The Greek Cities

[Bartholemew-Varath]

Well im not really into the Greeks, but i do have a question for those who are. How the hell are the Greeks supposed to conquer anything? Phalanxes can only be used in defence (i found out the hard way) and peasants are no good. Im not sure i would storm a wall with loads of peasants...

So how to he Greeks actually be aggresive? I can only seem to use them in defence.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I've always found that The Greeks fight on the offence best in regimented formations - typically a straight line which marches towards the enemy until it comes into contact. A couple of reserve units can often deal with cavalry when combined with cavalry of your own.

~:)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

You can always check the guide for them ..
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=36871
a lot of good ideas and suggestions ..

also .. I remember someone posting a link to a webpage where someone conquered the 50 provinces wih the greek cities with only 38 turns ..
here is the link for that ...
http://www.geocities.com/AMD_4EVER/Rome/main.html

Hope this helps! ~:)

[salemty]

i have a quick question. how do you defeat the phalanx pikemen whith hoplites?! the longer pikes of phlanaxes means that the hoplites cant even get close enough to the pikemen.and by the time they get cose enough they've already lost like a quarter of their men. someone plz help me

[Caius]

Well, you could make a distraction with other troop, charging that troop to the phalanx, and then surprise with the Hoplites.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

i have a quick question. how do you defeat the phalanx pikemen whith hoplites?! the longer pikes of phlanaxes means that the hoplites cant even get close enough to the pikemen.and by the time they get cose enough they've already lost like a quarter of their men. someone plz help meYou have to beat them through flanking. Use the hoplites to keep them occupied at the front, and send cavalry to the rear to deal with their backs to prevent them from turning around. This has the capacity to decimate them or even result in a chain route.

Another tactic you could use involves the usage of missile units, which pikemen are extreemly vulnerable to due to their low defense statistics. Fire arrows at them prior to the inital skirmish and, if possible, send them behind the pikemen to fire at them from there. This, as well as causing more damage due to the attack being in the flank, also reduces levels of/the effects of freindly fire upon your own troops when in contact with them.

~:)

[Quintus.JC]

My Greek campaign sucked, not that I wasn't able to conquer anything, but the frustration of using solely the Phalanx really hit me really hard. My army was made of round about 15 Armoured hoplites and generals bodyguard. All the other cavalry units are rubbish and despite the fact that I still win all my battles it's just so boring. No tactics involved, every battle just deploy the same formation. Line them up in a straight line and wait for the dumb AI to charge you, or the other way round. At the end of the battle there's no way for me to finish off the survivers because of a lack of cavalry and the hoplites can barely run. I never got really far with the Greeks because of this. Macedon and Seleucid are much more enjoyable to play than the Greeks.

[Caesar the IIIV]

well, if you dont like fightin with the greek just auto-resolve the battle:yes: :2thumbsup:

[Quintus.JC]

well, if you dont like fightin with the greek just auto-resolve the battle:yes: :2thumbsup:

Doesn't work for me, I prefer to fight it personally. Apart from against annoying rebels.

[Caesar the IIIV]

hmmmmmmm, well you can also fight with caverly:ave:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The greek cavalry is not that good .. you can chase routers or use them against enemy missile troops but against heavier troops they suck :wall:
The only worthy thing that the greeks have are their armoured hoplites...
and just like Quintus.J.Cicero said .. fighting with them gets boring very fast ..
The Greek Cities are interesting only in the beginning ...

[Quintus.JC]

.. fighting with them gets boring very fast ..
The Greek Cities are interesting only in the beginning ...

The Greek cavalry roster sucks to the Max. Apart from their generals' bodyguards everyone else are just crap, even though other exprienced players can make use of them I just thinks they're worthless, supremely weak in melee without other attributes. They are only good for chasing routers and sometimes even get overpowered by enemy missile troops. Aaarrrrggg!!!:furious3:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The only other cavalry unit that is worthy having in the army is the sarmatian mercenary cavalry unit. They are the only heavy cavalry unit available beside the generals bodyguards. Off course IF you manage to get them then you would have hard time to retrain them :wall:

[Darkvicer98]

All i say is if you know how to use the phalanx be The Greek Cities. The greek cavalry is somewhat good i find like their militia cavarly and their missile units like the Heavy Peltasts show they not all worthless.

