View Full Version : "Tomb of Cleopatra found"
The Egyptian conversators Zahi Hawass thinks he has found the tomb of Cleopatra. The tomb is supposed to be in a grave complex 50 kilometers from Alexandria.
Zawass and his team were busy with researching the Taposiris Magna temple when they found a 130 meter long tunnel. In the tunnel the team found several statues and coins of Cleopatra. "Everything points in the direction that this is the grave of Cleopatra," said Dr. Zahi Hawass. According to the team of Hawass it is only a matter of time before the tomb itself is found.
The legend goes that Cleopatra was buried together with her lover Mark Antony. The Egyptian Queen was married to Julius Caesar first, but married Mark Antony later on, after he arrived in Egypt after a failed expedition. Hawass will now go on to locate the grave of the Roman general as well.
Just a little article I just found on the Dutch site (I tried to translate it as good as possible). Looks like a typical hysteric response on a newfound grave, along with all the typical ideas of Egypt. I wonder how long it will take before everyone realizes she was a Macedonian and I really doubt whether she was married to Gaius Iulius Caesar.
Link to the article (in Dutch) can be found here (http://frontpage.fok.nl/nieuws/93011/-Graftombe-Cleopatra-mogelijk-gevonden.html).
Maion Maroneios
05-27-2008, 16:02
Quite interesting, I must admit, though everyone says the same about Alexander's tomb, don't they? As for the two loverbirds being married, I thought it was stricty forbidden throughout the Greek world to marry more than once? Oh yeah and when do you expect men to ever learn proper history? God, people even start accepting that FYROMIANs are descendants of the ancient Makedones and Albanians descendants of the Illyrians!:laugh: Anyway, that fool Marc Antony was just another pawn...
P.S.: Didn't know you where Dutch btw Hax! You see, I'm half Dutch as well on my mother's side...
eggthief
05-27-2008, 16:08
Lemme guess Hax, u got there trough msn.nl? Read it there myself.
Zawi Hawass is an absolute fooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
I despise him with a passion.
P.S.: Didn't know you where Dutch btw Hax! You see, I'm half Dutch as well on my mother's side...
What, didn't my sarcasm and lack of respect for authority tell you anything?
Lemme guess Hax, u got there trough msn.nl? Read it there myself.
The first day MSN.nl came with new that's actually important. Like we care for the "ten most gay cars".
God, people even start accepting that FYROMIANs are descendants of the ancient Makedones and Albanians descendants of the Illyrians
Not again... There isn't a single Greek I know that doesn't care about a simple name.
Anyways, the finding of the tomb is awesome news indeed! I was invited to go work in Milan two years from now, but what I wanted was to go to Egypt. *sniff*
Not that I know anything about 1st Century BC Egypt (probably more than most film makers, but this is not difficult), but even a non royal tomb from the transition between 'free' Ptolemaic Egypt and Roman Egypt may be a wealth of information.
If the hype about it possibly being Cleopatra's gets the excavation good funding- good.
But Anthony probably doesn't have a grave. Wasn't cremation the practice at the time for Romans? (alright, maybe there's a little urn somewhere...)
Lysimachos
05-27-2008, 20:30
I wonder how long it will take before everyone realizes she was a Macedonian
I would not be to pedantic about that. Yes, she was from makedonian ancestry but that has been some generations ago and afaik the ptolemies didn't need long to adapt some native cultural aspects to support the claim to the pharao's throne (e.g. being devine and thus only able to reproduce with other devines; some incest anyone?), so i have no problem to call her an egyptian.
urns were still placed in elaborate graves. I'm not sure what the custom was in 1c bc Egypt, but many Hellenes were also cremated through the centuries. I wonder if it might be more likely that this tomb is the burial of some wealthy Alexandrian, but if its the burial site of Kleopatra, all the better. And if its high profile, we might actually see something within the next couple of years. If its just an elite tomb, it may be years before the first good quality excavation reports.
Oh, and Hellenistic monarchs had little compulsion about remarriage if the need arose. usually the need arose by means of assassination, childbirth, or some new treaty that required that the prince/king get rid of his first wife and marry the daughter/niece/etc of the enemy king.
EDIT: quick web search yields this (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080526/lf_afp/egyptarchaeology): apparently Hawass no longer believes they are tracking a tomb at all in the tunnels below a temple complex. Still, they found a nice bronze statue and a marble head and some coins, among other things. I'd rather not read about Hawass running Egyptian archaeology like its a treasure hunt for Kleopatra's tomb.
keravnos
05-27-2008, 21:22
My dream is of a papyri cache being found somewhere in the desert.
