View Full Version : Laser guided stones
Negative
10-21-2002, 21:40
Is it just me or does it seem like stones from catapults seem to home in on generals? Quite often when I fire at the generals formation the general is hit by the second or third stone. I know those Germans are engineering geniuses, but this is rediculous. It's funny though to think about it. "Follow me men! On to victory! Don't charge until you see the whites of their... BOOM!"
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It's not the size of the army that matters. It's how you use it.
yep, i had it with my general once. annoying as hell. if it were the ai general, it would have been a different story though http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif there have been more comments about it, too.
solypsist
10-21-2002, 22:23
for some reason the generals do tend to get it more often than not. but then, my artillary often has a hard time hitting anything at all, so it sort of evens out.
anymapkoku
10-21-2002, 22:24
This guy I was playing killed his own general towards the end of the battle after he was already losing. Wolf Paolai I think was his name.
Baron Nogood
10-21-2002, 23:50
The magnetic head scenario was debated in .com, the end conclusion was that generals are more disposed to receiving a rock in the head than most...even though he probably wasn't the intended target...boing...boing...boom.
Artilary would be better if you could specify a bounce site for the projectile as it almost always overshoots. Also, mangonels are a bit pants for destroying castles i have found, I prefer the older types, at least they have more than a 1° Fire arc.
Lord Romulous
10-22-2002, 06:10
Quote
Artilary would be better if you could specify a bounce site for the projectile as it almost always overshoots. Also, mangonels are a bit pants for destroying castles i have found, I prefer the older types, at least they have more than a 1° Fire arc.[/B][/QUOTE]
this is a great idea. you should be able to target arty where you want it. not just at the troops but at the ground two.
fun to see how many units you can hit before the bouncing stops.
the stone bouncing over the target and the relativly small damage when it does hit is why i find arty to be utterly useless except for the occasional gen killer or in siege warfare.
in fact the only time i find the stones to be effective is when they hit a unit near the end of trajectory. ie so the stone kinda rolls rather than bounces. like the idea of a 10 ton boulder squashing 10 or so spears.
btw where the heck did they find all those boulders.
and why cant we load grape shot or buckets of stones shot into our cannons and mags and trebs etc. grape shot would be more effective than one giant boulder.
Boondock Saint
10-22-2002, 06:14
You mean u guys dont have lazer guides smart stones dropped from stealth catapults? I know I do ... sometimes I have the special forces dropped in by blackhawk cavalry ..
uh .. yea ...
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.com died ... so I am here ...
Veiny Eyeball
10-22-2002, 07:46
Catapults are pretty horribly accurate. I've killed more men with a single catapult before than 2 serpentines combined.
cannons are useless to me, i prefer well placed catapults if i want to do some general slaying, but personally, i tend to steer away from this, as i prefer the challenge of beating them in hand to hand... (unles it is in SP and an enemy king)
i was lat playing sunday night. english, normal , early.
just starting to go for the french. nothing much in my army, 2 long bow, 3 clansman, 1 spear, 1 peasent, 1 heir, my king & 2 catapults.
french out numbered me, but within the first couple of seconds of the game, i killed the french king with my catapults! had fun mopping up the enemy afterwards
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If he moves kill him! if he doesnt, kill him anyway! whahahaha!
Prodigal
10-22-2002, 17:43
Nope not just you Negative, I've lost 3 generals this way, I always keep them at the back, to avoid getting them killed in the early moments of combat, but this doesn't make the slightest bit of difference when the first shot of the battle kills the one man who can hold your whole force together.
I mention 3 generals, after the third I leave them at the starting point until I can scope out the enemy artillery, & send some cav. units to sort out the pesky critters. That & hiding behind hills are the only sure fire methods of avoiding the whole situation I've found.
Oh btw, how many times have you bombarded the enemy with cat's & not hit a damn thing?
I don't know but it feels like catapults are really useful on defence. If I have three of them to back up a spear/archer line and they are about valour 3 (due to a good general), they seem to have a pretty devastating effect on the enemy. In terms of casualties and I think lower morale too.
This is what I read in an earlier thread on catapults and I may just be being taken in by the sound and fury, but my experience seems to back up that earlier report. I'll try to check the casualty figures I get, although this is often impossible as I usually withdraw the crews when they are out of ammo.
Haven't noticed the general=target effect, although I'll take care to avoid it! I do aim any ballistas at the enemy general, of course, so I would not be surprised if the AI does the same with its catapults.
Catapults completely ignore hitpoints.
I HIGHLY suspect that artillery is not HOMING in on generals, but rather that when it DOES hit its target unit and happens to hit the general, it's such a nice surprise that it begins to SEEM as if there's a homing effect.
Say that, when you target a particular unit with artillery on a defensive stand, you kill 10% of the unit in a particular battle (depending on the size of the army you may kill a bunch of other men when you miss, but that's beside the point). The enemy general will then die in 1 out of 10 battles.
I think that's about the frequency of general deaths when I use artiillery. The fact that it's so pleasantly surprising makes it seem more probable than it is.
Artillery definitely doesn't pay off in kill ratios. Yea, it's great when you're on a mountain against a huge army in a defensive stand, but a unit of arbalests will be even greater -- and you'll be able to keep shooting after the melee begins. So if artillery pays off, it's going to have to pay off due to the fact that it ignores HP.
I think it's those BIG BANNERS them generals carry around with them.
I rarely use arty. It seems I either cover the AI General in dirt, or hit 80 yards off to the left and behind the target.
querulously
10-23-2002, 01:16
As the artillery target the centre of the front line of a unit and that is where the general is , he is the likeliest to die.
It is more likely the unhistorical prevalance of seige weapons in combat that is causing this effect mixed with the long time that passes before the AI arranges itself and attacks whilst the AI constantly rearranges itself. When the player is able to use the artillery he can ofcause fire it to his heart's content. When the AI is on the defensive on higher difficulty levels they will indeed benefit from the missile firing effect where the AI units fire few and well (hence their archers tend to last longer than the player with the same start ammo).
I've noticed this more with cannon but the AI will often change its line of advance to avoid bombardment. So even if the arty never scores a hit it has done its job by prodding the AI to put its head in the meat grinder. Something to think about when setting up on defense.
On the offensive, I manuever to bring the Ai away from its guns,it doesn't take much, and then send a light cav on an end around.
If you use the terrain and a well timed charge you can usually destroy them and get some of his forces to give chase leaving his line stretched and depleted. Another option is to send a worthless heir on a more direct line of approach. One way or another you'll be successful.
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He moves, you move first.
[This message has been edited by DojoRat (edited 10-22-2002).]
Keep in mind that the accuracy of artillery is greatly affected by valor. A 0 valor artillery piece is only good for hitting castle walls. Only a 4 valor piece will be accurate enough to hit individual units on the field with percision.
Toledo's Maverick
10-23-2002, 08:07
In one battle, my king was in the middle of charging downhill towards a bunch of archers, and was killed by the first shot from a catapult. he was in loose formation too
I don't find AI catapults a problem. Their army always leaves then when they move into a stronger position and they are the first unit I send my light horses to kill. Problem solved. Never lost a general to a catapult yet....touch wood.
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Don't be in a rush to die!!
Prodigal
10-23-2002, 18:40
interesting about the cat's & valour. Another good defensive thing is that if you get an attacker coming straight at you in deep unit ranks, the shot bounces through them, so you can hurt 2 or 3 different units with the one shot. Do the sepentines shot bounce? Been so long since I used one I can't remeber, abyway that maybe the reason the cat's do more damage.
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