[Magraev]

Greece has the strongest unit in the game - spartan hoplites. Use them without phalanx and they can still beat almost any infantry troop one-on-one (not sure about those über urbans? or was that urban übers?).

Armored hoplites are very strong too - especially against non-phalanx infantry and cav. Use the militia cavalrys speed to chase routers and tease the opponent.

Use the mercenaries to make your armies better. Cretan archers can rain death on any opponent and thracian mercenaries are very nice flankers (samnites in italy). Bastarnae and sarmatian cav/horse archers are just icing on the cake.

it's true that fighting phalanx pikemen are a b****. So take macedon out asap - and you'll mostly be facing militia hoplites. Else you have to be smart and attack from the rear or side.

[wumpus]

i have a quick question. how do you defeat the phalanx pikemen whith hoplites?! the longer pikes of phlanaxes means that the hoplites cant even get close enough to the pikemen.and by the time they get cose enough they've already lost like a quarter of their men. someone plz help me
Ave, salemty!
Allow me a couple of (partial) solutions: 1. try to outflank the phallanges. I assume that you're playing with XGM or something similar. Hoplites are a little more mobile, a little faster, etc., than phallanges. 2. If you have them behind your hoplites, use archers to pepper the enemy formation BEFORE until during contact. These 2 answers are partial, and you should use them with another tactic to help you gain the upper hand. Of course, needless to say, the morale and experience of your troops should be even more help. And what I have here are merely 2 of the still many other ways to get you your upper hand. But still, expect some casualties among your troops--hoplites vs. phallanges is a messy, bloody affair! I'd prefer to fire at the enemy from a distance with slingers, archers (with fire arrows) and militia cavalry riding in Cant. circles.
Hawooh.

[Quintus.JC]

i have a quick question. how do you defeat the phalanx pikemen whith hoplites?! the longer pikes of phlanaxes means that the hoplites cant even get close enough to the pikemen.and by the time they get cose enough they've already lost like a quarter of their men. someone plz help me

How about disable your hoplites from Phalanx formation and quickly flank the Phalanx pikemen. I've never tried this but every time when I play Macedon with a one-on-one fight between the Hoplite and Phalanx pikemen it seems to be an even match. The long pike attribute doesn't seems to make a great differece at all.

[Quirinus]

well, if you dont like fightin with the greek just auto-resolve the battle:yes: :2thumbsup:
D: No! The Greek Cities is right up there with Parthia and maybe Scythia in terms of performing very badly in auto-resolve. Even lining your army up, marching them up to the enemy line and doing nothing else yields vastly different results from auto-resolve. This is more apparent earlier on because of militia hoplites, and the Greek hoplites to an extent. The armoured hoplites fare much better, but there's still a noticable gap in casualties between auto-resolve and playing the battles yourself.



My personal favourite faction is still the Greek Cities though. I just love their hoplites, their temple set and the militia cavalry (great for chasing routers!). I'm also more of an infantry guy than cavalry, so I guess I'm biased.

To me, mercenaries are absolutely essential playing as the Greek Cities-- Illyrian and Thracian mercs, as well as plain ol' barbarian mercenaries, are excellent as flank protecters and flankers.

[Quintus.JC]

Auto-resolving with the Greeks often have disastrous results, it seems that the AI doesn't count your phalanx ability at all, similar with horse archers that they often get slaughtered in Auto-resolve. Other certain units, such as chariots fare much better in auto-resolve.

[Darkvicer98]

My personal favourite faction is still the Greek Cities though. I just love their hoplites, their temple set and the militia cavalry (great for chasing routers!). I'm also more of an infantry guy than cavalry, so I guess I'm biased.

To me, mercenaries are absolutely essential playing as the Greek Cities-- Illyrian and Thracian mercs, as well as plain ol' barbarian mercenaries, are excellent as flank protecters and flankers.
Nice to know we think alike. The Greek Cities is also my favourite faction because of their phalanx formation and sea trade in the Aegean. The phalanx unit destroys all except missile cavalry and infantry. Just that if you know how to use the phalanx in settlement and in the open you can win nearly every battle.

[Bartholemew-Varath]

Nice to know we think alike. The Greek Cities is also my favourite faction because of their phalanx formation and sea trade in the Aegean. The phalanx unit destroys all except missile cavalry and infantry. Just that if you know how to use the phalanx in settlement and in the open you can win nearly every battle.

So how is it exactly that you use a phalanx then? I can use them in defence easily, but when it comes to attacking, im hopeless. Thats why i like Thrace, they have phalanx's, but you can also rely falxmen to slaughter all in your way if your on the offensive.

[Magraev]

To use a phalanx offensively you have to march it in a line straight through the enemy line. Stop once you make contact and watch while your enemy tries to reach your troops. This is when you send your best flankers around the side to rout the enemy. I often use thracian mercs for this. If nothing else spartans are also great for it.

[Darkvicer98]

So how is it exactly that you use a phalanx then? I can use them in defence easily, but when it comes to attacking, im hopeless. Thats why i like Thrace, they have phalanx's, but you can also rely falxmen to slaughter all in your way if your on the offensive.
The phalanx can be used for defensive purposes like defending a settlement or fort but it can be used offensively to siege a settlement. The narrow streets in a settlement allow no-one to reach the phalanx and to slaughter the enemy at the same time.

However in open ground if against a big army i use a shape to defend from all sides. Like a square,pentagon or hexagon can be used by putting the phalanx's into the shape.

[The New Che Guevara]

So how is it exactly that you use a phalanx then? I can use them in defence easily, but when it comes to attacking, im hopeless. Thats why i like Thrace, they have phalanx's, but you can also rely falxmen to slaughter all in your way if your on the offensive.

Quite easily, but you need like at least three units to counter a strong troop.

Step 1. Line the three phalanx up facing the enemy
Step 2. When the enemy charges the middle one (this is taking a set of three)move that unit backwards.
Step 3. Fold the two units of phalanx into the flanks of the enemy unit.
Step 4. If you have any greek cavalry, charge them into the rear of the unit. They will either rout or fight to the death either way they're broken.

If you're not against just one unit (like that happens in RTW). Say an army of romans.

Step 1. Line your phalanx units up
Step 2. When the enemy attack, pause the game and give each unit a different target (easiest is the one opposite) and then if you have spares, redo the selection and give more phalanx the same target, more troops attacking results in a better chance of routing the unit earlier.
Step 3. When they start routing but parts of your army are suffering, send the ones who have routed their enemy to the help.
Step 4. Regroup your army and then march after them.

Phalanx and hoplites are awesome if chariots and horses charge straight into them.

[Quintus.JC]

That's what makes the Greeks boring though. Line your Phalanx in a straight line and wait for the charge. No tactics involved, do this every time and you win every time. Providing your troops don't get out-numbered/classed too much.

[Bartholemew-Varath]

But what if you are on the offensive, and are walking up a hill? Often i find that the enemy stands still and waits for me to attack, even if they attack me on the campaign map. Also, im not so good at orogami, how do i fold a unit?

[Caliburn]

The phalanx is quite formidable, even without armour they're a strong and solid unit. Armoured Phalanx somehow felt even a bit like cheating sometimes, but not really against Roman... Oh well. They don't like missiles, though, and are slow. I always support them with archers, the Creechans are the best of course, and peltasts for flanking and to lower enemy morale. The militia cavalry are kinda weak, but they have their uses. (like those brave Arcadians...)