It could contain a complete book or more, one of those other than the 5% of Ancient greek literature that we now have. If there is one place that this can happen, it is Egypt. The chances are slim, I know, but as I said, it is a dream.
I just hope that the archaeologists there don't consider themselves Indiana Jones.
eggthief
05-27-2008, 21:27
What, didn't my sarcasm and lack of respect for authority tell you anything?
U are way to good at english to be a 15 year old Dutch kid, no offence though.
The first day MSN.nl came with new that's actually important. Like we care for the "ten most gay cars".
They have interesting stuff sometimes, of course it depends on your interests, but yeah most of it is garbage like the car thing, or uninteresting details about celebitries.
General Appo
05-27-2008, 21:37
U are way to good at english to be a 15 year old Dutch kid, no offence though.
Yes, young people have no experience with english, after all its not like they grew up with the internet often writing more in english then in their own language. That is why I who is even younger then Hax makes so many grammatic mistakes, for which I must most humbly apologise, dear friend.
Of course, Hax´s grammar is no doubt worsened by his Dutch origins, as it is comon knowledge that the Dutch are appaling at grammar. Is it not so, dear friend?
Just a little article I just found on the Dutch site (I tried to translate it as good as possible). Looks like a typical hysteric response on a newfound grave, along with all the typical ideas of Egypt. I wonder how long it will take before everyone realizes she was a Macedonian and I really doubt whether she was married to Gaius Iulius Caesar.
Link to the article (in Dutch) can be found here (http://frontpage.fok.nl/nieuws/93011/-Graftombe-Cleopatra-mogelijk-gevonden.html).
am I the only one who sees something stupid and ironic here (i.e Frank Godio)?
eggthief
05-27-2008, 22:23
Yes, young people have no experience with english, after all its not like they grew up with the internet often writing more in english then in their own language. That is why I who is even younger then Hax makes so many grammatic mistakes, for which I must most humbly apologise, dear friend.
Of course, Hax´s grammar is no doubt worsened by his Dutch origins, as it is comon knowledge that the Dutch are appaling at grammar. Is it not so, dear friend?
Well Im 17, I grew up with the internet and english tv programs as well. Im the best of my class when it comes down to english ( though actually verbal speaking isnt my best side), so yeah I find it quite weird, but then again I dont know Hax. I've met a genius on world of warcraft once who was 15 as well, so cant really judge him on that. And on the other hand I dont know how concentrated he is while he types here, Im ussually typing with one hand and use the other one to stuff food in my mouth or scratch myself wherever I please.
Oh btw, u wrote then while it had to be than :beam:, but I got no problem with people not being good at english and no, I dont correct everyone on their mistakes u were just an exception. My point just was that Hax is really, but then I mean really good at english, better than me in any case, which in my eyes isnt nothing for Dutch people.
I would not be to pedantic about that. Yes, she was from makedonian ancestry but that has been some generations ago and afaik the ptolemies didn't need long to adapt some native cultural aspects to support the claim to the pharao's throne (e.g. being devine and thus only able to reproduce with other devines; some incest anyone?), so i have no problem to call her an egyptian.
Actually, since they were "incestuous", they continued a fullblood Makedonike line, so that would make her a Macedonian. As for the taking in of native aspects, I'm not really sure about that (except for the Pharaohs being divine and all).
U are way to good at english to be a 15 year old Dutch kid, no offence though.
Actually, I'm a 42 year old paedophile, heh heh.
eggthief
05-27-2008, 23:22
Oh in that case, wanna meet irl? U said u live in Driebergen so I can be at your house in 20 minutes. I'll be wearing socks and nothing else, see u then hun.
delablake
05-27-2008, 23:32
this Mr. Zahi Sawass is highly debatable. He is known to care more for his purse and his ambition than for archeology itself, a self-proclaimed "Star".
I think he is a charlatan.
this Mr. Zahi Sawass is highly debatable. He is known to care more for his purse and his ambition than for archeology itself, a self-proclaimed "Star".
I think he is a charlatan.
well he was educated by Charlatans. there was this society of Pyramid loonies who made a scholarship, and presented it to, among other future Egyptologists, Dr.Zahi Hawas. Ironically, he is now their greatest foe (they are the ones who say that the pyramids were built by Aliens in 10000BC who seeded the planet with non black poeple-a highly racist group to my knowledge.) the story behind it is such a long and infinite pile of BS that I'd have to write a book on it.
