By the gods, won't somebody do something about these chariots?

[Dayve]

Seriously, i want to experience a campaign as the Casse but i can't abide chariots, i really can't. They don't follow orders, you can't get them inside cities, their missles don't do any damage, they're weak as crap, their missles are useless and their only advantage is the scare factor which doesn't do anything as long as the enemy general is alive.

Would somebody switch them with a cavalry unit for me? The Gallic one would be dandy but i really don't care... i'd take a unit of vanilla peasants over chariots.

No offense to whoever worked on them of course, i'm sure they were just as useless in real life which is why they've been made like this. I know it's cheeky to ask but i've tried to do this before and i always end up just ruining the game with a CTD everytime i start a battle.

[kepta]

Heres an older thread that deals with changing the casse general. I could try and do it for you but Ill be busy tonight worked when i did it in 1.0.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-81687.html

[Dayve]

Heres an older thread that deals with changing the casse general. I could try and do it for you but Ill be busy tonight worked when i did it in 1.0.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-81687.html

Ah, dandy. Will this work in the latest one since some units had their stats changed?

[PershsNhpios]

Well, Davyd, you could simply learn to use chariots correctly..

In the open field, the Casse Generals are some of the most powerful bodyguards in the game. Units of 80 chariots can carve up Marian Legions like Weiss Wurstels.

Especially, using chariots to hammer into the back of an engaged formation will rout them almost immediately - even Gaesatae.

The method is simply thus.

If you you have a target which is unengaged, and out in the open - a considerable possibility for the chariots to attack - do not simply double right click.
ALT+double-right-click, then as soon as the chariots have charged into the midst of the infantry formation, continuously double click about 50m on the other side of the infantry.

Instead of halting and trying to fight from the chariots, the charioteers will drag through the formation like fingers, and carve the foot units up.

If you are attacking an engaged unit from behind, you don't need to do this, because the unit will most likely rout immediately, as long as you order a correct charge with ALT.

Attacking cavalry.. You are sure to win.
Simply set a loose formation, and use ALT, you shouldn't even have to drag.

It's the same with elephants.. That's why they have the, "Special Attack", trait.

[Dooz]

What is it about Alt+right clicking with chariots specifically that's different from regular right clicking? I know with certain units it charges with the secondary weapon, is that basically what it is? If so, whats the secondary weapon with Alt and what is it without?

[lobf]

Alt = secondary weapon. Some people here have said that units charge with their secondaries, but I haven't confirmed this. Seems to me cav wouldn't use their spears were this the case.

[abou]

Alt = secondary weapon. Some people here have said that units charge with their secondaries, but I haven't confirmed this. Seems to me cav wouldn't use their spears were this the case.
Infantry does. Case in point would be the Hypaspistai and Baktrion Agema.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

I made a good start on a Casse campaign last week. I have soon adjusted to the use of Chariots, their a tad clumsy but they can work well enough, just don't get them stuck in melee against inf, or let them got shot at, same as Nellies basically.

[PershsNhpios]

I could never use my cavalry correctly until I learn to use ALT with the Right-click, at least in my control set-up, this is the order to charge.

Without it, the cavalry will neglect to use their lances.

Using chariots, a certain animation plays, and there is a build up of speed in the charge, which of course boosts the initial attack.
All units have a charging animation - using ALT ensures you will see it.

[duncan.gill]

I loved the Casse generals - I would suggest that they are probably the best in the whole game. What other general can:

1. stay behind your line to inspire your troops
2. stay behind your line to terrify the enemies (making them break sooner)
3. is fast enough moving to trample any fleeing troops

[Digby Tatham Warter]

I could never use my cavalry correctly until I learn to use ALT with the Right-click, at least in my control set-up, this is the order to charge.