Against pikemen I've sometimes used a funnel or u-formation, where my regiment is lined up like normal, but with a 2 or 3 unit gap in the middle, filled with either cavalry or peltasts. Behind the phalanxes next to the gap are two more phalanxes, ready to fill the gap if nessessary. The key to using the funnel is to lure enemy centre into the gap, flank with the reserve phalanxes and pelt them with peltasts.

One risky ploy I've used is to deploy my archer in a separate wing at one flank, covered with militia cavalry. I approach the enemy with the phalanx units, close to archer range, and quickly march my archers to a 90 degree position, optionally a hill, at the enemy flank. If I can, I use some cheap unit (militia cavalry maybe, or peltasts) screening the phalanx from enemy missiles and keeping the enemy's focus in a wrong place while the archers deploy. If the enemy has a lot of cavalry, then I'm in trouble. If I manage to deploy the archers in a good position, I can take out a few of their archers before starting withering fire on the heavy hitters. Maybe a few more arrows manage to land on something else than shields now that the boys are on the flank, hm! Then it's normal phalanx tactics - move in, poke, poke, poke like Nina Williams, and if the enemy responded to the archers, they'll have turned their tails on the phalanx and are maybe even getting rounded up in an ugly clump, having had to make a 45 degree turn, and as we know, the computer isn't exactly the most effective user of formations. And lo and behold, the humble militia cavalry has a chance to do something useful, except to die to save your expensive Creechans... They'll add to the enemy's morale penalty by circling them, and finally they'll round up the routing enemy army quite effectively, and are in a pretty good position to do it too.

Sometimes it's tricky though, as the phalanxes are slow and everything else in Rome moves at the speed of light. Against pikemen and the like it's pretty easy to pull off though.

Peltasts add up to something too, and are much faster than phalanxes. They'll do a good enough job at supporting the phalanx, even dropping a few cavalry guys with those nifty (even though they're maybe a bit weak to my tastes) javelins.

What to do against those enemy archers, though? I tend to use some "speed bumps" to draw enemy fire before my phalanx engages, or out-maneuvre enemy archers with my own, like in the example above.

Phalanxes are ...nifty! not too good on walls, though, but blast enough holes with catapults or something.

It's been a while since I've played Rome, so maybe what I'm saying is bullshit, but never mind...

[Cleon_of_Sparta]

******** they are an attacking force [personal attack removed] i have defeted the entire S.Q.U.R army with 8 units of spartan phalanxes [personal attack removed] i did i can beat any army with the one i have now.

[Csargo]

A little over the top. Don't you think? It's not appropriate to insult people.

[Quintus.JC]

******** they are an attacking force [personal attack removed] i have defeted the entire S.Q.U.R army with 8 units of spartan phalanxes [personal attack removed] i did i can beat any army with the one i have now.Look...Spartan, no one here said that the Greeks are a weak force. My point is that their lack of cavalry plus their superb infantry makes them a little bit ... one dimensioned. I was able to conquer all of the Italian penisular with armored Hoplites. There's no need to insult other people for it.

BTW, welcome to the org.

[Cleon_of_Sparta]

sorry guys i just can't stand it, you know i allways hear people talking about the greeks and everyone says they suck but they don't they are the strongest force in the entire game i beat every empire with and took everycity in the world with them and only useing the greeks, sorry guys if i came off a little hard sorry yalll, :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: sorry yall guys

[Quirinus]

That's what makes the Greeks boring though. Line your Phalanx in a straight line and wait for the charge. No tactics involved, do this every time and you win every time. Providing your troops don't get out-numbered/classed too much.
Isn't this pretty true for, say, the Romans, too, with a little alteration? :grin:

[Darkvicer98]

Because everyones talking about The Greek Cities,i've started a campaign with them and i'm enjoying it. I've already conquered all of Greece(the Macedons were easy to defeat). I'm enjoying this campaign because the Greeks are Awesome.

[Quintus.JC]

.... Armoured Phalanx somehow felt even a bit like cheating sometimes, but not really against Roman.....

I second that, the Greeks are the only civilized faction able to recruit troops that powerful in minor cities. Armored Hoplites is more fitting to be recruitable in large cities, their stats is far too good compared with the troops other faction brings in city levels.



