ethnic cleansing and other opinions about Flanders

[Peasant Phill]

I just heard, in the evening news, about an article in the Herald Tribune commenting on the situation in Flanders. Apparently the author used the term ethnic cleansing and backed it up by a anectdote of a Flemish daycare center refusing Walloons.

Flemish people are supposedly viewed as non-violent fascists by foreigners.



People on this forum (hopefully) know me as a moderate Flem. Someone who puts things in perspective before commenting on something. However this factoid was not well received and has me got worked up (at least for the rest of the evening).

So,

Do you really see us Flemish people as passive Hitlers threathening the walloon minority in Belgium? (Don't be put off by the dramatic wording, writing works therapeutic:2thumbsup: )




P.S. I don't seem to be able to find the above mentioned article. If anybody would be so kind to post a link so I (and the rest the interested orgahs) can read it in more detail. I'll refrain myself from attacking the article until I've read it.

[KukriKhan]

This article (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/13/europe/belgium.php) might be the one to which you refer. I found in it the phrase: "nonviolent fascism":


This combination of national pride, rightist politics, language purity and racially tinged opposition to big-city mores and immigration is a classic formula these days in modern Europe, a kind of nonviolent fascism.

but I must have missed "ethnic cleansing".

-edit-
The article was written by Steven Erlanger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Erlanger), an American journo currently posted in Paris (previously in Jerusalem).

-edit2-

Do you really see us Flemish people as passive Hitlers threathening the walloon minority in Belgium?

No.

[Kralizec]

Do you really see us Flemish people as passive Hitlers threathening the walloon minority in Belgium?

More often then not I sympathize with the Flemish when these issues pop up.

But since I'm a fascist Dutch, that shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Vladimir]

Forget all this. Where is the beer made?!

[Adrian II]

More often then not I sympathize with the Flemish when these issues pop up.

But since I'm a fascist Dutch, that shouldn't surprise anyone.I usually side with the Walloons mainly because I detest Flemish chauvinism. But it is not a foolball match and I switch sides according to subject.

The journo has an interesting point, in that he points out the essentially suburban mentality of Flanders, which is also a recurrent theme in its modern literature. Flanders was an industrial late-comer (heavy industry took off there only in 1960's) and the Christian Democrats followed a careful policy of locating industry in the countryside and tying workers to the villages and rural culture, including Roman Catholic tradition, to prevent the rise of a dominant trade union movement and socialist party. Hence most of Flanders is tinged with a provincialism that is both charming and worth preserving as well as occasionally xenophobic and intellectually suffocating.

With regard to the latter: the so-called 'Flemish culture policy' of successive Flemish ministers has been an exercise in petty chauvinism and essentially harmless but still abhorrent idiocy unrivalled in Western Europe. To Dutch-language members I can recommend Zwarte Gedachten, a collection of highly critical essays by philosopher Dieter Lesage who was involved in this policy for a time and highlights the sloppy thinking and murky emotionalism behind this policy.

But fascism and ethnic cleansing?? Nah, the author is far out of line there. Given the complex problems with which it is confronted I would say that the degree of tolerance in Brussels, the ethnic 'hotbed' of the nation, is exemplary. And Belgium is a superb country in so many ways that even those dumb Belgians wouldn't want to break it up... :laugh4:

[PanzerJaeger]

Whats so terrible about nonviolent fascism? :inquisitive:

[Adrian II]

Whats so terrible about nonviolent fascism? :inquisitive:Nothing, as long as you practice it inside your home like I do every day. But not outside: I find that it tends to litter the neighbourhood rather than clean it up.

[Vladimir]

Whats so terrible about nonviolent fascism? :inquisitive:

It's pretty ugly. [/sic]

[Brenus]

"Whats so terrible about nonviolent fascism?" Contradiction in terms.:laugh4:

[HoreTore]

Someone invade that country soon. Since Bush looks ocupied, I'm praying for Putin...

[Kralizec]

I usually side with the Walloons mainly because I detest Flemish chauvinism. But it is not a foolball match and I switch sides according to subject.

Stuff like refusing Walloon babies from daycare facilities is pretty absurd, but they're symptons of an underlying, legitimate frustrations.

I'm annoyed by much the Wallonic (?) rethoric because an uninformed person would get the idea that they're a linguistic minority that's being opressed by the Dutch-speaking majority. The opposite is true, the Flemish have always more or less been forced to accommodate the Walloons and the latter have grown so accostomed to it that they think anything less than the status quo is a crime against them.

[Peasant Phill]

Thanks Kukrikhan, for the article.

Now my comments on the article. I can’t really dispute anything in the article itself. Yes, those things happen/have happened and those opinions are more and more common. However, this article isn’t what I would call good journalism.

The average Flem feels that the foreign media are more susceptive to the Walloon discourse.
This article itself is an excellent example of why Flemish feel this way. The author was looking for extremes rather than an objective image of a problem in Belgium:
- The interviewed politician was a member of the (only but quite powerful) extreme right party in Flanders. The man is not even part of the majority. I believe that a more objective article would have chosen someone who did partake in the actual governing of Liedekerke like the mayor (who would have used a more moderate and nuanced tone and argumentation).
- Liedekerke is an extreme example of what is happening in Flanders. There is sentiment for there decisions but those decisions aren’t shared by the rest of Flanders. Like the article said:

Liedekerke's effort to restrict school outings by language embarrassed both the federal and Flanders government, both of which sit in Brussels. Marino Keulen, the Flemish interior minister, annulled the decision.

If anybody is interested I can give some background on Flemish cultural pride but I reckon putting it here would only clutter this thread.

[Moros]

If people see us that way it would only be put of ignorance. Of course we do have 'het Vlaams belanga', but every country has it's fools. (we have filip, the netherland have Geert, the US has well...) But I never looked upon every Dutch or every American as if they would be just like them.

Hopefully too many foreigners don't see us all as filip de winter. (I mean with that hairdo!? :o )

Edit: the beer is brewn in both places.

[Andres]

If Belgium vanishes one day, it will be because of little towns like this one,

Yeah, we're all racists and fascists and ethnic cleansing will start in Liedekerke, of all places... :wall:

What nonsense.

[Fragony]

I thought the Herald Tribune was supposed to be a quality newspaper :thumbsdown:

[Papewaio]

NEWS is about extremities not averages

[KarlXII]

Err......my Holland book must be updated.

What is a Walloon? Why does someone use the term ethnic cleansing for not allowing them into day care centers?

I mean, what? The Flemish aren't a group of genocidal looneys.

[lars573]

Wallon=French speaking Belgian
Fleming=Dutch speaking Belgian

In the broadest strokes possible.

[Peasant Phill]

NEWS is about extremities not averages

Not true.

News is/should be about an objective portrayal of certain events that are most likely out of the ordinary. This piece can hardly be called objective for the reasons I mentioned above. Liedekerke is not not Flanders as a whole, proclaiming this is not good journalism.

It's like saying that New Zealand only has black sheep because in one place in NZ there happens to be a lot more black sheep then white sheep. And proving this argument by showing pictures only of those black sheep and telling anecdotes of only black sheep.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I, for one, have long since warned for the Flemish fascist danger and am happy that the outside world is waking up to the threat at last. We must stop this evil nation before it's too late. I suggest an international boycott until the Flemish apartheid regime in Greater Brussels (=BHV) is halted.


For my francophone friends: Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l09j6aF_UBk) of a Flemish minister. :beam: