first warned that after banning smoking, the anti-fun lifestyle brigade would go for banning fatness and fatty foods?). And Louis, it wasn't that hotel, I made a mistake. That beach joint is where we had a drink and where we changed.

Oh, and people who think this is about social class reveal more about themselves than about society.

Going out to dine dressed like a slob is a statement alright. It says 'I don't care where I am, I don't care what anyone else thinks and I don't care what I look like' all at the same time. It's an outlook that says nothing is special anymore, nothing is worth celebrating by cordoning it off from the rest of daily life. A classic concert is like a game of pool is like a day of fishing is like going to the cinema is like looking at a famous picture in a museum is like eating chips on the dockside is like taking a crap during a lazy Sunday afternoon. It turns life into a grey, tasteless, joyless sausage with no beginning and no end.

And hey, if you look at their faces, that's exactly what their life seems to be.

Husar

05-06-2008, 10:19

I hope that's sarcasm.
Mostly, yes.

You're one of them, aren't you? :mellow:
Judge for yourself:
https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/husar1985/stud.jpg
Yes, I only have this recent pic so you gotta live with seeing parts of that pullover only for now. :juggle2:

Adrian II

05-06-2008, 11:32

Judge for yourself:
https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/husar1985/stud.jpg
Yes, I only have this recent pic so you gotta live with seeing parts of that pullover only for now. :juggle2: The guy next to you is wearing a shirt. If h is a friend of yours, I think you are safe. But only by association. :brood:

Now, give me a real slob to sink my teeth in! Come on, there has got to be one of them on this board.

PBI

05-06-2008, 13:09

Why obsess so much about what people wear? In my view if someone isn't causing any trouble then what they are wearing should be irrelevant.

For instance, in my town most nightclubs have a policy that you will not be allowed in if you are not wearing a proper shirt and shoes (i.e. no T-shirts or shoes). However I don't see what they hope to achieve by this policy since the nightclubs simply end up full of well-dressed people drunk out of their skulls and starting fights with strangers rather than full of scruffy slobs doing the same thing. If some drunken moron tries to start a fight with me I don't care what he's wearing, and if he's not, I can ignore him. As far as I can tell, the only thing this system proves is that a moron is still a moron whether he's in a dinner jacket or a tracksuit.

I personally like to dress up smartly if I'm going to a fancy restaurant, but if someone else doesn't want to, it's none of my business. They have as much right to be there and to enjoy themselves as I do, if I don't like how they are dressed, it's my problem, not theirs. I can always just look at something else.

Rhyfelwyr

05-06-2008, 13:28

Tracksuits are the way to go. :2thumbsup:

Fragony

05-06-2008, 13:38

Why obsess so much about what people wear? In my view if someone isn't causing any trouble then what they are wearing should be irrelevant.

I apreciate a certain degree of etiquette myselve, when I go to a good restaurant I don't want to be surrounded by people wearing trainingsuits, or campingsmokings as we call it.

Andres

05-06-2008, 13:44

And pets don't belong in a good restaurant :brood:

:7chef: Filet pur au poivre crème pour Monsieur Fifi? Bleu, saignant ou bien cuit?

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Fifi.jpg

I mean, come on :wall:

naut

05-06-2008, 13:52

I guess it comes down to them having freedom until it infringes on your freedom. They can be slobs with poorly behaved children, hey that's fine, it's not going to have any repercussions on my life. But, if their kids start throwing food or infringing on my space/time/freedom/enjoyment then it becomes personal.

As far as I can tell, the only thing this system proves is that a moron is still a moron whether he's in a dinner jacket or a tracksuit.
QFT! I've experienced that many, many times. I generally try to steer clear of people like that, although they are often alright if they aren't around their friends (mob rule/group think I guess).

AHH! I sound old. Better go pick a fight and/or chase after pretty girls down at the Uni bar. ~:cheers: :duel:

Adrian II

05-06-2008, 14:41

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Fifi.jpg

I mean, come on :wall:That's Husar! I recognize him from the other picture! :stunned:

atheotes

05-06-2008, 16:21

Why obsess so much about what people wear? In my view if someone isn't causing any trouble then what they are wearing should be irrelevant.

I personally like to dress up smartly if I'm going to a fancy restaurant, but if someone else doesn't want to, it's none of my business. They have as much right to be there and to enjoy themselves as I do, if I don't like how they are dressed, it's my problem, not theirs. I can always just look at something else.

My views exactly.... if i want to eat at a place where everybody is well dressed i will go to a restaurant that has dress codes and imposes them... :juggle2:

PBI

05-06-2008, 16:56

[QUOTE=Rythmic]I guess it comes down to them having freedom until it infringes on your freedom. They can be slobs with poorly behaved children, hey that's fine, it's not going to have any repercussions on my life. But, if their kids start throwing food or infringing on my space/time/freedom/enjoyment then it becomes personal.
[QUOTE]

I quite agree about rowdy kids or noisy smelly pets, I was simply referring to how people dress. As far as I'm concerned, if someone keeps themself to themself they can wear whatever they want and it won't bother me.