Without it, the cavalry will neglect to use their lances.
I only get that problem, if the cav are not in an even formation, or are to close for a charge to be initiated to work, I've never needed the Alt+R.clic, infact I didn't know that this is another way to order the charge, I thought Alt+R.clic is alternative weapon, not lance.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

I loved the Casse generals - I would suggest that they are probably the best in the whole game. What other general can:

1. stay behind your line to inspire your troops
2. stay behind your line to terrify the enemies (making them break sooner)
3. is fast enough moving to trample any fleeing troops
Cav generals can't do point 2, but their alot better at point 3, and when it comes to defending from a siege, you can barely get the chariots in and out for quick attacks, and those quick charges in the streets are a no-no.

[Olaf The Great]

This ain't about how dandy chariots are its that dayve can't stand them and wants a recplacement :).

[PershsNhpios]

Yes, Large Olaf, however if one can show him the dandiness of Chariots, he won't require or wish for a replacement, but use them more efficiently than he could use cavalry instead.

[Cambyses]

In a town however, they remain incredibly annoying to use, no matter how adept you are at using keyboard and mouse at the same time...

Is there a dismount before battle option available somwhere ? or will that just steal a valuable unit slot. Obviously the Casse general would need to be a relatively weak infantry unit to stop players taking this option all the time.

[PershsNhpios]

No, that option died with Medieval Total War.

However, that is all a matter of balance.

The chariots being an absolutely devastating device against cavalry and infantry - they must of course suffer in the cities or confined spaces - or else they would be unstoppable.

[konny]

Ah, dandy. Will this work in the latest one since some units had their stats changed?

Do it manuelly by replacing everything under the line
type celtic chariot cidainh bodyguards
with everything that is under the "type"-line of you desired unit (I would suggest Rycalawre). Make sure the new unit is a one that Casse can recruite on a regular basis. And do not move the entry of the "chariot bodyguards" anywhere within the EDU.

[Cambyses]

Well this is very true.

But if you were a Casse General and your town was being attacked, would you stay in your chariot? :clown:

[The General]

I could never use my cavalry correctly until I learn to use ALT with the Right-click, at least in my control set-up, this is the order to charge.

Without it, the cavalry will neglect to use their lances.
Umm, no.

Right-click attack = charge and fight lances/spears
ALT + 'attack' = charge with lances/spears, once charge is over, change to swords/maces/etc
ALT + 'attack' too close to enemy = charge and fight with alternative/secondary weapon, ie. swords/maces/whatevers

You can just charge with right click too, and then manually make them change to secondary weapons by alt-right-clicking the enemies after the charge's over.

[Ludens]

Try playing the battle of Telamon scenario to see how much havoc you can create by having your chariots tear through enemy cavalry and heavy infantry. Just don't let them get stuck in melee and keep them away from light infantry.

In the scenario you are surrounded by two Roman armies, so you have to take out one army quickly before the other overpowers your rearguard. Normally, this would be very difficult since the A.I. keeps its troops tightly together, but by engaging the enemy infantry with your troops and then running through them with the chariots you can cause a big morale penalty, allowing you to rout them with relative ease. Enemy cavalry is even more vulnerable to chariots: charge through them and follow up with your own cavalry, and you'll have them fleeing pretty quickly.

The battle will be difficult though, because you will have to fight on two fronts, and the Roman units will continually reform and return to the fray, but chariots supported by other troops allow you to quickly rout the enemy cavalry and infantry.

[craziii]

I was fighting a rebel stack with an elephant unit in it. I killed everything except 1 elephant running amok, it killed like 400 of my elite tier 5 soldiers :( when it is running amok, for some reason, it's always trampling when it moves instead of just moving. does the chariots have the same properties? same lethality level? if so, they are alot more cost affective than elephants.

[Dhampir]

I both love and hate Casse generals.

They are spectacular. But if you forget about them for even a second, they die.

[Ludens]

You can indeed use chariots like elephants. They are less deadly (less missile kills and far less "trampling" kills) but on the positive side the Celtic ones are not prone to running amok and won't harm your own troops (apart from tossing them aside and occasionally hitting them with javelins). Celtic chariots also provide morale bonuses to allied troops.