Oh in that case, wanna meet irl? U said u live in Driebergen so I can be at your house in 20 minutes. I'll be wearing socks and nothing else, see u then hun.
Sure, lemme call Intrepid (he lives 200 metres away), and I'll unpack my Rhomphaia, to see what can be done about your Gaesatae-parts.
Yes, young people have no experience with english, after all its not like they grew up with the internet often writing more in english then in their own language. That is why I who is even younger then Hax makes so many grammatic mistakes, for which I must most humbly apologise, dear friend.
THAN! THAN!!!
Then in the sense of time is "We'll first visit the store, and then we'll go home" (when speaking of doing something and subsequently something else)
"He has a bigger Gaesatae-part than his brother" (when speaking of something that is greater than something else.
Sure, lemme call Intrepid (he lives 200 metres away), and I'll unpack my Rhomphaia, to see what can be done about your Gaesatae-parts.
THAN! THAN!!!
Then in the sense of time is "We'll first visit the store, and then we'll go home" (when speaking of doing something and subsequently something else)
"He has a bigger Gaesatae-part than his brother" (when speaking of something that is greater than something else.
this is a rare insight into the behavior of E. seleukus, known in layman's terms as "Hax": he clearly has a good-natured care for any foreign language he speaks, and shows a rare obsession with the words "then" and "than":clown: . he also hates Gaesatae as evedenced by his use of the Rhomphaia on inapropriate parts.:clown: :clown: :dizzy2:
my study is complete! now to write a paper...
anyways, the point is that anybody can fluently write and/or speak a language, any language. It requires care, patience, practice, and most of all, talking to poeple who can actually speak the language in question. knowing good english is thus not a sign of a suspicious identity, merely that he spent enough time chatting with english speakers in the forum..:yes:
conclusion: the best way to speak a foreign language (or write it) properly is by joining the guild-the EB one to be exact..
eggthief
05-28-2008, 08:20
Oh btw, u wrote then while it had to be than :beam:
THAN! THAN!!!
Then in the sense of time is "We'll first visit the store, and then we'll go home" (when speaking of doing something and subsequently something else)
"He has a bigger Gaesatae-part than his brother" (when speaking of something that is greater than something else.
Ha! I beat u to it, now I´ll expect some good head.
Oh sorry for going off topic, yeah it´d be great if this was her tomb.
Khazar_Dahvos
05-28-2008, 12:00
I'm sorry but I had to do it
I'm Chris hansen with Dateline NBC to catch a predator!!!!
here is a funny ass link
http://www.realmofdarkness.net/sounds/hansen/chrishansen-soundboard-2.htm
sorry for keeping the spam going
Zawas always claims to have found this or that, before he has even taken a decent look. Wanna bet it is far from Cleopatra VII's tomb?
I wouldn't bet it's far. Maybe it's quite close to it ;P
Im interested as to whether there are any actual archaeologists / Egyptologists participating within this discussion?
Lysimachos
05-28-2008, 17:35
Actually, since they were "incestuous", they continued a fullblood Makedonike line, so that would make her a Macedonian.
Well, of course, but that is a matter of criteria. I'd bet you can find people in the USA whose family lives there for centuries and who are still, for example, fullblood irish or spanish or italian or whatever. Does this make them Irish or American or perhaps both? Or from the EB-timeframe: is a man, whose family lived in, for example, Tarentinum and whose ancestors all were greeks, and who is born with roman citizenship a Roman, a Greek or maybe both?
So, as i said before, i'm not so pedantic with things like that as it depends on how you rate the circumstances. For me, Cleopatra is Makedon in some way and Egyptian in another. At least her ancestors lived in egypt for generations and there has to be a point where you are no foreigner anymore, don't you think ;)
Yes, young people have no experience with english, after all its not like they grew up with the internet often writing more in english then in their own language. That is why I who is even younger then Hax makes so many grammatic mistakes, for which I must most humbly apologise, dear friend.
Of course, Hax´s grammar is no doubt worsened by his Dutch origins, as it is comon knowledge that the Dutch are appaling at grammar. Is it not so, dear friend?
I see what you are are saying, but the common language for teens on the internet is not English. Its that bastardized short hand thing that so many of us old timers despise. :wink:
eggthief
05-28-2008, 18:36
I see what you are are saying, but the common language for teens on the internet is not English. Its that bastardized short hand thing that so many of us old timers despise. :wink:
Wot r u talkin bout?