Regarding pets in restaurants, that doesn't really happen here (UK) except for guide dogs, the only place I've seen that is on the continent. We certainly have more than our fair share of badly-dressed people and oikish kids though.:thumbsdown:

Noob question: What does QFT stand for? In my world it means Quantum Field Theory but I'm guessing that's not the sense you were using it in.

InsaneApache

05-06-2008, 17:06

Quiz Fire Toad.

Viking

05-06-2008, 18:04

I quite agree about rowdy kids or noisy smelly pets, I was simply referring to how people dress. As far as I'm concerned, if someone keeps themself to themself they can wear whatever they want and it won't bother me.

Regarding pets in restaurants, that doesn't really happen here (UK) except for guide dogs, the only place I've seen that is on the continent. We certainly have more than our fair share of badly-dressed people and oikish kids though.:thumbsdown:

Noob question: What does QFT stand for? In my world it means Quantum Field Theory but I'm guessing that's not the sense you were using it in.

Now that's a nice abbrevation. Here, it merely stands for "Quoted For Truth".

King Henry V

05-06-2008, 22:26

I took the liberty of googling (http://www.hotel-sonnevanck.nl/) that restaurant. A statue of Betty Boop stands on the counter, people dress in a casual manner, the menu is not in French, the priciest and finest item on the menu is 'T-bone steak met Beurre de Paris'... :inquisitive:

https://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6848/dannydejong20050hl1.jpg