[Elmetiacos]

Looking at the design of a British chariot such as this reconstruction http://www.mikeloades.co.uk/cms/images/British_Chariot.pdf it clearly isn't designed for crashing into enemy flanks. While I don't think any of us would enjoy being knocked down by a couple of ponies, note that the chariot has no front and so if it comes to a sudden halt, the warriors inside risk being thrown out headfirst and landing on the yoke (with hilarious consequences - from the enemy's point of view). I've had to uninstall RTW for the moment so I don't have the stats for EB's chariot units, but they ought to be used as a sort of combination missile cavalry/heavy infantry, as Caesar says they were.

[Jaywalker-Jack]

When are people going to realize that tricky things, like using chariots (or fighting the Gaesatae, or starting out heavily in debt, or preventing an enemy faction getting too strong) are exactly what makes the game fun. Using the brain to overcome challenges, thats what its all about. Forgive me if Im stating the obvious here, but it dosnt seem obvious to everyone!

[Tellos Athenaios]

Casse generals are something you need to acquire a taste for. In any case their javelins are actually pretty useful but more of an added bonus. However it is one which greatly enhances the other boni:

1) Morale effects on both enemy (negative) as well as your own (positive) forces.
2) They are probably more devastating in pursuit than any other unit I have used: the image of one giant broom comes to mind...
3) Continuous missile fire appears to be more demoralising to enemy units than ordinary missile fire -- which is the main use of the Cantabrian circle. However the way the Casse bodyguards throw their javelins makes for pretty much a stationary equivalent to this Cantabrian circle. Without the exhaustion on your side, that is.

EDIT: So if you combine 1 + 3 it's not hard to see why you can incur serious loss of moral among the enemy soldier by simply moving your Casse general a lil' closer to them than they like. ~:)

[Ludens]

I've had to uninstall RTW for the moment so I don't have the stats for EB's chariot units, but they ought to be used as a sort of combination missile cavalry/heavy infantry, as Caesar says they were.
You are quite right, and the current situation is ahistorical, but unfortunatly there is little that can be done about it. The R:TW engine has not been created with chariots in mind: it treats them like any other unit, and does not realize how fragile they are. There is no dismounting option to simulate their use as battle taxis*, and making them more fragile will result in Casse generals useless for the player and a liability for the A.I. (they used to be like that back in the 0.8 build, so they received a stat boost). Ploughing through enemy battles lines is unrealistic, but the only way you can effectively use them.

* Psycho V mentioned the possibility of changing chariots into siege engines so the warrior could leave the chariot, but I haven't heard of it since and I am very skeptical whether it would work.



2) They are probably more devastating in pursuit than any other unit I have used: the image of one giant broom comes to mind...
How do you use them? I have found them useless when pursuiting. They might occasionaly throw a lucky javelin, but some light cavalry is far more effective at mopping up routers.

[Jaume]

When are people going to realize that tricky things, like using chariots (...) are exactly what makes the game fun.

Yes. But I get even more fun when I send indian infantry. You know:

http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/4/5/7/f_501m_e3e8794.jpg

Aren't they so cool?

[Tellos Athenaios]

How do you use them? I have found them useless when pursuiting. They might occasionaly throw a lucky javelin, but some light cavalry is far more effective at mopping up routers.

As I said the image of a broom comes to mind: you do not try to pick on each bit of dust one by one (in English: don't let them explicitly attack); rather you 'aim' one big swoop (in English: just let them race through the routing mass) at times from one angle, and at times from another one.

Getting trampled under chariots aint much fun; getting trampled under chariots whilst being pelted by javelins much less so but worst of all would be to dodge them once only to find yourself running right into an angry mob of enemy soldiers -- and at the same time being pursued by those chariots turning around and getting awfully close awfully fast.

[Ludens]

I see. However, they really don't kill that much by themselves. You need to sweep the routers into other units to get them.

Off course, I use my cavalry and chariots very actively, so they are generally tired and out of ammo by the time they start pursuing routers. I also have a house rule that prohibits pursuing with exhausted units.