Strategos Alexandros
05-28-2008, 18:46
LOL XD
What does XD actually mean?
eggthief
05-28-2008, 19:02
its an emote like :D... but its kk tht u old1es dunt wnna talk l1ek this cuz I can talk a b1t l1ek old ppl, lolwtfbbq.
Elmetiacos
05-28-2008, 19:06
U are way to good at english to be a 15 year old Dutch kid, no offence though.
Nah, he's way too good at English to be British or American. There was that joke a couple of years ago about these new citizenship tests the UK government was bringing in - it said that anyone who scored over 80% in English would be sent back to Holland.
Maion Maroneios
05-28-2008, 20:32
Not again... There isn't a single Greek I know that doesn't care about a simple name.
Anyways, the finding of the tomb is awesome news indeed! I was invited to go work in Milan two years from now, but what I wanted was to go to Egypt. *sniff*
A simple name? If you, my friend, was a Greek yourself, you would understand. Just beacause not all of us have the same history, doesn't mean we shouldn't care about this matter:yes:
Nah, he's way too good at English to be British or American. There was that joke a couple of years ago about these new citizenship tests the UK government was bringing in - it said that anyone who scored over 80% in English would be sent back to Holland.
I will Not be sent to Holland, even if I average 95% (which I do)..Texas is already bad enough, I don't want to risk it with Holland (it may be good,, it may be bad, but I don't want to know).
Ibrahim by god is going to be 1/2 palestinian 1/2 Ohioan:whip: :whip:, which means he can be in Kuwait, the US, Canada, and Palestine, and Jordan, no where else (except as a visit)
General Appo
05-28-2008, 20:58
A simple name? If you, my friend, was a Greek yourself, you would understand. Just beacause not all of us have the same history, doesn't mean we shouldn't care about this matter:yes:
Now now, that´s the sort of attitude that breads wars.
Truly, what does it matter what someone calls themselves? Just chill out man, and think of something nice, like flowers. :hippie:
Elmetiacos
05-28-2008, 22:18
A simple name? If you, my friend, was a Greek yourself, you would understand. Just beacause not all of us have the same history, doesn't mean we shouldn't care about this matter:yes:
Greece should change its name! Problem solved!
:idea2:
Maion Maroneios
05-29-2008, 10:23
Greece should change its name! Problem solved!
:idea2:
:inquisitive:
Guys, discussing linguistics is fine, but don't turn it into yet another Makedonia/Greece whatever nationalistic discussion, okay?
okay.
well, has Zahi recanted?
Guys, discussing linguistics is fine, but don't turn it into yet another Makedonia/Greece whatever nationalistic discussion, okay?
It really cracks me up how passionate these folks get over their histories and how they tend to come here.
Strategos Alexandros
05-29-2008, 19:44
The really extreme ones don't come here that often though. If they did there would certainly be a fair few more flame wars.
Spartan198
05-31-2008, 03:10
but its kk tht u old1es dunt wnna talk l1ek this cuz I can talk a b1t l1ek old ppl, lolwtfbbq.
Huh? What did you just say?! :dizzy2:
forget what he said! check this out:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080529/sc_nm/brazil_tribe_dc
new-completely unknown tribe...until now (oh and they look like demons..)
General Appo
05-31-2008, 08:01
Huh? What did you just say?! :dizzy2:
but its kk tht u old1es dunt wnna talk l1ek this cuz I can talk a b1t l1ek old ppl, lolwtfbbq.
=
I have no great problem with the fact that more senior persons (such as yourself) sometimes do not wish to conversate in this manner because I am somewhat experienced in your style of conversation, laughing out loud what the fu*k barbeque.
eggthief
05-31-2008, 10:13
I guess u could have left the last part out when u were translating though. Anyway that was if not nearly, exactly what I meant. Its not how I ussually talk on forums. The only things that I wont change are using the words "u", "gonna" and "gotta".
General Appo
05-31-2008, 10:37
u r dum, im gonna hit u hard.
Now, lets get back on topic shall we?
Im interested as to whether there are any actual archaeologists / Egyptologists participating within this discussion?
I'm a student of Archaeology, if that matters. :P
I merely took an introduction class to Egyptian Archeology last semester. (Yes I passed) And I'll probably take a few more Archeology Classes. I study History though.
I merely took an introduction class to Egyptian Archeology last semester. (Yes I passed) And I'll probably take a few more Archeology Classes. I study History though.
thats cool: Where do you study??
I have just finished my degree in Egyptian Archaeology from Liverpool University.
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