*insert pesky remarks about Adrian mistaking a beach bistro for fine dining here* :beam:

~~~

More seriously: I must wholeheartedly agree with your take on modern public behaviour though. It is terrible. Almost exactly one century ago, Proust wrote his famous novel 'À la recherche du temps perdu'. With scenes of him and his classes eating in the beach resort restaurant of Cabourg’s Grand Hotel, the peasants and fishermen outside, their noses pressed against the window, staring at such novelties as people eating with knife and fork and refraining from burping contests for entertainment.

Now though, these peasants are all middle-class. They are no longer outside, they occupy the table next to you. I don't know how this came about. For lack of proper insight, I blame modern social-democracy, my default position.

Actually, no. Their mere emancipation is not to blame. The lower classes were much better behaved a few decades ago. Back then, lower classes still strove to become middle-class, middle-classes to become upper-class, upper-classes to distinguish thmselves from every new wave of arrivistes. All tried to assume the tastes and refinements of the established classes. Emancipation meant to uplift oneself above the class of one's birth, for each class. This whole idea of civilising oneself seems lost. I think there is an emancipation of stupidity, of barbarism, of uncouthness. People know they are and they take pride in it, cultivate it.
I like relaxed social manners and customs. A Hawaii shirt and sneakers are not inapropriate per se. I can also understand a simple lack of manners. What I will never get used to though, is people knowing they are a public nuisance and lacking every whiff of shame about it, even taking pride in it, in being a social imbecile.

Not to troll, but I think this problem has hit the Netherlands even harder than other places in Europe. The difference with Belgians and Germans is striking. In volume of speech, social restraint and modesty, dress manners, the Netherlands and it's immediate neighbours belong to different planets. Currently, there is not a more uncouth nation in the civilised world than the Netherlands. Social experiments gone horribly wrong? A social collapse of Dutch society, in the wake of it's political upheavals of the past few years? I don't know.
A most outstanding post, my dear sir, I do hope you were not being ironic. Apart from all the socio-politico-mumbo-jumbo effects of May 1968, there has been the marked degredation of stylistic values. No longer does even the well-to-do man flâne in a superbly tailored suit and a fedora worn at a suitably jaunty angle, rather he plods about in some ghastly two-piece, single-breasted, ill-fitting, off-the-peg suit imported from some factory in the Far East, his hat long gone, so that we can all get a view of his shiny bald pate. Even his tie is some grotesque thing, a monstrously thick affair that looks as though it could double up as the fellow's noose with which to hang himself.
Until the anarcho-dandyist regains power, I believe tourists of this kind will remain a thing of the past. http://xs227.xs.to/xs227/08192/casablanca2862.jpg

LittleGrizzly

05-07-2008, 11:56

Im not a suit kind of guy, weddings and funerals only. Recently went to malaga and went to a few resturants in just shorts and a t-shirt nothing all that up market, in the evening then i would wear jeans and a nice t-shirt which is my version of smartly dressed...

Vladimir

05-08-2008, 15:15

A most outstanding post, my dear sir, I do hope you were not being ironic. Apart from all the socio-politico-mumbo-jumbo effects of May 1968, there has been the marked degredation of stylistic values. No longer does even the well-to-do man flâne in a superbly tailored suit and a fedora worn at a suitably jaunty angle, rather he plods about in some ghastly two-piece, single-breasted, ill-fitting, off-the-peg suit imported from some factory in the Far East, his hat long gone, so that we can all get a view of his shiny bald pate. Even his tie is some grotesque thing, a monstrously thick affair that looks as though it could double up as the fellow's noose with which to hang himself.
Until the anarcho-dandyist regains power, I believe tourists of this kind will remain a thing of the past. http://xs227.xs.to/xs227/08192/casablanca2862.jpg

Yes and perhaps the women could wear:

https://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3123/burkini2xw7.jpg

Or hopefully:
https://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9324/itrftwlilkimoneworld200st1.jpg

King Henry V

05-08-2008, 15:58

Oh Good Lord no, you misunderstand me. I am not trying to say that bathers sould be modestly dressed (though seeing some of the people who look like Moby Dick's beached cousins, I might not be such a bad idea), rather that people generally should be well dressed, and display a flair and panache that is sadly all to lacking today. Besides, sea bathing itself, unless it is to cure some sort of ailment or to achieve a sporting endeavour, is really quite a gauche recreation.

Slyspy

05-08-2008, 19:36

Going out to dine dressed like a slob is a statement alright. It says 'I don't care where I am, I don't care what anyone else thinks and I don't care what I look like' all at the same time. It's an outlook that says nothing is special anymore, nothing is worth celebrating by cordoning it off from the rest of daily life. A classic concert is like a game of pool is like a day of fishing is like going to the cinema is like looking at a famous picture in a museum is like eating chips on the dockside is like taking a crap during a lazy Sunday afternoon. It turns life into a grey, tasteless, joyless sausage with no beginning and no end.

And hey, if you look at their faces, that's exactly what their life seems to be.

Quite so.

Goofball

05-08-2008, 19:58

Just do what I do:

When you want to enjoy an evening out, go to places that your average slob can't afford.

Banquo's Ghost

05-09-2008, 06:36

Just do what I do:

When you want to enjoy an evening out, go to places that your average slob can't afford.

Sadly these days, some of the worst dressed people are also the richest. In addition, many of these fellows did not pick up manners along with their millions.

It's what happens when one allows trade through the front door. :no:

:wink:

Mithrandir

05-09-2008, 07:18

First, if ever we create a senior senior member, you're my first nomination Adrian, this thread had me smiling the whole time I was reading it thanks to your posts :laugh4:

second: Having experience working in a restaurant, I may be biased, but I really have to say I'd rather have 20 people who dress like a tramp and show some common decency and manners than 2 people who are personally dressed by armani and feel too good to show some manners...

Adrian II

05-09-2008, 08:11

second: Having experience working in a restaurant, I may be biased, but I really have to say I'd rather have 20 people who dress like a tramp and show some common decency and manners than 2 people who are personally dressed by armani and feel too good to show some manners...Of course, the choicest clothes won't make a difference if someone chews with his mouth open, talks too loud or is being rude. Abusing staff by the way is worse than being rude to other customers because the latter aren't subject to supervision and don't depend on it for their livelihood.

I believe we could all learn something from Argentine. A colleague of mine was there during the depth of the financial crisis. He noticed that people would still go out in the afternoon as stylishly as ever, the women dressed in their only proper dress with a little nothing around their necks and their worn-out pumps restored with a bit of paint or charcoal, the men in their only decent suits, with canoe hats, breast pocket handkerchiefs and all. They would sit on a terrace and order glasses of water because they couldn't afford anything else, and they would still be charming and joke and flirt and discuss politics, films and love as if their lives depended from it, and all while the one available newspaper went from hand to hand along the terrace.

Now that's style. :yes:

SwordsMaster

05-09-2008, 08:22

Of course, the choicest clothes won't make a difference if someone chews with his mouth open, talks too loud or is being rude. Abusing staff by the way is worse than being rude to other customers because the latter aren't subject to supervision and don't depend on it for their livelihood.

I believe we could all learn something from Argentine. A colleague of mine was there during the depth of the financial crisis. He noticed that people would still go out in the afternoon as stylishly as ever, the women dressed in their only proper dress with a little nothing around their necks and their worn-out pumps restored with a bit of paint or charcoal, the men in their only decent suits, with canoe hats, breast pocket handkerchiefs and all. They would sit on a terrace and order glasses of water because they couldn't afford anything else, and they would still be charming and joke and flirt and discuss politics, films and love as if their lives depended from it, and all while the one available newspaper went from hand to hand along the terrace.

Now that's style. :yes:

Haha, that's the spanish-italian heritage. Pride is everything.