Isn't this pretty true for, say, the Romans, too, with a little alteration? :grin:

To somewhat extend yes, after the Marian reforms it does feel that way. At least they got good cavalry and must more flexible

[Bartholemew-Varath]

sorry guys i just can't stand it, you know i allways hear people talking about the greeks and everyone says they suck but they don't they are the strongest force in the entire game i beat every empire with and took everycity in the world with them and only useing the greeks, sorry guys if i came off a little hard sorry yalll, :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: :shame: sorry yall guys

It really depends on your playing style, i use limit my spearmen in an army and charge the enemy with a tonne of heavy swordsmen, then just beat them due to pure force, (or sometimes, or maybe every time i flank them, but thats not important:inquisitive: )

[Quintus.JC]

It really depends on your playing style, i use limit my spearmen in an army and charge the enemy with a tonne of heavy swordsmen, then just beat them due to pure force, (or sometimes, or maybe every time i flank them, but thats not important:inquisitive: )

Then your ideal faction is Gaul. They have tonnes of heavy swordsmen with limited spearmen selections. Average cavalry with excellent missile troops.

[Cleon_of_Sparta]

but wat i hate is that i had 5 full armys one complet gold in everything, and the ohter 3 were silver i auto resloved and i LOST!!:furious3: :wall: so i fought it again and i won i didn't even lost over 500 men and only had to use one army, why is that, it was a roman scippii, but when i auto resloved with the romans i never lose i tried somehing i built a whole army of swordsmen in roman, i sent them to greece and just auto resloved all the battles to see how far they would go they defented all the fractions in GREECE!!:soapbox: why are the romans so powaful thats not fare i have to fight the battles are i will lose so that gets old real fast, and for some reason i don't know who

[KarlXII]

but wat i hate is that i had 5 full armys one complet gold in everything, and the ohter 3 were silver i auto resloved and i LOST!!:furious3: :wall: so i fought it again and i won i didn't even lost over 500 men and only had to use one army, why is that, it was a roman scippii, but when i auto resloved with the romans i never lose i tried somehing i built a whole army of swordsmen in roman, i sent them to greece and just auto resloved all the battles to see how far they would go they defented all the fractions in GREECE!!:soapbox: why are the romans so powaful thats not fare i have to fight the battles are i will lose so that gets old real fast, and for some reason i don't know who

EPIC FAIL

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

R:TW is terribly biased towards the Romans in almost all circumstances. Their late military is the most powerful and mixed (as in strong units of every type) on the map. The Greek factions dramatically contrasts with this, having strong units, but only when in phalanx formation. Autoresolve does not consider the ability to form and use the phalanx formation in its plans, leaving the phalanx faction at a disadvantage.

~:)

[Cleon_of_Sparta]

:smg: :hmg: Yeah but i think the romans sould be the weakess, do you know how to defent the entire sente with 8 spartan pikeman, they don't even have to have a single expire, its really funny that they would trow their lives away in a forward attack, ok put your units on a boat and do you see that river besides their base put them on the middle of the lake so when your attack put all your units in the same spot before you start when you do have them out of pikeformantion so they can run run them to the middle of the lake and tell all them to stop and put them in pike formation like they stop don't move them they sould be spreaded out but the game does something so that the gaps besides them killl them too do it a wat but pracite it on a brige anywere with about 4 or 5 units it would be while before they got beaten i did it when i my army got crushed and my remaining me were being chaged by the pontus so i put thme on a birge and i got a herocit victory then i sent a ship to get them home, they don't even have to be spartan just pikeman.:smg: :hmg:

[Cleon_of_Sparta]

Wat happened to this post it just died after my post that sucks.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

Well im not really into the Greeks, but i do have a question for those who are. How the hell are the Greeks supposed to conquer anything? Phalanxes can only be used in defence (i found out the hard way) and peasants are no good. Im not sure i would storm a wall with loads of peasants...

So how to he Greeks actually be aggresive? I can only seem to use them in defence.

I use their secondary weapon by holding down alt and attacking. They get their swords out then. ~:wave:

[Quirinus]

It seems like a waste to use hoplites like that though, since they have the invulnerable wall of pikes in front. I only intentionally use the secondary weapon if I really need the extra kick of a charge (to the rear, for example) to win.

[guineawolf]

Well im not really into the Greeks, but i do have a question for those who are. How the hell are the Greeks supposed to conquer anything? Phalanxes can only be used in defence (i found out the hard way) and peasants are no good. Im not sure i would storm a wall with loads of peasants...

So how to he Greeks actually be aggresive? I can only seem to use them in defence.

i oredi use those hoplite to fight many bloody battle at siege enemy cities,i used to be using militia hoplites to do that and conquer the whole world(RTW world)........

yes,i would admit that they kill their enemy infantry so slow in sword fighting even for armoured hoplites(except spartan)

At a siege,i would suggest you to using armoured hoplites as the first wave to disrupt enemy archers(their heavy armor can absorb most enemy arrows)at the wall,then spartans as the second wave to do the sword fighting.



My Greek campaign sucked, not that I wasn't able to conquer anything, but the frustration of using solely the Phalanx really hit me really hard. My army was made of round about 15 Armoured hoplites and generals bodyguard. All the other cavalry units are rubbish and despite the fact that I still win all my battles it's just so boring. No tactics involved, every battle just deploy the same formation. Line them up in a straight line and wait for the dumb AI to charge you, or the other way round. At the end of the battle there's no way for me to finish off the survivers because of a lack of cavalry and the hoplites can barely run. I never got really far with the Greeks because of this. Macedon and Seleucid are much more enjoyable to play than the Greeks.

If you are using Greek cities i will you to use militia cavalry(better than greek cavalry,coz greek cavalry have no sword to fight in close combat,the best cavalry for greek cities),if you want to take out enemy heavy cavalry,hold enym heavy cavalry with you hoplites(phalanxe off,with sword)than hit enemy heavy cavalry back or side with militia cavalry.
Or you can just breed your family members out,using their general bodyguards as heavy cavalry(with they can both charge enemy formations and fighting close combat effectively!)



The greek cavalry is not that good .. you can chase routers or use them against enemy missile troops but against heavier troops they suck :wall:
The only worthy thing that the greeks have are their armoured hoplites...
and just like Quintus.J.Cicero said .. fighting with them gets boring very fast ..
The Greek Cities are interesting only in the beginning ...

Using militia cavalry to against enemy missile infantry or heavy armor troops,you must use 2 mili cav to against 1 enemy heavy troops,then it can be overwhelm.

i can explain why mili cav is better than greek cavalry.
you must decide which kind of cavalry you need when you chose your cavalry,there is 2 kind of cavalry that 1 equip with spear and 1 equip with sword(with shield or not is not the important feature you need to consider of,coz it just add protection,chosing cavalry you need to chose it's attack capability)
cavalry with spear can only attack enemy at the front,that means it must turn so it can attack enemy at the side,before it do that,enemy oredi kill it!
cavalry with sword can attack enemy at both sides and enemy at front,that means it can kill faster.Using it to against missile unit prove effectively.

if you got cavalry equip with both spear and sword,then you just need to press alt when you order them to attack if you want them to fight with sword.
In this case,greek cities only got militia cavalry(arm with sword and shield) and greek cavalry(arm with spear only),using greek cavalry when you need to break enemy formations only.(I personally rely on armoured hoplites to break enemy formations,using mili cav to take out enemy missile unit and take out enemy cavalry when situations needed only)
1 militia cavalry against 1 equites,mili cav can take out equites very easily....



There is solutions for taking out enemy pikemen with greek cities,using just a mili hop with phalanxe and guard mode(guard mode on so those militia hoplites won't push forward to get themselve kill) on to hold on the pikemen,then 2 militia cavalry or general bodyguard(if you can accept the risk) charge to their rear,then pikemen will break and rout.